Enzo Maresca frustration boils over as he says 'moment there's doubt about the idea, I will leave'

[StriderHiryu]

8 hours ago, Gubbins said:

I do think a large part of the dissatisfaction that I and many others feel is just to do with the current stage of football evolution (God that sounds rubbish!). Not being a tactics nerd I'd often in recent years watch us fail to get past a low block or get pressed into mistakes whilst in possesion and be completely clueless about what we could do to counter these tactics.

 

I fully understand how our endless passing about in our half is supposed to eventually both draw out the low block, get past the press and eventually tire out the other team. Its proven (against poor quality opponents) to work well, sporadically it looks really good and goodness knows I can't think of another method to do it. This is probably the way most top clubs will move towards playing for the next few years.

 

However I hate it. When the opposition aren't drawn out far enough it is literally just the cbs and goalkeeper passing to each other, yes eventually itl work but it's a drag having to wait for it to happen and frustrating as all hell when we do break the press only to quite often turn around and start over again, sometimes out of necessity, sometimes seemingly not. The comparisons to chess have been made a few times on this thread and there is a reason why it's not a big spectator sport. Part of me would honestly like to give up on football as not really enjoying watching us when we're winning combined with the cheating, greed, VAR, media bias and all the other awful stuff that makes up football nowadays should be the final nail in the coffin. It's just very hard to kick a 30 year habit.

Great post! Probably the first on here that makes a great argument and explanation for the apathy towards the team and modern game. 

 

This is why I’ve always said I’ve had sympathy for people that don’t like the style. A similar analogy is heavyweight boxing. The Klitschko brothers dominated for years but were awful to watch. Fighters like Fury and Usev by contrast are way more exciting. 
 

One suggestion though, which you may or may not find changes your perspective. Try to put yourself into the players minds. Unlike Rodgers / Puel we are moving the ball to shift the block. Often times you can see the move develop and can predict when the explosion is about to happen. 

 

 

 

One more thing. I don’t get how people enjoyed hoofball from yesteryear! There was a famous game for Man United under David Moyes where they put 81 crosses into the box in one game but lost. But I think our fans would absolutely salivate at seeing that form of football 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 February by StriderHiryu

[Saxondale]

11 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I'd argue that the Maresca / De Zerbi style is to counter-attack whilst having possession. Look at the first goal against Swansea again. We hold the ball until the spaces appear and then for the goal we have a 2 on 1 against their keeper.

 

The end product looks like a counter-attacking goal, but was created through controlled possession! That's why the style is kind of genius in my opinion. All the advantages of possession (control, stability) with the upsides of counter-attacks (clear-cut chances, explosive moves).

 

 

 

This is it in a nutshell. Very astute observation. 

 

And I don’t really understand why people don’t find it exciting to watch. 
 

I’m very sorry to stereotype, but it tends to be the older generation who moan, who think that attacking football means blasting it forward at the first opportunity.

 

What is even more frustrating about this is the way that while people are - without explicitly saying it - lamenting the passing of the Ranieri counter attack, but based on an incomplete memory of what it was actually like to watch. 
 

For a start, we won the league with like 25% possession. So we spent 75% of the game just keeping our shape and - essentially - parking the bus.

 

Secondly, even when we did have possession, people only remember Mahrez’s dribbles and Vardy’s insane pace chasing down through balls. They forget the endless passing around the back between Huth, Morgan, Drinkwater and Kante that was necessary to draw the opponent out and create space for the counter attack.

[whoareyaaa]

Just now, fox in the sox said:

KDH couldn’t get in for us last season and  Winks was let go by Spurs. There is no proof that either of them are Premier League standard. Ndidi has looked better this season but he is playing against weaker opposition. He is Premier League standard but nothing new to what we had last season. As for Ricardo in midfield we would really need to wait to see if he can cut it in that position if we go up.

