Enzo Maresca frustration boils over as he says 'moment there's doubt about the idea, I will leave'

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

This basically. I think some people think the term direct equates to hoof ball and go snobby about it. But that first Vardy goal was the absolute hybrid of great football but also direct. Win the ball, play it out, break forward, fantastic ball to Justin and a peach of a cross. 

I didn't see too much different yesterday to the Swansea game though, except because we got the 2nd goal in quick succession it felt less concerning that we might do exactly what we'd done twice vs Ipswich.

 

Both teams played a ridiculously high line against us and we took them apart. Both games could have seen us score 7 or 8. It's so good to see the chance creation so high at the minute.

 

I think the impetus has stepped up.

[Pliskin]

I think @Ric Flair made a very good point on the BSLB pod, it’s one I share. 
 

I still think that they’re a lot of fans in fact, who aren’t what you would consider “football” fans. They support Leicester City and that the extent of their football knowledge. It’s not a criticism, because it’s not really their fault, it’s what they had access to when they got into football. 
 

What this can impact, is how you view football or how you develop as a fan. If you think about the vast majority of fans, they grew up in an era where match of the day, and a Saturday tea time game were their football outlets, other than coming to watch the city. Exposure to international football was limited, so exposure to a different culture of football, and different styles were at a premium. 
 

This is vastly different to what I would consider to be my generation, who had FIFA, Championship/Football manager, football Italia, sky sports international football and a more televised champions league. Then you’ve got the rise of social media, which essentially offered untapped access to football from all over the world. 
 

I think all of this can have an impact on fans expectations, the game has evolved hugely, and at a rapid pace. You can argue that the birth of the premier league should have changed that, but I still think there’s a lot of learned behaviours in football and pockets of fans won’t have come away from their traditions to adapt. I worked with someone who still only listened to radio Leicester for their football, some people don’t have satellite TV, and never have so their football exposure is whatever is on terrestrial TV. 
 

I thin theres a strong correlation between fans football education and what they expect and how they view a game. Some will love Enzo’s style, it’s like a chess game and you’ll play a set way to achieve your goal…. Others will view it as boring side to side football with zero entertainment because the pace can often be fairly slow. 
 

Some consider football as entertainment, thus it needs to be high octane, high energy hell for leather football…. Which would be us traditionally, which is probably why some fans struggle with anything different, they were used to growing up watching this type of football. Yes there were teams who were possession based in previous generations, but they were considered streets ahead and the standard of player was far inferior to the modern day footballer, now, footballers are a completely different beast compared to yesteryears, they’re athletes, and mostly singing from the same hymn sheet in terms of philosophy….

 

This is the modern way, it’s what we will be used to, and we will probably be the same in about 20-30 years when football is being played on Mars or something……. 
 

I also think because up until the last decade, our success has been modest, bouncing around the top two tiers, with the occasional league cup success, we’ve had the most ridiculous decade in the history of football, if you travelled back in time and told the story it would make a blockbuster fantasy movie…. But I think because of this we’ve developed a really sentimental approach to our football, which was evident when people were still viciously in support of Rodgers last season, despite the failures, and clapping the players off after a spineless relegation. 
 

It takes all sorts to support a football club, but sometimes some fans need to open their eyes a little bit to the modern game, it’s the way it’s going worldwide.

Edited 4 February by Pliskin

[iancognito]

As a fanbase, we have a lot of hobbyists. People who have LCFC as a thing in their lives but not their main passion, they follow the club, love the Vichai Had A Dream thing and will sit there for 90 mins on the hope they get a ten minute Vardy cameo. But their overall knowledge of tactics, analysis of styles of play, high press low block and the rest is like learning a foreign language. You look at other fanbases - Geordies, Scousers, Man City etc and it's their main love, their lives revolve round the club and it's success. The Enzo detractors, the 82nd minute leavers, the Gerrit Forwards fall into this category. Sure there's exceptions but by and large it's about your understanding of the game and how much time you invest in the club as to how you get your head around the tactics and style.

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, iancognito said:

As a fanbase, we have a lot of hobbyists. People who have LCFC as a thing in their lives but not their main passion, they follow the club, love the Vichai Had A Dream thing and will sit there for 90 mins on the hope they get a ten minute Vardy cameo. But their overall knowledge of tactics, analysis of styles of play, high press low block and the rest is like learning a foreign language. You look at other fanbases - Geordies, Scousers, Man City etc and it's their main love, their lives revolve round the club and it's success. The Enzo detractors, the 82nd minute leavers, the Gerrit Forwards fall into this category. Sure there's exceptions but by and large it's about your understanding of the game and how much time you invest in the club as to how you get your head around the tactics and style.

