Leeds United (A) 3-1 - Post-Match Thread

[VictorFox]

4 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Because fewer than half of the team playing now were playing in August.  That seems fair if we are making a comparison of who the best team is.  You know, actually comparing the teams and not a load of players who aren't actually at the club.

On September the 1st we were 7 points ahead of you and in the 30 games after that with you’re newly formed team you’ve narrowed the gap from 7 points to 6… good effort 

[Pub breath]

1 minute ago, Blarmy said:

And we had a perfectly good goal disallowed, which would have put us 0-2 up against the new team. Away. Your point? 

Dunno.  Norwich were 2-0 up against us at home with just over 20 mins left and we won 3-2.  Being 2-0 doesn't win you a game, especially not at ER.  It's a moot point as we will never know.

 

We deservedly beat you at your place too.

 

There is no logical argument to say you are head and shoulders the best team as things stand.

[Pub breath]

2 minutes ago, VictorFox said:

On September the 1st we were 7 points ahead of you and in the 30 games after that with you’re newly formed team you’ve narrowed the gap from 7 points to 6… good effort 

It is a good effort given what an incredible season youv'e had..  Cheers.  We are one point better since the two teams were recognisable as they are now.

[LCFCJohn]

10 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

The statement was that you are "head and shoulders" above anyone in this league.  As this side wasn't formed until the last day of August, that's what's being disputed.  Your gap was formed before then.  Since, we have more points.  Many of your fans also recognise your remaining games are tougher than ours which means they have been easier up to now.

 

Aye.  So far, you've had a better season but you are demonstrably not head and shoulders the best team.  Sorry but there's just no justification for that comment at this stage.

 

What I take from this is that if we do win the league and it’s by what, 7 points or less, Leeds will be having their own trophy lift and open top bus etc for the ‘we won the after August’ trophy?

[chapero82]

1 minute ago, Pub breath said:

Dunno.  Norwich were 2-0 up against us at home with just over 20 mins left and we won 3-2.  Being 2-0 doesn't win you a game, especially not at ER.  It's a moot point as we will never know.

 

We deservedly beat you at your place too.

 

There is no logical argument to say you are head and shoulders the best team as things stand.

We will see at the end of the season then won’t we? 

[Mickyblueeyes]

Are some of our fans really arguing with a Leeds fan as to who is the best side in the league after we capitulated in 10 minutes and lost 3-1 ? 
 

We capitulated - it doesn’t matter how well we played for the 80 mins before. That is not the mark of the “best side”. It’s one with desperate flaws. The best side concede and drag themselves through for a draw. An even better side regroup and make it 2-1. We are going to have to sit that argument out for a while. 

[LCFCJohn]

2 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Dunno.  Norwich were 2-0 up against us at home with just over 20 mins left and we won 3-2.  Being 2-0 doesn't win you a game, especially not at ER.  It's a moot point as we will never know.

 

We deservedly beat you at your place too.

 

There is no logical argument to say you are head and shoulders the best team as things stand.

You got a scrappy goal in a fairly even (and poor all round) game when we put in one of our worst performances. I have no idea if that night represented a top performance from your lot but there was nothing in it bad a scrappy set piece goal and a top save from Meilier!

[Tommy Fresh]

11 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

The statement was that you are "head and shoulders" above anyone in this league.  As this side wasn't formed until the last day of August, that's what's being disputed.  Your gap was formed before then.  Since, we have more points.  Many of your fans also recognise your remaining games are tougher than ours which means they have been easier up to now.

 

Aye.  So far, you've had a better season but you are demonstrably not head and shoulders the best team.  Sorry but there's just no justification for that comment at this stage.

 

Looking at upcoming and previous fixtures and saying we've had an easier season so far is a bit simplistic. It doesn't account for teams form at the time either of us played them or anything, as you repeatedly like to tell us you were that bad in August. So on paper it may look like a sides had a tough start playing you in August but they haven't really as your club was in such a state apparently.

[Pub breath]

14 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Pride comes before a fall

two weeks ago, Southampton were unbeaten in 20 games and going to saunter to second place, its a funny old game and your biggest task now is how farke is mentally going to handle the dip when you only win one out of three - it’s coming at some point. it’s football mate. 

Not pride at all.  Got no interest in that  It's objective analysis based on logical premises.  That's why I've been careful with my words and said "at the minute".

 

If Leicester push on and finish 14 points ahead of Leeds, they have been comfortably the best team over the season.  I'll come on here, congratulate you and recognise that.  I still think you'll win the league BTW and have said that all season.  I think a few people are confusing my questioning of the poster's words with hubris or an assertion that Leeds are the best team in the league.  I have not stated that whatsoever.

