Enzo Maresca frustration boils over as he says 'moment there's doubt about the idea, I will leave'

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, dynamark said:

I think the concern is that this style/system will not work in a premier league situation .We are well happy at present after last season but naturally nervous,Most of us can remember the winning year and it didnt happen by passing across the back line

You could easily make the case that this styles prevalence in the EPL top level is because of the Vardy. Mahrez, et al and the style they used to such effect.

[FLAN]

OPA on RL saying Pep been there 8 years and only

jisy got team how he wants it 😂

wtf

[ARTY_FOX]

1 hour ago, ARM1968 said:

Don’t think it’s that bad to be fair or that constant. Most of the time it’s like a morgue - the joy of success. 

You need to come and sit near me for a game. I'm really not exaggerating how bad it is. It is the worst its been for as long as I can remember, certainly over a decade. 

[ARM1968]

Just now, ARTY_FOX said:

You need to come and sit near me for a game. I'm really not exaggerating how bad it is. It is the worst its been for as long as I can remember, certainly over a decade. 

Ahh. Well. I have trouble attending now as I live in Wales. Didn’t seem so bad on the streams I watch. I mean that might grate on Enzo then, but he still needs to toughen up and not start throwing his clappers out the pram. Maybe somebody should have told him that as a club we have no money but we do have an over abundance of moronic fans. 

[Lillehamring]

17 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Absolutely agree, but don’t whine then if a few people get frustrated with your genius. 

Was it a whine or was it...a challenge?

It seems to me that he's calling out these people and making them realise how idiotic they are.

[Lillehamring]

17 hours ago, fox in the sox said:

If we leave early we get home in 1 hour and half, if we wait for the whistle it can be 3 hours. This is well after midnight for an evening kick off and we are getting to bed too late when there is work in the morning. It’s a bit harsh to say we shouldn’t go at all!

Curious to know, logistically, how this is even possible - just from traffic congestion?

[Bourbon Fox]

[Lillehamring]

16 hours ago, Gubbins said:

I do think a large part of the dissatisfaction that I and many others feel is just to do with the current stage of football evolution (God that sounds rubbish!). Not being a tactics nerd I'd often in recent years watch us fail to get past a low block or get pressed into mistakes whilst in possesion and be completely clueless about what we could do to counter these tactics.

 

I fully understand how our endless passing about in our half is supposed to eventually both draw out the low block, get past the press and eventually tire out the other team. Its proven (against poor quality opponents) to work well, sporadically it looks really good and goodness knows I can't think of another method to do it. This is probably the way most top clubs will move towards playing for the next few years.

 

However I hate it. When the opposition aren't drawn out far enough it is literally just the cbs and goalkeeper passing to each other, yes eventually itl work but it's a drag having to wait for it to happen and frustrating as all hell when we do break the press only to quite often turn around and start over again, sometimes out of necessity, sometimes seemingly not. The comparisons to chess have been made a few times on this thread and there is a reason why it's not a big spectator sport. Part of me would honestly like to give up on football as not really enjoying watching us when we're winning combined with the cheating, greed, VAR, media bias and all the other awful stuff that makes up football nowadays should be the final nail in the coffin. It's just very hard to kick a 30 year habit.

But that isn't the result of the way we play, that's the result of how the opposition play - if they don't commit, they don't commit - and if they don't commit, we usually try another approach.  people are talking/acting like we stand there for minutes on end, doing nothing, but it isn't the case, i'm sure if it was measured it wouldn't be anywhere near as long as people are making out.

 

Form my experience the groans tend to be reserved for when we push forwards AND THEN GO BACK - which seems to be particularly the case with Justin.  It's almost like the fans have been patient, it looks like we're going forward, and then we go back, and then they groan.

[ARM1968]

7 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Was it a whine or was it...a challenge?

It seems to me that he's calling out these people and making them realise how idiotic they are.

Perspective perhaps. Different takes. Threatening to walk away sounds like a whine to me. Could be a challenge, but I’d like to see that delivered in a different, more ballsy way. Again, perspective. 

[Lillehamring]

15 hours ago, Long Eaton Fox said:

Ok, I love how we have played pre Christmas, with quick movement from side to side , tiring teams out and taking over second half, but this slow ponderous play across the back recently is giving the relatively poor opposition chances. It is also stressing me out. I know it's Enzo's plan but he needs to adapt too. Of course I love winning but watching the last few games  has been very  frustrating. As a fan for many years I hope we can all stand together in our attempt at a premiership return.

 

Which games are these - in the 6 games we've played in 2024 we've scored 3+ goals in four of them, only failing when playing with 10 men or against a very good Ipswich side.

 

This is what is so hard to understand about all the moaning - in the last 6 games we've scored 15 goals - and probably could have had a lot more - and all people can do is pick up on the fact that at times we can be slower in our play - which, 30 something games in, you'd think people would have got used to by now.