Most of these players have already played in Prem and will be more than capable of matching most teams under a manager that knows what he is doing and in a different system.

 

thats without any additional signings 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

We basically played the exact same football under Rodgers only we were less well drilled for large parts.

[FoxesFan#1]

It is a shame to see the fanbase divided on all issues these days, I'm all for just enjoying the moment rather than getting too concerned over the future (or too stuck in the past)

 

I don't enjoy the wider match day experience one little bit these days but once the game starts we can ignore any club led nonsense

 

I think we're lucky to have Enzo, he has papered over the cracks ravine that can re-appear very easily and in rapid fashion. even as quickly as next season and then we'd have something to moan about!

 

I actually thought we would threaten the exit out of the Championship downwards rather than upwards before the season started but I was very wrong on that.

 

I don't think the league is any worse or an better but we have new lens on it now after the past ten years and we only have to look at fallen clubs slowly rotting away (Sheff W, Blackburn etc) to realise we fell lucky with Enzo

[ARM1968]

27 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I think that's what Enzo wants too. But the players are human, and i maintain that he doesn't have the squad he wants to execute this exactly as he wants. Tuesday, we had Praet playing in the Ndidi role, and this is a guy who barely presses and pulls out of every challenge. 

 

But, because he doesn't have all the tools he needs, it's not a reason to revert to something else, because even as it is its doing whats needed to get out out of this division. Getting better as a team involves work, training, refreshing the squad, learning from mistakes etc. It will take time.

 

Some fans do need to exercise a little more patience, and also realise if that if they did their bit better, then they will actually help the team along the way. If on Tuesday it was rocking at 30 mins, do you think Swansea would have started to press much better? If we didn't have the embarrassing clear out in the KP on 85 mins and the stadium was showing some proper appreciation for a 3-0 win, would our heads of dropped for the last minute goal. Maybe, maybe not, but i would rather we were trying a bit harder rather than just whinging.

Not sure it’s whinging to see issues and point them out. We’re fans. We’re allowed to. On the whole it’s going great, but there are problems and people see that. You’ve got to have a bit of a thicker skin to be honest. Seems a bit childish. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

24 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

The mentality of the average person from Leicester needs to be studied

We are definitely different. Deinitely more pessimistic. 

 

For example on the Championship facebook pages ALL the Southampton, Leeds and Ipswich fans are all convinved they're going up automaticaly and won't be told otherwise. They're the best sides, have the best manager and have the best players and "just wait and see" what happens at the end of the season. It's constant. 

 

We're 10 points above all of them and our fans aren't like that at all. I think it's something deeply ingrained into the mentaility of the city. 

[HighPeakFox]

9 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

We are definitely different. Deinitely more pessimistic. 

 

For example on the Championship facebook pages ALL the Southampton, Leeds and Ipswich fans are all convinved they're going up automaticaly and won't be told otherwise. They're the best sides, have the best manager and have the best players and "just wait and see" what happens at the end of the season. It's constant. 

 

We're 10 points above all of them and our fans aren't like that at all. I think it's something deeply ingrained into the mentaility of the city. 

Maybe that explains it - being born and raised of parents from elsewhere perhaps led to me having a slightly different way of being, and also why I sometimes struggle to feel like I'm 'proper' Leicester. That and being possessed of a non - Leicester accent. 

 

I often envy those of you who really have that sense of belonging, so there's absolutely no judgement here - quite the opposite in fact. 

[Parafox]

1 minute ago, LCFCJohn said:

You’re fighting a losing battle here bud. Some will see this post that you’ve written but all that will pass through their eyes will be

 

HOOOFFF

 

I don't think anyone has suggested hoof-ball. Certainly not me. 

 

OK it might be exasperating at times when we hold the ball in our own half and pass back and side to side and I get that.

 

I also get that Enzo wants us to play in this way. 

 

I also agree that sitting on a 1-0 lead hoping to see the game out, is not a great way to play. And creates much anxiety.

