Enzo Maresca frustration boils over as he says 'moment there's doubt about the idea, I will leave'

[foxfanazer]

Well he's worked out our fanbase quick enough 

[StriderHiryu]

16 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

Difference is mate that for all of those examples this is a completely new identity of modern day football and some won’t get their head around it. Doesn’t matter how much me, you and others go into that tactics thread and wax lyrical about it.

 

 

Sad but true, very well put!

 

I think it will be a generational thing. When I go back and watch First Division games from the 70s or 80s, I can't help but laugh my head off. It's so slow, players literally playing with massive hangovers from binge-drinking the night before, hit and hope football, actual racism and hooliganism from the stands... it truly was something. To be fair at least some teams showed the way, such as Liverpool under Paisley, but there's a reason why post World Cup win the national team fell off miles, and other countries laughed at the style of play our teams used.

 

Younger fans are much more accepting of new ideas; playing out from the back, changing formation mid-match / phase of play, keeping possession rather than needlessly giving it away.

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Awesome. The OAP's that infest our ground are gonna run away an actual good manager. Shame they couldn't do the same with Rodgers instead of just shouting 'But who do you replace him with?!' 

I'm sure it's not what he meant,  he must mean his bosess and his staff/team.

 

There's no way he's that weak willed that he'd walk away from a club because a section of support don't enjoy the football. If he is then he shouldn't be in the job.

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

We do play some exceptional stuff at times.

But the issue for me is the flapping around that leads us to concede opportunities or goals. Or set pieces to which we concede from.

 

Enjoy what he's trying to do and what's being implemented, but we don't half make life difficult 

I, for one, won't be happy unless Enzo successfully eradicates opportunities, set pieces and goals for the opposition. 

 

is that too much to ask!?

[FoxinNotts]

Not sure what some fans want! We do have a proper weird fanbase, at times!

We've conceded the fewest goals.

Scored the most goals in the league.

We pass teams to death (I'd much rather have it this way, than 'lumping it up front') in a controlled manner. It's the Italian way, which is fine by me. 

[Wymsey]

Football isn't always having to play the ball forward all the time.

Some forget that.

[Foxysausages]

1 minute ago, FoxinNotts said:

Not sure what some fans want! We do have a proper weird fanbase, at times!

We've conceded the fewest goals.

Scored the most goals in the league.

We pass teams to death (I'd much rather have it this way, than 'lumping it up front') in a controlled manner. It's the Italian way, which is fine by me. 

The Italian way is the best way. Worked well for us before. It's working good for us now. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

3 minutes ago, HybridFox said:

I'm not complaining but fans and atmospheres live off excitement. So can see frustrations on both sides of the fence.

 

The table doesn't lie, we are getting points on the board where we've been used to disappointment in the last couple of seasons. And there has been a progressive change in culture in how we play. Every one of us would have snapped your hand off to be in this position before the season started. No doubt Enzo is the man.

 

But there is a frustration in not killing off games and taking teams to the cleaners with the quality we have and I can understand that too. 

 

Yes we want to be able to control the game but continually passing the ball around our own six yard box when that's absolutely no pressure from the opposition who are completely dross will not bring big cheers from the fans. 

 

I can apprecitate wanting to play that way but then can't simultaneously have a dig at the atmosphere. The two don't go hand in hand.

 

Fans come to matches to be entertained, to escape from their busy lives. There's no reason when in ghe lead and playing well to not loosen the shackles a little bit and give the fans something to cheer about.

 

An analogy would be in cricket where they might only need a couple of runs an over to get over the line but you see players playing those big shots to excite the crowd and see them home. Fans live off that as do players.

 

Even bringing some of the subs on earlier to give them a proper run out to impress would do wonders imo

I agree about frustration and angst about not killing teams off, however that is not Enzo’s fault or as a result of the tactics, in fact it’s the opposite, most games we have several clear cut chances where either the keeper is forced to make a save or we let a great chance go begging. 
 

Let’s be clear last night at 1-0 we missed 3 sitters in front of goal when it was easier to score than miss. We create enough chances to put most games to bed, whilst I understand the frustrations when we do let points slip, it isn’t as a result of the tactics, it’s as a consequence that the level of players we have, are at a level where there conversion rate is not elite level. 

[Bob Weasel Fox]

It's simple just get behind the manager and the team

 

Support means exactly that

[Uncle Monty]

I for one will not complain if we are winning but style of football is entirely subjective.

 

I remember people saying the exact same thing about Sam Alladyce. I was actually happy when he got appointed as England manager, not particularly because I enjoyed his style of play but because it was sexy but because he valued winning above all else.

 

I don't enjoy the modern style of possession football, it lacks excitement and passion for me. 

 

If we are going to go with this style Enzo currently seems and great appointment and I'm glad he's here. He has to understand that his style is not everyone's cup of tea though. 

 

Saying he'll quit after fans being upset with too many back passes? It's a bit over dramatic. Would MUCH rather a Pearson style FOAD moment but to the whole crowd rather than a whiney comment in the safety of a press conference.

