Enzo Maresca frustration boils over as he says 'moment there's doubt about the idea, I will leave'

[LCFCJohn]

9 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

No, entitlement is about having your cake and eating it.  Every fan expects or at least hopes to win every week.  The problem we have here is that we are winning most weeks and they're still not happy because we aren't winning the way they'd like us to win ; they're assuming that because we're leicester we should be winning by multiple goals, that we shouldn't concede goals.

I just see it differently (which is fine and allowed).

 

I think some people just don’t understand it. It took me a bit to get used to the inverted full back tactic. I think others don’t have the patience to watch the passing moves. Others have come from previous eras of football and struggle to adapt for this season. Others just have a preference. It doesn’t even make them wrong. I also don’t think this equates to entitled (in most cases).

 

However, if you’re going to attend the games, don’t take this baggage with you and get behind the team. It’s not good sitting in the stands moaning and grumbling. 

[MPH]

45 minutes ago, andyred61 said:

Switch on to Man City v Burnley tonight. Apart from when City score  the stadium is silent . I will leave it to you all to draw your own comparisons and conclusions based on your own preconceived views on what football is supposed to be about

 

You’ve got to hold and give it but at the right time.. 

You can be slow or fast but you must get to the line..

They’ll always hit you and hurt you.. Defend and attack!

Those only one way to beat them.. get round the back!

Edited 31 January by MPH

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

 I was literally saying what is the ideal. I never said we should expect it all the time. You’re just putting words into mouths again! 
 

But saying what is ideal and then saying you don't expect to get it is rather pointless.  I'd like a villa in the south of france but i don't expect to get it - i could post this and most people wouldn't care, a few people would brand me a knob for posting it - so the best thing to do is not to mention it.

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, winteriscoming said:

The ones which spring to mind are when we’ve been 1 up and fvcked it up second half. Ipswich twice and Sheffield Wednesday.  Lack of subs especially the Ipswich home game. We made 2 changes 10 mins to go in that game while Ipswich bought 4 or 5 on second half. I think we could of brought Coady on and played 3 cbs. Taking cannon off second half against cov was a difficult choice as down to 10 but I couldn’t understand it. No one upfront to go to. 
Got my tin hat ready. 

All reasonable points - but none of them relate to the style of play, which is what is being questioned here.  What, reasonably, could maresca do or change to make the way we play less 'boring' without lowering the standard of our performances or jeopardising our sky high win rate?

[coolhandfox]

Sad this thread is getting more action then the post match thread of a good win.

[Chrysalis]

I think there is elements of this thread evolving into saying people who have criticised dont understand things or are entitled which is why initially I only made my small comment.

 

Of course at the game, people should be positively supporting the team, and in the past 2 years or so the stadium does have an issue where our fans dont seem to be positive when we drawing or losing.  I dont think thats anti enzo its just a problem thats developed at the ground.

 

There is nothing wrong with identifying flaws in the way we play and being concerned that when we play higher level opposition they wont give us the luxury of needing 20 passes to score a goal, and in particular when its given away at the back we will get punished.  I do support enzo but he will be forced to adapt after promotion, because we not buying him a 500 million pound squad thats capable of what he wants.

Now enzo somehow might make it work the way he wants in the EPL, if he does I will praise him for it.

What is interesting some people cant tell the difference from when we playing with intention to score, and intention to just keep the ball.

 

I have seen games where the passing is not a build up to forward play, its just to keep the ball and possession padding (usually on 1-0 leads).  I have also seen games where we passing in a way to find space to get the ball forward, and there is people who cant tell the difference between the two.  It is what it is.  But if I come across someone who doesnt agree with me, I usually listen to their thoughts and respect their opinion.

 

Enzo I can understand being frustrated on the negative ground atmosphere, but he needs to accept not everyone will see him as a football god.  Every manager has to accept that.

Edited 31 January by Chrysalis

[moseeds]

21 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

but this is exactly the problem - why isn't it good enough?  Or do you mean, pretty enough or sexy enough; and for that matter what is enough - our goal difference is higher than the total goals scored by 10 teams in the league; last season in the entire championship only 5 teams scored more goals than we've scored so far - surely that suggests that from a quality point of view, we are not just 'good enough' we are exceptional. 