I agree!

[Chrysalis]

On 03/02/2024 at 12:02, Daggers said:

And yet the pulling opposition players out of position is precisely what trying to score looks like.
 

…Which is why we are the league’s leading scorers, outscoring any other style of play. 

Thats not what we was doing in that half though.

 

As I said some people cant tell when we doing that or when we just playing keep ball to pass out the game.

 

Also when was I talking about the rest of the season?

Edited 4 February by Chrysalis

[Chrysalis]

3 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

This basically. I think some people think the term direct equates to hoof ball and go snobby about it. But that first Vardy goal was the absolute hybrid of great football but also direct. Win the ball, play it out, break forward, fantastic ball to Justin and a peach of a cross. 

I do feel we have a large element of football snobbery right now, like we feel certain things are "beneath us".

 

I dont think there is an issue with people disagreeing with each other on how the game should be played, thats just banter.  But its getting silly when people start to get snobbish about it, and actually start demonising fans.  It was happening a lot during Rodgers time here e.g. constant posts about people moaning about fans who didnt agree with what Rodgers was doing, and who dared to criticise the messiah, for been stupid to think we could be relegated.  Yes I do remember all the stuff spouted.

 

The funny thing is I do back Enzo, and can see what he is trying to do, we have had some pretty good games this season,  but on occasion I will speak out when I feel he has made a mistake or got it wrong, but there is an element on here, who are kind of in the area of that the manager can do no wrong and no one is allowed to say anything negative not ever.

This thread seems to have let them loose, and suddenly its the Rodgers fan wars all over again.

 

Your point I agree with 100%, its funny when we score on a counter, or hybrid play, and its seen as a means to prove that forward football is some kind of evil.

Edited 4 February by Chrysalis

[Itsthejoeker]

12 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I do feel we have a large element of football snobbery right now, like we feel certain things are "beneath us".

 

I dont think there is an issue with people disagreeing with each other on how the game should be played, thats just banter.  But its getting silly when people start to get snobbish about it, and actually start demonising fans.  It was happening a lot during Rodgers time here e.g. constant posts about people moaning about fans who didnt agree with what Rodgers was doing, and who dared to criticise the messiah, for been stupid to think we could be relegated.  Yes I do remember all the stuff spouted.

 

The funny thing is I do back Enzo, and can see what he is trying to do, we have had some pretty good games this season,  but on occasion I will speak out when I feel he has made a mistake or got it wrong, but there is an element on here, who are kind of in the area of that the manager can do no wrong and no one is allowed to say anything negative not ever.

This thread seems to have let them loose, and suddenly its the Rodgers fan wars all over again.

 

Your point I agree with 100%, its funny when we score on a counter, or hybrid play, and its seen as a means to prove that forward football is some kind of evil.

It’s happening with everything these days, people like to draw these all encompassing Ven diagrams where if you think some of our performances haven’t been great, you must also hate Enzo, love Rudkin, punched people who disliked Rodgers, use clap banners, be over 70, travel to away games in coach one etc etc etc. 

 

This forum is getting horribly tribal of late. 

[Bordersfox]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I think @Ric Flair made a very good point on the BSLB pod, it’s one I share. 
 

I still think that they’re a lot of fans in fact, who aren’t what you would consider “football” fans. They support Leicester City and that the extent of their football knowledge. It’s not a criticism, because it’s not really their fault, it’s what they had access to when they got into football. 
 

What this can impact, is how you view football or how you develop as a fan. If you think about the vast majority of fans, they grew up in an era where match of the day, and a Saturday tea time game were their football outlets, other than coming to watch the city. Exposure to international football was limited, so exposure to a different culture of football, and different styles were at a premium. 
 

This is vastly different to what I would consider to be my generation, who had FIFA, Championship/Football manager, football Italia, sky sports international football and a more televised champions league. Then you’ve got the rise of social media, which essentially offered untapped access to football from all over the world. 
 

I think all of this can have an impact on fans expectations, the game has evolved hugely, and at a rapid pace. You can argue that the birth of the premier league should have changed that, but I still think there’s a lot of learned behaviours in football and pockets of fans won’t have come away from their traditions to adapt. I worked with someone who still only listened to radio Leicester for their football, some people don’t have satellite TV, and never have so their football exposure is whatever is on terrestrial TV. 
 

I thin theres a strong correlation between fans football education and what they expect and how they view a game. Some will love Enzo’s style, it’s like a chess game and you’ll play a set way to achieve your goal…. Others will view it as boring side to side football with zero entertainment because the pace can often be fairly slow. 
 