 

The problem also is, if you come out and press early you risk the chance of going behind which then results in chasing the game and continuing a high press leaving you vulnerable to a counter.

 

Being cautious and probing for weaknesses early on might just open teams up later. As seems to have been proven so far.

[fox in the sox]

39 minutes ago, PaulW said:

So what would you advise.....give up and stay in the Championship forever?

I was responding to a comment that we have a better gk, defence, midfield and manager than last season at the moment.  I hope we can get promoted and put together a good Premier League quality squad. I just don’t think we are better in most areas at the moment, we are just doing better because we are playing at a lower level

[fox in the sox]

41 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Most of these players have already played in Prem and will be more than capable of matching most teams under a manager that knows what he is doing and in a different system.

 

thats without any additional signings 

 

I agree that with additional signings we could be a good Premier League side. It is guesswork though to say that the likes of KDH and Winks will be good enough under a different manager. Winks for example has not been good enough under quite a few managers.

[Durnerz]

A key difference for me having played just bog standard park football in France and Argentina is that their style is a “rest in possession” style. 
 

Meaning that you don’t have to go full throttle and direct all game as we would traditionally. Move the ball around, make the opposition work and slow the game down. 
 

This is what I see from Maresca and with a season as long as the one we have with as many games I think he’s doing the right thing. 
 

Some supporters have been spoiled in recent years and some obviously feel aggrieved at having to watch a rebuild in a division lower than they’re used to but that exactly what it is.

[Trev3939]

4 minutes ago, Durnerz said:

A key difference for me having played just bog standard park football in France and Argentina is that their style is a “rest in possession” style. 
 

Meaning that you don’t have to go full throttle and direct all game as we would traditionally. Move the ball around, make the opposition work and slow the game down. 
 

This is what I see from Maresca and with a season as long as the one we have with as many games I think he’s doing the right thing. 
 

Some supporters have been spoiled in recent years and some obviously feel aggrieved at having to watch a rebuild in a division lower than they’re used to but that exactly what it is.

Think this is spot on, having spoken to people who have a large tactical understanding of football, Maresca's style is perfect for wearing out the opposition and slowing the game down, which is perfect for this league. A lot of people have no clue

[Nod.E]

20 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Maybe that explains it - being born and raised of parents from elsewhere perhaps led to me having a slightly different way of being, and also why I sometimes struggle to feel like I'm 'proper' Leicester. That and being possessed of a non - Leicester accent. 

 

I often envy those of you who really have that sense of belonging, so there's absolutely no judgement here - quite the opposite in fact. 

Similar for me, difference being I never really felt 'proper' Leicester even when I did live there, and then moved away. 

 

Saying that, I do catch myself viewing things in an overly negative light at times, which others can pick up on. I blame that on my upbringing in Leicester

[harpendenfox]

53 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

We basically played the exact same football under Rodgers only we were less well drilled for large parts.

I disagree with that. Those last two seasons in the Prem, I felt our only tactic was to try and find Maddy and hope he could produce some magic. Other than that I could see no plan. Now there is clearly a plan.

[Gubbins]

21 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Great post! Probably the first on here that makes a great argument and explanation for the apathy towards the team and modern game. 

 

This is why I’ve always said I’ve had sympathy for people that don’t like the style. A similar analogy is heavyweight boxing. The Klitschko brothers dominated for years but were awful to watch. Fighters like Fury and Usev by contrast are way more exciting. 
 

One suggestion though, which you may or may not find changes your perspective. Try to put yourself into the players minds. Unlike Rodgers / Puel we are moving the ball to shift the block. Often times you can see the move develop and can predict when the explosion is about to happen. 

 

 

 

One more thing. I don’t get how people enjoyed hoofball from yesteryear! There was a famous game for Man United under David Moyes where they put 81 crosses into the box in one game but lost. But I think our fans would absolutely salivate at seeing that form of football 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haha I actually brought up that man utd game the other night with my dad citing it as one of the main reasons teams now almost exclusively play with inverted wingers rather than getting to the byline and crossing it in. Forgotten it was as high as 81 failed crosses though. 