 

You say that you're not expecting of 90 minutes of free flowing football, then complain that there wasn't enough quality - how can you happily expect one thing and be dissatisfied when that outcome occurs?  Can't you just be grateful that when it mattered we played some great football, and when we weren't setting the game on fire we were doing what we needed to do to prevent the opposition from scoring - isn't that the natural way of any football game?

 

- your statement is everything that is wrong about the perception of what maresca has achieved.

Good point that. I'm fairly sure theres an element of 'tiktokification' going on here with some football fans who perhaps don't or haven't watched many 'normal' football games. They've been brought up on a diet of rapid super-highlights from Messi, unfortunately daka falling over ain't going to cut it. So when confronted with reality - a 90 minute game in which 30 minutes is spent collecting the ball from the sidelines - and the rest of it spent trying to prevent the ball from going out, then of course the game will look boring.

[StriderHiryu]

31 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Maybe we are guilty of romanticising counter attacking football in comparision to possession based football a bit too much due to 2015-16.

I'd argue that the Maresca / De Zerbi style is to counter-attack whilst having possession. Look at the first goal against Swansea again. We hold the ball until the spaces appear and then for the goal we have a 2 on 1 against their keeper.

 

The end product looks like a counter-attacking goal, but was created through controlled possession! That's why the style is kind of genius in my opinion. All the advantages of possession (control, stability) with the upsides of counter-attacks (clear-cut chances, explosive moves).

 

 

 

[The_77]

1 hour ago, andyred61 said:

Switch on to Man City v Burnley tonight. Apart from when City score  the stadium is silent . I will leave it to you all to draw your own comparisons and conclusions based on your own preconceived views on what football is supposed to be about

Or flip on Atleti vs. Rayo, where Simeone didn’t play very exciting tactics (surprise) but the Atleti fans still push the team and create an atmosphere. 

[ARM1968]

49 minutes ago, Rossiter said:

Not sure who he was referring to really. Could be fans. Could be board. Could be players. He's on a mission. Has a very clear strategy and wants support to reach his (and our) goal of promotion.

Yes of course he does and that is fine. What isn’t fine is threatening to quit if people don’t support him. Seemed to me he was referring to fans which is ludicrous IF so. Players should support his vision anyway, he’s the boss. The board make their own decisions and that’s between them. 
 

It’s ok having a vision and a plan, but it has to be based in reality and reality is we, as fans, like exciting football. We love winning but we know what boring is. 

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

We love winning but we know what boring is. 

And WE should only speak for ourselves, not co-opt everyone else into our opinion.

[ARM1968]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

And WE should only speak for ourselves, not co-opt everyone else into our opinion.

Oh god my conscience doth arrive with words of wisdom. You’re right of course. Thank you for your sobering interjection. However I think we DO all know what exciting is, or at least the majority do. 

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, ARM1968 said:

Oh god my conscience doth arrive with words of wisdom. You’re right of course. Thank you for your sobering interjection. However I think we DO all know what exciting is, or at least the majority do. 

The problem is.... your threshold of tolerance will differ from mine, and the next man's.... I just think it is wiser to speak only for yourself. I find all this winning pretty exciting, personally. 

 

And to be a bit naughty (just to make my point) I think WE all know that we have some absolute morons amongst our fanbase, with the attention span of a very tetchy goldfish that's been starved of cocaine.

 

For clarity, I'm not aiming this at you or the vast majority on here.

[Rossiter]

17 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Yes of course he does and that is fine. What isn’t fine is threatening to quit if people don’t support him. Seemed to me he was referring to fans which is ludicrous IF so. Players should support his vision anyway, he’s the boss. The board make their own decisions and that’s between them. 
 

It’s ok having a vision and a plan, but it has to be based in reality and reality is we, as fans, like exciting football. We love winning but we know what boring is. 

Fair enough. However, I liked what he said. Confident. Touch of arrogance perhaps. A swagger. I like it. It's what we need in my view. It's football. People in football have to back themselves....it's dog eat dog. 