Some consider football as entertainment, thus it needs to be high octane, high energy hell for leather football…. Which would be us traditionally, which is probably why some fans struggle with anything different, they were used to growing up watching this type of football. Yes there were teams who were possession based in previous generations, but they were considered streets ahead and the standard of player was far inferior to the modern day footballer, now, footballers are a completely different beast compared to yesteryears, they’re athletes, and mostly singing from the same hymn sheet in terms of philosophy….

 

This is the modern way, it’s what we will be used to, and we will probably be the same in about 20-30 years when football is being played on Mars or something……. 
 

I also think because up until the last decade, our success has been modest, bouncing around the top two tiers, with the occasional league cup success, we’ve had the most ridiculous decade in the history of football, if you travelled back in time and told the story it would make a blockbuster fantasy movie…. But I think because of this we’ve developed a really sentimental approach to our football, which was evident when people were still viciously in support of Rodgers last season, despite the failures, and clapping the players off after a spineless relegation. 
 

It takes all sorts to support a football club, but sometimes some fans need to open their eyes a little bit to the modern game, it’s the way it’s going worldwide.

I was brought up on sensible world of soccer and frankly it's made me close to a tactical genius in footballing terms.  

 

It's a disgrace we don't have more players shooting from the half way line.  

[cruzFOX]

I’ve had some time to reflect and I put my hand up as one of the fans getting irrate and impatient with our style of football.

 

first of all I’ve 100% bought into Enzo and his philosophy. When the players execute it well it’s excellent. When it’s not executed well we look a serious liability. when this happens Enzo is trying to fix it. Maybe sometimes he can’t do that in the game. He’s allowed to experiment & make mistakes I guess. He’s not pep guardiola just yet. 
 

Enzo does see what we see. It’s easy for us to say fix it. Players at the end of the day have to do some thinking for themselves too. They are still learning themselves playing this way.

 

Given the risks and fragility in the way we play I’m sure I’m not the only one who wishes we go all guns and bang 3 or 4 goals in the 1st half so it can settle all our nerves. sounds a bit simplistic & maybe it is. 
 

End of the day we are doing fine we just all need to practise a bit more patience & gratitude (myself included)!

[ARM1968]

1 hour ago, Bordersfox said:

I was brought up on sensible world of soccer and frankly it's made me close to a tactical genius in footballing terms.  

 

It's a disgrace we don't have more players shooting from the half way line.  

Now that was a game. Snapped many a joystick playing that. Almost as bad a Tekken. Used to have to nip down to Cavendish Commodore for warranty claims. 

[SemperEadem]

On 02/02/2024 at 16:52, SamA27 said:

Getting this banner made up for Watford. Does anyone know how I can make sure some jobsworth steward doesn't take it down?

Wear it

[Spudulike]

On 02/02/2024 at 16:52, SamA27 said:

Getting this banner made up for Watford. Does anyone know how I can make sure some jobsworth steward doesn't take it down?

You'd have more of an effect with something like 'Your team needs you - Stay til the end'. 

[Oldfox67]

2 hours ago, Bordersfox said:

I was brought up on sensible world of soccer and frankly it's made me close to a tactical genius in footballing terms.  

 

It's a disgrace we don't have more players shooting from the half way line.  

Goal scoring superstar hero?

[worth_the_wait]

3 hours ago, iancognito said:

As a fanbase, we have a lot of hobbyists. People who have LCFC as a thing in their lives but not their main passion, they follow the club, love the Vichai Had A Dream thing and will sit there for 90 mins on the hope they get a ten minute Vardy cameo. But their overall knowledge of tactics, analysis of styles of play, high press low block and the rest is like learning a foreign language. You look at other fanbases - Geordies, Scousers, Man City etc and it's their main love, their lives revolve round the club and it's success. The Enzo detractors, the 82nd minute leavers, the Gerrit Forwards fall into this category. Sure there's exceptions but by and large it's about your understanding of the game and how much time you invest in the club as to how you get your head around the tactics and style.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't really agree. 

 

I don't think a person's knowledge of tactics and style has anything to do with the time they invest in their club, or how passionate they are.     

I think it's simply more intrinsic than that.   Some people are interested in tactics, and some aren't.  

It doesn't make you any better or worse a fan (or more/less intelligent, for that matter) ... it's just that different people, have a different take on what interests them.

 

I know people across the spectrum from absolute die-hard fanatics (whose club is their whole life) to fair-weather part-time fans.   Some of these have a pretty good understanding about tactics.   Others less so.    But there's no correlation with their love for the club, or how much it means to them.