 

Hoofball wise I remember back when puel was taking loads of abuse on here sticking up for him and comparing what he was trying to achieve favourably to Shakespeare who had his team playing a style that could best be described as 'defend for your lives and hoof it for vardy to chase'. They would rarely make it past 3 touches of the ball before giving it away. Watching Howard flick a hoof on to the opposition/give a foul away alway used to enrage me as well so I'm def not pining for a return to an at this point prehistoric style. 

 

Someone made the point earlier that we have now been playing a similar possesion style since 2018 now and whilst there's been differences particularly in the early Rodgers years I think some people just want a more obvious change. Maybe there is more purpose to marescas football but on the surface which is what the majority of people will see,  vestergaard to faes to Doyle to hermanson to vestergaard is very similar to faes to amartey to Justin to ward to faes.

 

I appreciate you trying to get people to look at the game differently but certainly in my case and i suspect many others my eyes generally follow the ball. I'm at the game to hopefully see leicester try their best to get that ball in the opposition net and even if I could start following the oppositions lines movements I'm doubt I'd find it particularly exhilarating and thinking multiple steps ahead is just not how I watch football and why I can't really enjoy our current play style.

 

[whoareyaaa]

17 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

I agree that with additional signings we could be a good Premier League side. It is guesswork though to say that the likes of KDH and Winks will be good enough under a different manager. Winks for example has not been good enough under quite a few managers.

Both are more than capable of performing in the Prem I don’t think it’s guess work at all 

[HighPeakFox]

5 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Similar for me, difference being I never really felt 'proper' Leicester even when I did live there, and then moved away. 

No, I was the same. It felt very strange having grandparents in Manchester and Brighton. 

[Chelmofox]

49 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Not sure it’s whinging to see issues and point them out. We’re fans. We’re allowed to. On the whole it’s going great, but there are problems and people see that. You’ve got to have a bit of a thicker skin to be honest. Seems a bit childish. 

Hey mate - all 3 in my family were singing largely on our own in H block till the bitter end. My son wasn't actually feeling well at all after some food poisoning a few days before.  I asked him if he wanted to leave early and he said 'absolutely not'. After the game we both went right to the front to show appreciation.  The fact we were stood there largely on our own was a complete embarrassment. 

 

I'm 'happy' to say I thought it was one of my least favourite games of the season - im happy to offer some sort of critical assessment. However, i have no idea why you think i need thicker skin when I question 'some' of the fans view on all of this.

 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

13 minutes ago, harpendenfox said:

I disagree with that. Those last two seasons in the Prem, I felt our only tactic was to try and find Maddy and hope he could produce some magic. Other than that I could see no plan. Now there is clearly a plan.

You could argue that at our poorest we do the same this season - except its mavididi or fattawu.

 

I actually think we are way more pragmatic this year, we've scored lots on the counter and there's lots of goals from balls in behind too which we saw very rarely under Rodgers.

[Golden Fox]

19 hours ago, Death by Football said:

It’s amazing how polarising this topic is. 
You don’t have to be a football hipster to understand or appreciate the current style just as you don’t need to be a knuckle dragging mouth breather to want to see a little more flamboyance in our play. 
Football at the top level has changed to adapt the current philosophy but it will also continue to adapt. My concern is that we are implementing a style of play that has already been implemented by most other top level teams who are way ahead of us at the moment. By the time we catch up they will have adapted again. 
You can’t shake up the established elite by copying what they do using weaker players. 
At the moment we’re flat track bullies with the talent in our squad to beat most teams in the division regardless of style. 
All credit to Enzo for picking a style that works right now but also bear in mind he didn’t develop this style himself. He’s clearly a genius to have turned Vestergaard into a potential player of the season but let’s not pretend he is running some tactical masterclass week in week out. 