[ARM1968]

18 minutes ago, Rossiter said:

Fair enough. However, I liked what he said. Confident. Touch of arrogance perhaps. A swagger. I like it. It's what we need in my view. It's football. People in football have to back themselves....it's dog eat dog. 

Absolutely agree, but don’t whine then if a few people get frustrated with your genius. 

[ARM1968]

25 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

The problem is.... your threshold of tolerance will differ from mine, and the next man's.... I just think it is wiser to speak only for yourself. I find all this winning pretty exciting, personally. 

 

And to be a bit naughty (just to make my point) I think WE all know that we have some absolute morons amongst our fanbase, with the attention span of a very tetchy goldfish that's been starved of cocaine.

 

For clarity, I'm not aiming this at you or the vast majority on here.

Good. I’m glad you cleared that up. I’m not at all starved of cocaine and happen to love  my bowl. 

Edited 31 January by ARM1968

[Aleksz]

59 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I'd argue that the Maresca / De Zerbi style is to counter-attack whilst having possession. Look at the first goal against Swansea again. We hold the ball until the spaces appear and then for the goal we have a 2 on 1 against their keeper.

 

The end product looks like a counter-attacking goal, but was created through controlled possession! That's why the style is kind of genius in my opinion. All the advantages of possession (control, stability) with the upsides of counter-attacks (clear-cut chances, explosive moves).

 

 

 

The unbearable football coaching buzzword/spiel for it is “artificial transitions” (Tifo do a great YouTube video on it Strider, I know you’re a fan). The idea is you bait your opponent in far enough by continually passing or pausing on the ball, To create space to essentially do a standard counter attack into - even though you had possession of the ball in the first place.
 

Enzo’s chum De Zerbi is a big advocate of it - I know we were having a debate in the tactics thread a few months back that Enzo is more De Zerbi than he is Pep.

 

So there are elements of counter attacking in our play, as people were saying a few pages back, it’s not just as black or white as possession football or not. 

[Foxin_Mad]

33 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

 

 

And to be a bit naughty (just to make my point) I think WE all know that we have some absolute morons amongst our fanbase, with the attention span of a very tetchy goldfish that's been starved of cocaine.

I wonder if this is why they all leave 10 minutes before the game?! Our support now is actually embarrassing, I'd rather those people who want to get back to their SUV and get home 5 minutes earlier didn't bother coming at all! The club and ground would be better for it. 

 

Enzo has done a great job, I'm still not sure this is a finished project, I think he's working with some players who have limited technical ability. We don't always put in the best performance, but we are consistently getting results and there are occasions when it clicks so of the football quick passing is great for watch, and the tactical mind games and fitness aspects are also important. 

 

[lcfcbluearmy]

54 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Yes of course he does and that is fine. What isn’t fine is threatening to quit if people don’t support him. Seemed to me he was referring to fans which is ludicrous IF so. Players should support his vision anyway, he’s the boss. The board make their own decisions and that’s between them. 
 

It’s ok having a vision and a plan, but it has to be based in reality and reality is we, as fans, like exciting football. We love winning but we know what boring is. 

I genuinely belive he was referring to the club/ players rather than fans. Basically saying that fans have there opinion but his plan is working and the club and players support him the moment they stop he will leave.

 

I don't think he was threatening to quit I think its a quote that's been made into something it isn't 

[StriderHiryu]

3 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

The unbearable football coaching buzzword/spiel for it is “artificial transitions” (Tifo do a great YouTube video on it Strider, I know you’re a fan). The idea is you bait your opponent in far enough by continually passing or pausing on the ball, To create space to essentially do a standard counter attack into - even though you had possession of the ball in the first place.
 

Enzo’s chum De Zerbi is a big advocate of it - I know we were having a debate in the tactics thread a few months back that Enzo is more De Zerbi than he is Pep.

 

So there are elements of counter attacking in our play, as people were saying a few pages back, it’s not just as black or white as possession football or not. 

Warning for everyone else: I can see this turning into a massive nerd fest!

