Popular Post StriderHiryu Posted 8 December 2023 Popular Post Share Posted 8 December 2023 7 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 2 hours ago, Gamble92 said: When the centre back is keeping hold of it with no forward thinking approach. The only idea being if we have it, they don't. Overly simple way of explaining it…. That’s not the reason Vesty holds onto the ball, he holds onto it to entice the forward players to press, so he can then beat said press with a pass. It’s not a case of just holding onto the ball for the sake of it, it’s holding onto the ball to force stubborn opposition to step up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamble92 Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 Just now, Pliskin said: Overly simple way of explaining it…. That’s not the reason Vesty holds onto the ball, he holds onto it to entice the forward players to press, so he can then beat said press with a pass. It’s not a case of just holding onto the ball for the sake of it, it’s holding onto the ball to force stubborn opposition to step up. It's supposed to be that but any time we score is rarely because we've made anyone come out to him and we have played round them. It's come mainly from other teams having the ball and deciding to come at us and us breaking with pace. Against Sheffield Wednesday there was even one move where they did exactly that to us. Held the ball at centre back and played all the way through us. We didn't manage that once all night. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillehamring Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 1 hour ago, promised land said: Last time I looked Plymouth was in Devon, has it moved then? Well, i'm guessing Plymouth is the go to for most cornish football fans, can't be much fun be Truro fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 3 minutes ago, Gamble92 said: It's supposed to be that but any time we score is rarely because we've made anyone come out to him and we have played round them. It's come mainly from other teams having the ball and deciding to come at us and us breaking with pace. Against Sheffield Wednesday there was even one move where they did exactly that to us. Held the ball at centre back and played all the way through us. We didn't manage that once all night. Well…. No…. I mean unless you’re suggesting we’re supposed to score every goal starting with Vesty? Sheffield Wednesday was just a shocker in general, we played crap all over the park. I’m struggling to see what your point is? Is it the pace of the play? Or just the fact Vesty and Mads will hold onto the ball when there’s no obvious pass on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamble92 Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 Just now, Pliskin said: Well…. No…. I mean unless you’re suggesting we’re supposed to score every goal starting with Vesty? Sheffield Wednesday was just a shocker in general, we played crap all over the park. I’m struggling to see what your point is? Is it the pace of the play? Or just the fact Vesty and Mads will hold onto the ball when there’s no obvious pass on? Just the amount of time we spend with the ball at the back is obviously also based on the theory that the opposing team don't have the ball for even more phases. If we played a more traditional style we'd obviously lose the ball a lot more. It's built on statistics but it evidently isn't pleasing on the eye unless you have world class players going forward like Pep does. Yet again, it's not a criticism. I don't see why we have such a black and white way of debating on here. It's like because I've said I think it's something that isn't spoken about enough that I'm slating Maresca. I do think we could do a lot more to create chances more frequently with this team and I do think another way of playing would be even more suited to us in games like the really poor teams at the bottom and the top teams. Against the middle of the road teams I think this tactic is perfect. If not entertaining to watch at times. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Gamble92 said: Just the amount of time we spend with the ball at the back is obviously also based on the theory that the opposing team don't have the ball for even more phases. If we played a more traditional style we'd obviously lose the ball a lot more. It's built on statistics but it evidently isn't pleasing on the eye unless you have world class players going forward like Pep does. Yet again, it's not a criticism. I don't see why we have such a black and white way of debating on here. It's like because I've said I think it's something that isn't spoken about enough that I'm slating Maresca. I do think we could do a lot more to create chances more frequently with this team and I do think another way of playing would be even more suited to us in games like the really poor teams at the bottom and the top teams. Against the middle of the road teams I think this tactic is perfect. If not entertaining to watch at times. I’m not slating you, I just wanted to know what your grievance was. I don’t disagree with you, the play is too slow sometimes, and we do lack creativity. My personal opinion, is that the two heigh 8 positions aren’t dynamic enough at the moment. And winks is the only player who really shows for the ball when the CB’s have it. You’re not wrong, you do need a high calibre of player to ply this style properly. I would argue the holding onto the ball for long periods of time is more to do with expecting the movement to be more dynamic, I think your point of not having sufficient quality is valid, especially in the midfield as a collective is the issue, rather than Vesty. I think the problem is with Maresca, is this is his style, it’s all the plans rolled into one, and when it’s not working it looks dreadful, Man City v Villa is case in point. Edited 8 December 2023 by Pliskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gamble92 Posted 8 December 2023 Popular Post Share Posted 8 December 2023 8 minutes ago, Pliskin said: I’m not slating you, I just wanted to know what your grievance was. I don’t disagree with you, the play is too slow sometimes, and we do lack creativity. My personal opinion, is