[Lillehamring]

8 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

I don’t think anyone wants that. Even the best teams in the world don’t do that. It’s perfectly reasonable to find our approach a bit boring, often it is. The main crux of the issue is that the style Enzo is playing is meant to pull teams apart. We do that and then go backwards again, allowing them to regroup. 
 

I think the naysayers just want us to be more positive in those situations. We turned it up a notch against Swansea and scored 2 second half - then went straight back into our shell.  That handed some initiative back to them. There was no need. We do it too often and don’t kill games we should. 

But why is this a problem - it's not complacency or sloppiness, it's a part of our game management.  If we don't take time just to play passively, to allow the opposition their moment, then it will be us that becomes tired out.

I get that it can be perceived as dangerous, but so far it really hasn't been - look at the figures for points dropped from a winning position and you can see that our game plan is sound (especially as the one loss we only had 10 men).

 

 

[worth_the_wait]

20 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

But that isn't the result of the way we play, that's the result of how the opposition play - if they don't commit, they don't commit - and if they don't commit, we usually try another approach.  people are talking/acting like we stand there for minutes on end, doing nothing, but it isn't the case, i'm sure if it was measured it wouldn't be anywhere near as long as people are making out.

 

Form my experience the groans tend to be reserved for when we push forwards AND THEN GO BACK - which seems to be particularly the case with Justin.  It's almost like the fans have been patient, it looks like we're going forward, and then we go back, and then they groan.

I think the 2nd bit is definitely true, and is a simple (but astute) observation that not too many have made before.

 

Most of the fans are patient, even if you're not totally in favour of a slower possession-based game.   And then just when it looks like we really are pushing forwards, we suddenly stop and go backwards.     I think you're right.   That is the biggest "groan moment".

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Not sure it’s whinging to see issues and point them out. We’re fans. We’re allowed to. On the whole it’s going great, but there are problems and people see that. You’ve got to have a bit of a thicker skin to be honest. Seems a bit childish. 

yeah, but common sense suggests that there's a time and a place for critique, and when we're 3-0 up or whatever doesn't seem to be it.

 

Anyone who has a job wants to be acknowledged as doing their job well, if you do a poor job, then expect criticism, but if you're the best guy in the company and someone complains if you linger over your coffee break you might just think - føkk this, i'm the best person here and i'm getting shit because i take my time making my coffee.

 

And as for our 'problems' - time to have some perspective, if this is us with problems, then it's clearly problems we can deal with - or should we, do we, as a fanbase, expect perfection

[Lillehamring]

6 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

You could argue that at our poorest we do the same this season - except its mavididi or fattawu.

 

I actually think we are way more pragmatic this year, we've scored lots on the counter and there's lots of goals from balls in behind too which we saw very rarely under Rodgers.

One of the most miserable and negative comments in this thread.

 

Apart from the fact that we never just lum pit to the wingers and hope, exactly when and where have we been poor? 

[ARM1968]

Just now, Lillehamring said:

yeah, but common sense suggests that there's a time and a place for critique, and when we're 3-0 up or whatever doesn't seem to be it.

 

Anyone who has a job wants to be acknowledged as doing their job well, if you do a poor job, then expect criticism, but if you're the best guy in the company and someone complains if you linger over your coffee break you might just think - føkk this, i'm the best person here and i'm getting shit because i take my time making my coffee.

 

And as for our 'problems' - time to have some perspective, if this is us with problems, then it's clearly problems we can deal with - or should we, do we, as a fanbase, expect perfection

You want to try working in high level IT. Hear nothing if you’ve done a good job. Only hear back if there’s a problem. No plaudits or laurel leaves. Same for many I guess. 
 

I can’t speak for those in the crowd at 3-0 up - HighPeskyFox said I must only speak for myself 🤣.  Someone above was talking about the going back when there is good opportunity to go forward. That is frustrating and often appears unnecessary. 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

One of the most miserable and negative comments in this thread.

 

Apart from the fact that we never just lum pit to the wingers and hope, exactly when and where have we been poor? 

I think you've taken this wrong.

 

We've had spells where we struggle to break teams down and the tactics can seem a bit predictable in getting it to the wingers. Leeds was one, and there's certainly been other games where we've not been good. And in the early part of the season where we were less fluent we certainly looked to the wingers for ideas.

 

But that's not the point I was making anyway, I was saying our style in simular to what it was under Rodgers only were much better drilled now. Its not a criticism of the style.

[Lillehamring]

6 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

You want to try working in high level IT. Hear nothing if you’ve done a good job. Only hear back if there’s a problem. No plaudits or laurel leaves. Same for many I guess. 
 

I can’t speak for those in the crowd at 3-0 up - HighPeskyFox said I must only speak for myself 🤣.  Someone above was talking about the going back when there is good opportunity to go forward. That is frustrating and often appears unnecessary. 

but even that is better than being criticised when you're doing a good job. which is what's happening at the KP.

 

If people aren't happy, fair enough - but keep it to yourselves, people.

[Lillehamring]

4 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

I think you've taken this wrong.