 

The setup we use I think is genius. I was really impressed with Brighton last season for much the same reason I am impressed with Maresca. When the system works, it's incredible. Your opponent doesn't get the ball so can't harm you, but tire them out and generate high quality chances. If you stop and think about it, it's an ingenious approach to the game.

 

The only real downside I would say is that no matter how good a team is, playing out from the back always carries an element of risk. But the system itself is the response to the use of high-presses across European football. If you know that every week you are going to play against teams that press high... then it makes sense to create a team and tactic that circumvent it. The obvious solution is the more traditional counter-attack like we used in 15/16, but then you come unstuck against teams that don't attack you. And that happened before our very eyes in 2016 when teams turned up and parked the bus against us. So this style means you can beat either approach, as evidenced this season.

 

Perhaps the worrying evolution of this is that games will become more like American Football, which is almost like a Chess match but with real players. We've already had some matches like this; Preston turned up and went 451 instead of 541 that Maresca expected, and we couldn't get going at all, till half-time when he moved Ricardo back and we smashed them. Essentially, Maresca moved his Knight to a different position on board!

 

FWIW, I do feel sympathy for fans that don't like the style of play. For 99% of fans, football is about the spectacle, with a casual understanding of the nuances of the sport. In Music, some people like Rock and some people like Classic. Who is to say one is "better" than the other in terms of enjoyment?

 

However, it is sad that we have one of the most forward-thinking managers in the game in charge of the club, are smashing the division, have turned an academy player into easily the best player in the division and are blooding more and more academy players. All this whilst creating moves that are absolutely beautiful to watch! Some people will never be happy.

[fox in the sox]

2 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I wonder if this is why they all leave 10 minutes before the game?! Our support now is actually embarrassing, I'd rather those people who want to get back to their SUV and get home 5 minutes earlier didn't bother coming at all! The club and ground would be better for it. 

 

Enzo has done a great job, I'm still not sure this is a finished project, I think he's working with some players who have limited technical ability. We don't always put in the best performance, but we are consistently getting results and there are occasions when it clicks so of the football quick passing is great for watch, and the tactical mind games and fitness aspects are also important. 

 

If we leave early we get home in 1 hour and half, if we wait for the whistle it can be 3 hours. This is well after midnight for an evening kick off and we are getting to bed too late when there is work in the morning. It’s a bit harsh to say we shouldn’t go at all!

[ARM1968]

10 minutes ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

I genuinely belive he was referring to the club/ players rather than fans. Basically saying that fans have there opinion but his plan is working and the club and players support him the moment they stop he will leave.

 

I don't think he was threatening to quit I think its a quote that's been made into something it isn't 

Possibly. That’s your take. Mine is different. Who knows really. Seemed like a reaction to some of the atmosphere in the ground and the impatience of some fans. 

[Foxin_Mad]

9 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

If we leave early we get home in 1 hour and half, if we wait for the whistle it can be 3 hours. This is well after midnight for an evening kick off and we are getting to bed too late when there is work in the morning. It’s a bit harsh to say we shouldn’t go at all!

Perhaps I am being deliberately a little facetious! Obviously its each to their own, and some individual people may have a valid reason, I could understand say the family stand empty on a week night for school! But it's the sheer quantity, this is nearly 60-70% of the 30k gate leaving before 90 mins.  To be honest I find it's better to park further away from the ground and walk to my car than leave early. The amount of people that go early now, I can't believe the traffic is actually any better.

 

I stayed till the end, clapped the team and was on the m1 north by 10:30 last night. Just walk back to my car, along Welford Road past all those queueing and burning out their clutches! 

Edited 31 January by Foxin_Mad

[lcfcbluearmy]

7 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Possibly. That’s your take. Mine is different. Who knows really. Seemed like a reaction to some of the atmosphere in the ground and the impatience of some fans. 

Yes definitely that was how I took it I definitely understand how you took it as well and it seems to be how a lot of the media has taken it. Maybe I'm being too positive but I hope not and hope ot was just a small comment bring blown way out of proportion

[Mendi]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/25636114/leicester-enzo-maresca-threatens-quit-championship/