that the two heigh 8 positions aren’t dynamic enough at the moment. And winks is the only player who really shows for the ball when the CB’s have it. You’re not wrong, you do need a high calibre of player to ply this style properly. I would argue the holding onto the ball for long periods of time is more to do with expecting the movement to be more dynamic, I think your point of not having sufficient quality is valid, especially in the midfield as a collective is the issue, rather than Vesty. I think the problem is with Maresca, is this is his style, it’s all the plans rolled into one, and when it’s not working it looks dreadful, Man City v Villa is case in point. Yeah Man City aren't a great watch sometimes at all. I don't think that gets said enough because of the Pep love in. I just wish there was more obvious examples of it being the system getting us the results. Some will reply the table is the proof but we are just that far ahead man for man and the amount of games where we have just taken our chances and the other team haven't taken (often better ones) has proved that. You can't hand on heart say games like Coventry, Rotherham, Cardiff etc are because of a tactical masterclass. I also don't see any examples so far that when we play so called better teams who come at us more that we suddenly start utilising that way of drawing players out and playing through them. We were clueless against Leeds. That's exactly where I'd expect the months of playing like this to come to fruition. No one can tell me the Southampton game, that was just full of errors and us counter attacking, was an example of it either. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillehamring Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 37 minutes ago, Gamble92 said: Just the amount of time we spend with the ball at the back is obviously also based on the theory that the opposing team don't have the ball for even more phases. If we played a more traditional style we'd obviously lose the ball a lot more. It's built on statistics but it evidently isn't pleasing on the eye unless you have world class players going forward like Pep does. Yet again, it's not a criticism. I don't see why we have such a black and white way of debating on here. It's like because I've said I think it's something that isn't spoken about enough that I'm slating Maresca. I do think we could do a lot more to create chances more frequently with this team and I do think another way of playing would be even more suited to us in games like the really poor teams at the bottom and the top teams. Against the middle of the road teams I think this tactic is perfect. If not entertaining to watch at times. And yet it seems to be hard to find a thread that doesn't accuse our current way of playing to be boring or slow, or unpleasant to watch or not entertaining. What bothers me is that, as you do here, these posts often seem to also accuse of not creating enough chances/scoring enough goals - and yet we rank highly in both categories. At the end of the day we have to keep in mind that, with only a couple of exceptions, the pace of our games is dictated by the attitude of the opposition. put simply, it's impossible to play high octane football when teams sit so deep our back four spend most of the game inside or close to the oppositions half. It just can't happen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillehamring Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 21 minutes ago, Gamble92 said: Yeah Man City aren't a great watch sometimes at all. I don't think that gets said enough because of the Pep love in. I just wish there was more obvious examples of it being the system getting us the results. Some will reply the table is the proof but we are just that far ahead man for man and the amount of games where we have just taken our chances and the other team haven't taken (often better ones) has proved that. You can't hand on heart say games like Coventry, Rotherham, Cardiff etc are because of a tactical masterclass. I also don't see any examples so far that when we play so called better teams who come at us more that we suddenly start utilising that way of drawing players out and playing through them. We were clueless against Leeds. That's exactly where I'd expect the months of playing like this to come to fruition. No one can tell me the Southampton game, that was just full of errors and us counter attacking, was an example of it either. You mean literally our 1st, 3rd and 4th games with a new manager , new system and half a new team? Of course they weren't tactical masterclasses - as enzo said around this time (maybe even later): we're 20% of the way into learning the new system. And learning it, mind, not mastering it, learning it - i'd be surprised if, even now, he's taught them 100% of his system, certainly we are a long way from mastering it. There has to be a point where you take a step back and say 'credit where credit's due' - it's not great but it's working and sometimes, when it works, it's just terrific this is how it's done properly - the nacho goal is a slow steady build up, seems like it's going nowhere and then... Bam! a quick incisive attacking move, and then the final goal shows how we can break up an opposition attack and counter through a body of defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Decker Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 1 hour ago, Pliskin said: I’m not slating you, I just wanted to know what your grievance was. I don’t disagree with you, the play is too slow sometimes, and we do lack creativity. My personal opinion, is that the two heigh 8 positions aren’t dynamic enough at the moment. And winks is the only player who really shows for the ball when the CB’s have it. You’re not wrong, you do need a high calibre of player to ply this style properly. I would argue the holding onto the ball for long periods of time is more to do with expecting the movement to be more dynamic, I think your point of not having sufficient quality is valid, especially in the midfield as a collective is the issue, rather than Vesty. I think the problem is with Maresca, is this is his style, it’s all the plans rolled into one, and when it’s not