I've not got all the way through this thread, but when people talk about unrealistic expectations and a sense of entitlement, this is it.

This is complaining that doing only the same as the top level teams in world is not good enough - we need to be creating a style of play that is better than them and a style that means weaker players will beat better players! And one that is flamboyant while we're at it!

This sort of thing happens so rarely - it happened with the Hungarian teams exposing England in the 1950s, the likes of the Graham Taylor the long ball revolution upsetting the elite, the tiki-taka of Barcelona and Spain, and dare I say it, on a more temporary basis, our counter-attacking 15/16 team that was such an antidote to possession football.

It might be that as a club in the last 10 years, we have watched with our own eyes our club upsetting the elite that we think we have a right to expect it to happen again.

But come on - we are a club with a (virtually) rookie manager in the second tier - we're on historic pace, and as fans, we should back him and what he is doing without audibly complaining about players following his instructions, or expecting him to go down as one of the most innovative coaches in history.

[StriderHiryu]

33 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

Haha I actually brought up that man utd game the other night with my dad citing it as one of the main reasons teams now almost exclusively play with inverted wingers rather than getting to the byline and crossing it in. Forgotten it was as high as 81 failed crosses though. 

 

Hoofball wise I remember back when puel was taking loads of abuse on here sticking up for him and comparing what he was trying to achieve favourably to Shakespeare who had his team playing a style that could best be described as 'defend for your lives and hoof it for vardy to chase'. They would rarely make it past 3 touches of the ball before giving it away. Watching Howard flick a hoof on to the opposition/give a foul away alway used to enrage me as well so I'm def not pining for a return to an at this point prehistoric style. 

 

Someone made the point earlier that we have now been playing a similar possesion style since 2018 now and whilst there's been differences particularly in the early Rodgers years I think some people just want a more obvious change. Maybe there is more purpose to marescas football but on the surface which is what the majority of people will see,  vestergaard to faes to Doyle to hermanson to vestergaard is very similar to faes to amartey to Justin to ward to faes.

 

I appreciate you trying to get people to look at the game differently but certainly in my case and i suspect many others my eyes generally follow the ball. I'm at the game to hopefully see leicester try their best to get that ball in the opposition net and even if I could start following the oppositions lines movements I'm doubt I'd find it particularly exhilarating and thinking multiple steps ahead is just not how I watch football and why I can't really enjoy our current play style.

 

You're very eloquent in the way you describe what you don't like. That's what is refreshing for me to see!

 

Back to the music analogy, I'm trying to get you into some new band I've just heard and you're like "nah mate, not for me". And that's fair enough!

[ARM1968]

37 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Hey mate - all 3 in my family were singing largely on our own in H block till the bitter end. My son wasn't actually feeling well at all after some food poisoning a few days before.  I asked him if he wanted to leave early and he said 'absolutely not'. After the game we both went right to the front to show appreciation.  The fact we were stood there largely on our own was a complete embarrassment. 

 

I'm 'happy' to say I thought it was one of my least favourite games of the season - im happy to offer some sort of critical assessment. However, i have no idea why you think i need thicker skin when I question 'some' of the fans view on all of this.

 

 

🤣🤣. You probably do judging by that. I meant Enzo. He needs to toughen up if he’s letting fans get to him. 

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

2 hours ago, Saxondale said:

I’m very sorry to stereotype, but it tends to be the older generation who moan, who think that attacking football means blasting it forward at the first opportunity.

You might be right, although the people I tend to notice moaning and shouting 'Forwards!' are usually blokes fortyish or very often younger.

Anyway, I'm old, and I'm loving it.

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

We basically played the exact same football under Rodgers only we were less well drilled for large parts.

It'll be interesting to see if we go up, whether Enzo can fare better at being able to prevent the team being constantly out of position when attacking but even more so when defending.