[Guest glasgowfox]

I understand what he is saying but that's life tbh....the man City fans were grumbling most of the match at their place the other year until Kompany scored a worldy.....you can't please all the people all of the time.   It is a minority imo but still understand it must be very irritating for maresca to hear.

[willie-bell-in-rothley]

For me it can be a hard watch but totally understand playing out from the back,

the problem for me is the amount of forward runs made by our players but not spotted and rather

easier options taken with passing it back, More with a forward passing vision would help find the runs made

[Lcfcwigstonblue]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

but often its boring to watch

It’s boring to watch when the opposition come and park the bus, however we still have found a way to win these games.

[TheGoldenGod]

I'm becoming increasingly detached from the match-going fanbase that's unfortunately become a bit of a plague which has spread across all areas. It has got to the point where you feel embarrassed to start a chant or cheer on the boys (albeit which I still do) for fear of being abused for standing up, or shouting next to some old fart with a prawn sarnie. I don't have a solution other than extremely unpopular idea about having uncomfortable conversations to those who sit in silence about potentially doing something else with their day instead. I cannot fathom going to a ground and not making a squeak when a goal goes in but moan incessantly over a backpass.

 

It's becoming tiresome and depressing and with each passing game it gets worse and now clearly Enzo's had enough. 

 

We are TEN points clear and dispatching of 90% of the division with ease and scoring lots of goals. Be careful what you wish for!

Edited 31 January by TheGoldenGod

[Foxysausages]

1 minute ago, Uncle Monty said:

I for one will not complain if we are winning but style of football is entirely subjective.

 

I remember people saying the exact same thing about Sam Alladyce. I was actually happy when he got appointed as England manager, not particularly because I enjoyed his style of play but because it was sexy but because he valued winning above all else.

 

I don't enjoy the modern style of possession football, it lacks excitement and passion for me. 

 

If we are going to go with this style Enzo currently seems and great appointment and I'm glad he's here. He has to understand that his style is not everyone's cup of tea though. 

 

Saying he'll quit after fans being upset with too many back passes? It's a bit over dramatic. Would MUCH rather a Pearson style FOAD moment but to the whole crowd rather than a whiney comment in the safety of a press conference.

People actually forget that he was one of the pioneers of sports science back in the 00s with the likes of Wenger and SAF. He revolutionised dietary requirements, body fat percentage, training regimes and how Science can be analysed and beneficial for the performance of not only a player but the entire squad. 

But now people see him as one the 'Brexitball' types and the game has passed him by. 

[Basildon Fox]

1 hour ago, Saxondale said:

It’s true. About 50% of our fans seem to think we should be playing like we’re Wimbledon of 1994.

 

Maresca’s system of play has been PROVEN to work, yet we have to put up with boneheads shouting “FORWARDS! QUICKER! GET ON WITH IT!”

 

The way we play is not too dissimilar to the way most teams play these days. I would suggest that if you don’t like football anymore, don’t bother watching it, because, your moaning is really annoying.

Why do people persist with this complete fabrication of facts. Anytime somebody puts a percentage and adds about to the sentence you can discount as a sad attempt at repping imo.

 

I find it disjointed and dull sometimes.  I am still fully behind the manager but wish we would beat the living shite out of some of these dross teams in this league.  You don't have to be Wimbledon to be more dynamic.

 

And one last thing.  Fans that pay the money are entitled to an opinion at the ground whether you agree with them or not.  Enzo should also accept this as he is being paid hansomely to do a job we would all love to do.  Ego is a big downfall of people.

[CosbehFox]

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Edited 31 January by CosbehFox

[Gubbins]

2 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

Not sure what some fans want! We do have a proper weird fanbase, at times!

We've conceded the fewest goals.

Scored the most goals in the league.

We pass teams to death (I'd much rather have it this way, than 'lumping it up front') in a controlled manner. It's the Italian way, which is fine by me. 

But we pass teams to death primarily with our defenders in our own half. Effective or not it isn't possible to make that entertaining to watch. It's painfully similar to how we played under puel and latter years Rodgers. The main difference being we are no longer playing teams with enough quality to press us into mistakes and then successfully exploit them.

[StriderHiryu]

4 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I'm already jotting down names (not literally) of the "you don't get it" posse that I'm sure will flip when results are going against us

 

I know you won't fell into that camp but there's plenty that just like to be part of the popular cool looking group and I'm here for it. It'll be interesting to hear thoughts from yourself and others next season to be fair when we're playing teams that are equal or better than us every week.

 

In advance, would you be looking at making changes to the way we set up/play right now. Or do you have full belief that this system can beat superior better teams consistently?

 

 

Great question! I'm already calling that it will be a sh*t show next season as we lose games like the way Brighton did last night. In general, I tend to back managers for a long time till it really is clear that it's time to go and I don't see that changing with this one.

 

I have coaching certificates myself. Do I think I will ever be a real manager? Sadly, only on Football manager, but it is something I think a lot about. I have my own company and I feel like there are a lot of similarities to running a company as there is in coaching a football team, no matter what the level. I think that's one reason why I find sports management fascinating.