 

fwiw ... I think the people who understand tactics best, are those who have actually played the game to a half decent standard.

 

[The_77]

3 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

I do feel we have a large element of football snobbery right now, like we feel certain things are "beneath us".

 

I dont think there is an issue with people disagreeing with each other on how the game should be played, thats just banter.  But its getting silly when people start to get snobbish about it, and actually start demonising fans.  It was happening a lot during Rodgers time here e.g. constant posts about people moaning about fans who didnt agree with what Rodgers was doing, and who dared to criticise the messiah, for been stupid to think we could be relegated.  Yes I do remember all the stuff spouted.

 

The funny thing is I do back Enzo, and can see what he is trying to do, we have had some pretty good games this season,  but on occasion I will speak out when I feel he has made a mistake or got it wrong, but there is an element on here, who are kind of in the area of that the manager can do no wrong and no one is allowed to say anything negative not ever.

This thread seems to have let them loose, and suddenly its the Rodgers fan wars all over again.

 

Your point I agree with 100%, its funny when we score on a counter, or hybrid play, and its seen as a means to prove that forward football is some kind of evil.

I’m sorry but people who moan and groan at the team for 85 minutes when we score at least three goals deserve it. 

[SkidsFox]

3 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

I do feel we have a large element of football snobbery right now, like we feel certain things are "beneath us".

 

I dont think there is an issue with people disagreeing with each other on how the game should be played, thats just banter.  But its getting silly when people start to get snobbish about it, and actually start demonising fans.  It was happening a lot during Rodgers time here e.g. constant posts about people moaning about fans who didnt agree with what Rodgers was doing, and who dared to criticise the messiah, for been stupid to think we could be relegated.  Yes I do remember all the stuff spouted.

 

The funny thing is I do back Enzo, and can see what he is trying to do, we have had some pretty good games this season,  but on occasion I will speak out when I feel he has made a mistake or got it wrong, but there is an element on here, who are kind of in the area of that the manager can do no wrong and no one is allowed to say anything negative not ever.

This thread seems to have let them loose, and suddenly its the Rodgers fan wars all over again.

 

Your point I agree with 100%, its funny when we score on a counter, or hybrid play, and its seen as a means to prove that forward football is some kind of evil.

Yep. Right from the start of that relegation season it was apparent that some things weren't right, and that we were at severe risk of being relegated. This is not hindsight speaking, there were plenty of posters who raised concerns from the start. Yet certain voices were totally convinced that BR would turn things around, particularly in that spell around November/December.  

Having said that, some folk were convinced we were bound to "piss the league" this season as our squad just had far better players, even after the departure of Soy/Maddison/Barnes/Youri etc. In the event they've been proven right, haven't they? (although I would still say Enzo deserves a great deal of credit for how he's managed the situation).

[bovril]

I was going to write something similar to worth the wait above.

 

People are conflating two things I think. I really don't know loads about modern football. I'd struggle to tell you the Liverpool first XI. I enjoy the posts about tactics on here because I know little about that side of the game. I find the style of football these days more boring than Pearson's team, and I won't ever think of this team like I do the 96-2000 or 13-16 team. I have to admit to loving a "Vardy cameo" as someone above put it. But when I go and try and be vocal and I don't leave early if we're winning. I don't constantly slag off or even shout abuse at our own players when we're top of the league, which, unbelievably. I've heard some of our fans do this season. 

 

There are lots of factors at play here - our bowl stadium, the recent history of the club, the shit match day experience that the club has created, the Leicestershire mentality, the fact it's a one club county. It really has much less to do with appreciating the tactics as some fans or Maresca thinks - if he actually does think that which to be honest we can't tell from this pretty cryptic interview. 

[Bluetintedspecs]

5 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't really agree. 

 

I don't think a person's knowledge of tactics and style has anything to do with the time they invest in their club, or how passionate they are.     

I think it's simply more intrinsic than that.   Some people are interested in tactics, and some aren't.  

It doesn't make you any better or worse a fan (or more/less intelligent, for that matter) ... it's just that different people, have a different take on what interests them.

 

I know people across the spectrum from absolute die-hard fanatics (whose club is their whole life) to fair-weather part-time fans.   Some of these have a pretty good understanding about tactics.   Others less so.    But there's no correlation with their love for the club, or how much it means to them.

 

fwiw ... I think the people who understand tactics best, are those who have actually played the game to a half decent standard.

 

I'd like to debate this with you over a pint at some point 😉🤣

[Izzy]

6 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't really agree. 