working it looks dreadful, Man City v Villa is case in point. Agreed, on the lack of options and players creating angles when we have the ball at hand back. Winks is definitely the exception, often this causes him to have take the ball in such tight areas. I'd like to see the wide players offering more, either shorter and to feet or challenging in behind. Our build up needs to have one touch play to open up the spaces and break the lines, otherwise the defence just slides across. All of the above is starting to happen, it's new, hopefully we will continue to improve in time. However, I am impressed with the plan and the approach. We will win the league I am sure, but will we master the system in time to play against strong opposition every week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 8 December 2023 Share Posted 8 December 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ian S said: Yes it’s just terrible at the moment, let’s try and get Rodgers back as things were so much better. When did i say its terrible you numpty, im fact i stated happy days. Stop trying too hard to be clever. Plus i was not a fan of Brendan. Edited 8 December 2023 by Dr The Singh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. James Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 6 hours ago, Lillehamring said: Well, i'm guessing Plymouth is the go to for most cornish football fans, can't be much fun be Truro fan. Speaking as a Leicester born, Plymouth resident I can tell you categorically that " most" football fans born down here support the obvious..Arsenal, Chelsea and Spuds! Strangely they all support England though 🤔 and often say "well I'm English enni"...hmm.. Guess for me I don't have a choice, I'm a Leicester lad, ergo that is my team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damolcfc Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 Our 1st game today of the season Boys birthday Our wedding anniversary Staying at hotel next door Can I have your socks for later please Winks 😉 board painted Will miss the cat 🐈 😆 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnup Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 Genuinely have no idea who starts hoping for .. Mads JJ Wout Vesty Hamza Winks Wilf KDH Fatawu Cannon or Vards Yunus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 What can we expect from Plymouth? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 12 minutes ago, Lionator said: What can we expect from Plymouth? Quick attacks. They're unlikely to park the bus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fazzyfox Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 39 minutes ago, Lionator said: What can we expect from Plymouth? Comical Accents 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxesWalk Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 40 minutes ago, Lionator said: What can we expect from Plymouth? They are a good team in the transition, could be really dangerous if we lose the ball in the wrong areas. We should have too much for them, but all depends on how effective we can be with the huge amounts of possession we will likely have here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod hero Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 5 hours ago, J. James said: Speaking as a Leicester born, Plymouth resident I can tell you categorically that " most" football fans born down here support the obvious..Arsenal, Chelsea and Spuds! Strangely they all support England though 🤔 and often say "well I'm English enni"...hmm.. Guess for me I don't have a choice, I'm a Leicester lad, ergo that is my team. My mrs is from Plymouth and all her lad mates support Liverpool and argyle is their second team. really odd place as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxinNotts Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 I’d go with: Hermansen. Faes. Coady. Vestergaard. Hamza Winks. Praet(lol!) KDH Fatawu. Daka(lol!) Mavididi Ward. Souttar. Nelson Ndidi. Alves Akgun. McAteer Albrighton Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElusiveEd Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 7 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said: I’d go with: Hermansen. Faes. Coady. Vestergaard. Hamza Winks. Praet(lol!) KDH Fatawu. Daka(lol!) Mavididi Ward. Souttar. Nelson Ndidi. Alves Akgun. McAteer Albrighton Cannon The main reason I like this is that Nacho is nowhere to be seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCJohn Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 1 hour ago, mod hero said: My mrs is from Plymouth and all her lad mates support Liverpool and argyle is their second team. really odd place as well I nearly went to Uni down there, liked the place to be fair. This bit of supporting the big clubs is just odd though. I suppose you could say the same for anywhere. Literally having no connection with the place and ‘supporting’ the team. Makes me laugh when people say they support Liverpool and Man City etc and when you roll your eyes at them, watching them try to scrabble for a connection to there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volpeazzurro Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 2 hours ago, Lionator said: What can we expect from Plymouth? They have an old manager named Drake and might park the submarine in the first half. They're guilty of sending the first boat people to America. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Falling Foxes Posted 9 December 2023 Share Posted 9 December 2023 40 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said: I nearly went to Uni down there, liked the place to be fair. This bit of supporting the big clubs is just odd though. I suppose you could say the same for anywhere. Literally having no connection with the place and ‘supporting’ the team. Makes me laugh when people say they support Liverpool and Man City etc and when you roll your eyes at them, watching them try to scrabble for a connection to there There was a study carried-out, although this was some years ago now, that found only 65% (iirc), supported their home town club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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