• What happens if Plan A doesn't work? Do you keep at it or change? At my company, we are currently on Plan C . But it's working! If we kept to Plan A, it would have been over by now.
   
• Culture. You try to set up and define a culture. People you recruit that fit that culture take the company forwards, those that don't often cause chaos or have to be moved on. But what if you need to hire someone with a skill set that is essential, but they don't fit the culture? E.g. a legal specialist? What if the culture you setup in the first place was wrong? Then what?

 

To answer your question, I don't think this system can beat superior teams consistently. I do expect us to have some awesome results, e.g. playing this way, I could see us going to Man City and beating them 3-0 away with 55% possession. However, I could also see us losing 5-0 at home to West Ham despite having 75% possession. And yes it will be West Ham because of the way Moyes plays. They will bully the life out of Winks and Ricardo, and it has a high chance of working.

 

I personally would make changes, and have differing ways to play against certain opposition. The Southampton away game this season was the only one where a Championship team has had more possession than us 11vs11, but we spanked them. I would also change it on occasion against other teams, e.g. West Ham. Personally I would also be a bit more direct than Pep, Enzo, Arteta, etc. But it's notable how Klopp dialled back how attacking his teams are to be more control based. He did that for a reason!

 

However, I understand why coaches like Enzo have a meticulous plan that they stick to like glue. Communication in any organisation is difficult. Confusing your message is often a far worse crime, as staff / players get confused as to what to do. Let's be honest, footballers are not the smartest. Over the last 10 years, positional play has taken over from free-flowing artistry of classic number 10s' like Zidane, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Kaka, etc. But it's because when you are drilled day in, day out and know exactly what to do in a given situation, it becomes easy and at times automatic. So really you should only switch it up once your team has reached a certain mastery of the first system. And as of writing, we haven't! There are quite a few issues with the way we play, though overall it's clearly working.

[The Horse's Mouth]

The thing is when you actually put this into context, the style we’re playing isn’t dissimilar to what Brendan was cooking up, and to an extent what Puel tried as well. That’s nearly 8 years of this sideways passing slow build up play. I completely sympathise with people going week in week out that are sick of it. The end of Brendan should’ve been a different direction yet we’ve kinda just carried on the same. 

[Fox92]

14 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Football isn't always having to play the ball forward all the time.

Some forget that.

Brendan Rodgers said this.

 

He said something along the lines of going backwards isn't always negative.

 

I can't remember if it was this season or in a previous season but he said it. Fans criticised.

Edited 31 January by Fox92

[kingcarr21]

We are top of the league and running away with this division. Our goal difference is very impressive and we have multiple goalscorers across the squad. We couldnt have asked for more before the season began.

 

But i can see why people get annoyed and frustrated with the style. Take last night for example, the first 20 mins we were very successful at breaking the lines with the ball over the top. Mcateer was having a field day.

 

Then for the rest of the half we just seemed to slow the momentum down. Passing across the back for what seemed like an eternity. When we withdraw and play the safe football it does become tedious to watch. Then this invites pressure from the opposition and mistakes happen when passing around the back. This is why people end up screaming to go forward, in fear of making a mistake.

 

The 2 Ipswich results have got peoples backs up also. We go 1-0 up and then we look to play for that result. Inviting pressure and get done by a late equaliser. Which for a while it looked like a similar thing would happen last night. Lets not forget Swansea did get a late goal. 

 

The saving grace of last night were that we did still create a lot of chances, and whilst we are creating lots of chances i dont think any fan can sit there and really moan too much about the style. If we were tippy tappy at the back whilst providing nothing at all in attack i would understand the frustration.

 

 

[Muzzy_no7]

Clearly, most of those in the KP now don’t remember Wayne Brown lumping it to Steve Howard every 2-3 minutes and Waghorn feeding off scraps. 
 

They clearly don’t remember Lloyd Dyer flying past his man only to then leave the ball behind him or hit Row Z.

 

Maybe they’d like to see more of Stephen Hughes in midfield or Kevin Pressman getting lobbed by Andy Lonergan?

[Basildon Fox]

1 hour ago, Munshi said:

Reckon we’d be this comfortable in the championship under Rodgers?

If he had just come in and it was his first season then yes I do.  People forget about the first 2 1/2 years under him where we played some of the best football I have ever seen from a Leicester team because he is a knob.

[Fox92]

Just now, Muzzy_no7 said:

Clearly, most of those in the KP now don’t remember Wayne Brown lumping it to Steve Howard every 2-3 minutes and Waghorn feeding off scraps. 
 

They clearly don’t remember Lloyd Dyer flying past his man only to then leave the ball behind him or hit Row Z.

 

Maybe they’d like to see more of Stephen Hughes in midfield or Kevin Pressman getting lobbed by Andy Lonergan?

So, because we experienced that it means people can never criticise?

 

If we were bottom three would I have been okay criticisng? Or not because we once won the PL.

 

If you take that attitude then you'll live in the past forever.