 

I don't think a person's knowledge of tactics and style has anything to do with the time they invest in their club, or how passionate they are.     

I think it's simply more intrinsic than that.   Some people are interested in tactics, and some aren't.  

It doesn't make you any better or worse a fan (or more/less intelligent, for that matter) ... it's just that different people, have a different take on what interests them.

 

I know people across the spectrum from absolute die-hard fanatics (whose club is their whole life) to fair-weather part-time fans.   Some of these have a pretty good understanding about tactics.   Others less so.    But there's no correlation with their love for the club, or how much it means to them.

 

fwiw ... I think the people who understand tactics best, are those who have actually played the game to a half decent standard.

 

"Tactics and formations don't win you matches, players do"

 

Brian Clough, circa 1979

[worth_the_wait]

15 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

I'd like to debate this with you over a pint at some point 😉🤣

You're on! 

[ozleicester]

Im not having a go, as everyone is entitled to enjoy their support however they wish.

But the Im a tactics knowitall, Ive played FIFA and Football Manager concept is a funny one to me.

[PhillippaT]

12 hours ago, Bordersfox said:

I was brought up on sensible world of soccer and frankly it's made me close to a tactical genius in footballing terms.  

 

It's a disgrace we don't have more players shooting from the half way line.  

Meh, I started with Football Manager and Match Day on the ZX Speccy

[iancognito]

11 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't really agree. 

 

I don't think a person's knowledge of tactics and style has anything to do with the time they invest in their club, or how passionate they are.     

I think it's simply more intrinsic than that.   Some people are interested in tactics, and some aren't.  

It doesn't make you any better or worse a fan (or more/less intelligent, for that matter) ... it's just that different people, have a different take on what interests them.

 

I know people across the spectrum from absolute die-hard fanatics (whose club is their whole life) to fair-weather part-time fans.   Some of these have a pretty good understanding about tactics.   Others less so.    But there's no correlation with their love for the club, or how much it means to them.

 

fwiw ... I think the people who understand tactics best, are those who have actually played the game to a half decent standard.

 

 

10 hours ago, bovril said:

I was going to write something similar to worth the wait above.

 

People are conflating two things I think. I really don't know loads about modern football. I'd struggle to tell you the Liverpool first XI. I enjoy the posts about tactics on here because I know little about that side of the game. I find the style of football these days more boring than Pearson's team, and I won't ever think of this team like I do the 96-2000 or 13-16 team. I have to admit to loving a "Vardy cameo" as someone above put it. But when I go and try and be vocal and I don't leave early if we're winning. I don't constantly slag off or even shout abuse at our own players when we're top of the league, which, unbelievably. I've heard some of our fans do this season. 

 

There are lots of factors at play here - our bowl stadium, the recent history of the club, the shit match day experience that the club has created, the Leicestershire mentality, the fact it's a one club county. It really has much less to do with appreciating the tactics as some fans or Maresca thinks - if he actually does think that which to be honest we can't tell from this pretty cryptic interview. 

Which is what I was saying about there being exceptions, it's difficult to bracket everyone the same.

 

I've said for a long time the match day experience is terrible. For a while it was all a novelty - the stage outside and the kids stuff next to the Family Stand, pyrotechnics, light shows, clappers, t-shirt cannons and everything else pre-match. But it's become paint-by-numbers. In the way they brought clappers in for the Great Escape they should have been thinking ahead to other stuff to keep people involved, to keep the atmosphere alive but all they've done is more of the same. I mean FFS how many games do we have to see the semi-trained match day staff attempt and fail to use a t-shirt cannon? Flame displays and light shows that do nothing to excite or entertain. It's stale. The half time announcer guy asking people to make some noise. It needs a facelift and major rethink.

[Chrysalis]

11 hours ago, The_77 said:

I’m sorry but people who moan and groan at the team for 85 minutes when we score at least three goals deserve it. 

Deserve what? just ignore them lol.

 

I dont agree with not supporting own team at the stadium, especially when I know what they doing is on the manager's instruction.  But I wouldnt make it my mission to demonise them.  They have paid to be there just as much as you have.

Edited 5 February by Chrysalis

[mozartfox]

The away support has been fantastic.  These fans are hard core Foxes Fanatics and deserve considerable credit.  Looking at the results this season both home and away, you would expect the majority attendees at the KP to be really happy , BUT this is not the case.

 

May be some need transfer their allegiance to Manchester City ?  as this season is all about undoing the Fvck-ups created by the Rudkin-Rodgers. Unfortunately the Financial conundrum and the clearing out the dead-wood is going take another year or so.

 

Get behind the Team!