 

We've had spells where we struggle to break teams down and the tactics can seem a bit predictable in getting it to the wingers. Leeds was one, and there's certainly been other games where we've not been good. And in the early part of the season where we were less fluent we certainly looked to the wingers for ideas.

 

But that's not the point I was making anyway, I was saying our style in simular to what it was under Rodgers only were much better drilled now. Its not a criticism of the style.

Sure there are games when we haven't been at our best, but even against Leeds we weren't 'poor' -  poor was what we were last season.

 

As for the comparison with rodgers - there's a whole thread here showing exactly why there is almost nothing to compare, other than perhaps superficially.  rodger's negativity ended with us playing one dimensionally along the back line, maresca has us playing across the back but via the midfielders and the goalie - it's massively different.

[ARM1968]

8 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

but even that is better than being criticised when you're doing a good job. which is what's happening at the KP.

 

If people aren't happy, fair enough - but keep it to yourselves, people.

Come on man, it’s high level sport. It’s 30+ thousand people, all with opinions. It’s Rome. They want blood on the sand. Teams put to the sword. Enzo gets paid very well indeed, the players better still. Fans are allowed their foibles surely. I’m not yet ready to live in a sterile world where nobody can say or feel anything in case it offends someone with skin no thicker than rice paper. 
 

The whole point is, we are doing great, so is Enzo. Fans are allowed to voice their feelings, that’s ok. As a professional manager being given a golden opportunity at a good club it would seem, to me, a little churlish to threaten to quit over it. 

[NorthWalesFox]

If his styles brings success, I couldn’t careless how attractive it is. It’s a results based business.

[Trav Le Bleu]

The only thing that's boiling ov... Oh, no, wait...

 

I was going to say teacup, but turns out it is just a storm.

[Gubbins]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

But that isn't the result of the way we play, that's the result of how the opposition play - if they don't commit, they don't commit - and if they don't commit, we usually try another approach.  people are talking/acting like we stand there for minutes on end, doing nothing, but it isn't the case, i'm sure if it was measured it wouldn't be anywhere near as long as people are making out.

 

Form my experience the groans tend to be reserved for when we push forwards AND THEN GO BACK - which seems to be particularly the case with Justin.  It's almost like the fans have been patient, it looks like we're going forward, and then we go back, and then they groan.

Its surely a mixture of both the opposition and the way we play. We could try something different rather than relentless controlled possesion but choose not too and even when we do it is often eventually abandoned for more cb passing drills. Even if you're right I still find the thing exhaustingly dull to watch which just goes to show that it's modern football and not just maresca ball that I don't like.

[I blame Wellens]

Problem not with the team or manager. The problem is us. It is that simple.

 

Remenber the days when young fans didn’t moan about the older fans and got on with singing?.Remember when fans didn’t leave 20 mins early? Remember when  people weren’t on their mobile phones every 5 minutes? Remember when you went to the game for the banter?. Remember when we didn’t need a drum? Remember when we were celebrating every goal in league 1 like it was the champions league? Remember when the ZDS semi final was a dream that became reality.? Remember when we did it need honesty flags, clappers, light shows?

Remember  the half time relay? 

 

it’s not the same and will never be the same. But I will always love those boys in blue. Will never leave early and get behind the boys. There is a few of us left. Not many though. 

[fuchsntf]

22 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

You want to try working in high level IT. Hear nothing if you’ve done a good job. Only hear back if there’s a problem. No plaudits or laurel leaves. Same for many I guess. 
 

I can’t speak for those in the crowd at 3-0 up - HighPeskyFox said I must only speak for myself 🤣.  Someone above was talking about the going back when there is good opportunity to go forward. That is frustrating and often appears unnecessary. 

Or use the moment to try other ways and channels to find and create.. Being 3 up allows a coach to ask his players, to move the ball around differently for the sake of process in future games. 

Game won let's go back to our training methods.. 

Mcateer, Fatawu. Justin, Choudhury, often suddenly hold up a front foot drive, and pull opposition to do ball watching, hoping to find space for KDH, CF, Mavididi. Then  10 minutes later they take that opportunity.. In it's frustration it can also be gorgeous in it's end result.. Like the fielding team in cricket deliberately/sacrificing give away runs.. To take 1-2 difficult/strong wickets.. 

It. might sometimes be boring, but isn't gung-ho exchange, and getting bogged down, boring.. Leicester for 20 years at home went first 10-15 minutes Gung-ho, then often imploded or found a 2nd - 3rd breath, to turn game in their favor for 2-3 games. 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

43 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Sure there are games when we haven't been at our best, but even against Leeds we weren't 'poor' -  poor was what we were last season.

 

As for the comparison with rodgers - there's a whole thread here showing exactly why there is almost nothing to compare, other than perhaps superficially.  rodger's negativity ended with us playing one dimensionally along the back line, maresca has us playing across the back but via the midfielders and the goalie - it's massively different.

Cool 👍