 

I'm only talking about now.  I can't predict the future.  Right now, Leicester are not clearly the best team in the league and have not been since August.  Demonstrably.

Edited 25 February by Pub breath

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Are some of our fans really arguing with a Leeds fan as to who is the best side in the league after we capitulated in 10 minutes and lost 3-1 ? 
 

We capitulated - it doesn’t matter how well we played for the 80 mins before. That is not the mark of the “best side”. It’s one with desperate flaws. The best side concede and drag themselves through for a draw. An even better side regroup and make it 2-1. We are going to have to sit that argument out for a while. 

So because we lost we can't still be the best side in the league? 

[Mickyblueeyes]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

So because we lost we can't still be the best side in the league? 

No I don’t think we can at this moment, not at all. Having said that, I don’t think Leeds can either. We are certainly not at this time head and shoulders over everyone else. I don’t think that is a controversial thing to say. 
 

I don’t know if anyone remembers that Liverpool game at the KP during COVID. We won 3-1. Liverpool capitulated in the last 10. Klopp had a tantrum and went off on how they deserved it and that they were such a good side. It sounded daft. I’m applying the same logic here. 
 

That performance makes it difficult to say we are the best side. That applies to both teams who had some serious shortcomings. 

[Tommy Fresh]

2 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

No I don’t think we can at this moment, not at all. Having said that, I don’t think Leeds can either. We are certainly not at this time head and shoulders over everyone else. I don’t think that is a controversial thing to say. 
 

I don’t know if anyone remembers that Liverpool game at the KP during COVID. We won 3-1. Liverpool capitulated in the last 10. Klopp had a tantrum and went off on how they deserved it and that they were such a good side. It sounded daft. I’m applying the same logic here. 
 

That performance makes it difficult to say we are the best side. That applies to both teams who had some serious shortcomings. 

That's deserving to win a game though, not being the best side overall so far.

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Not pride at all.  Got no interest in that  It's objective analysis based on logical premises.  That's why I've been careful with my words and said "at the minute".

 

If Leicester push on and finish 14 points ahead of Leeds, they have been comfortably the best team over the season.  I'll come on here, congratulate you and recognise that.  I still think you'll win the league BTW and have said that all season.  I think a few people are confusing my questioning of the poster's words with hubris or an assertion that Leeds are the best team in the league.  I have not stated that whatsoever.

 

I'm only talking about now.  I can't predict the future.  Right now, Leicester are not clearly the best team in the league and have not been since August.  Demonstrably.

I never mentioned us. I think we’re irrelevant in the race for second. 
 

‘price comes before a fall’ is a saying. Look it up if you haven’t heard it 

you’re flying now but there are 12 games left. You won’t win 21 games straight. It doesn’t happen. That’s was all I was saying.  How you deal with the draws and defeats will define where you finish. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

4 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

That's deserving to win a game though, not being the best side overall so far.

And I think that’s the point he is making. We can’t now say we “head and shoulders” above anyone. We just can’t. 
 

Leeds will lose again though and given how Saints have reacted to their first loss in many, it will be interesting to see how they do. 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

And I think that’s the point he is making. We can’t now say we “head and shoulders” above anyone. We just can’t. 
 

Leeds will lose again though and given how Saints have reacted to their first loss in many, it will be interesting to see how they do. 

I mean my initial post was about him talking about Leeds being this unstoppable force since the end of August. I think we can at the minute say we've been the best team in the league, head and shoulders a bit far I agree with.

[Leeds Fox]

So how many points did Leeds drop in that first month? 6? 
 

Obviously they’d have won them all if Farke had his team settled.

[CosbehFox]

53 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Read the Gaurdian article then.  I just have. They said Piroe should have scored and Gnonto could have scored a hattrick.  Not my words but a journalist 

 

 

I agree with your statement (Piroe in particular should have squared to Summerville) but that guardian match report is laughable. I wouldn’t expect anything else from Louise Taylor whose totally woeful at match reports 

[Nolucklcfc]

I think we are better than Leeds but not head and shoulders. We have a desperate flaw of conceding late goals. You can’t be head and shoulders above everyone else with these flaws. 

[Pub breath]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I agree with your statement (Piroe in particular should have squared to Summerville) but that guardian match report is laughable. I wouldn’t expect anything else from Louise Taylor whose totally woeful at match reports 

Which, whilst maybe fair, is also a subjective point.

 

I tend to trust opinions a whole load less than facts.  As imperfect as XG/XP are, they tend to work out pretty well over extended periods.  Teams wirh greater possession, attempts, attempts on target etc tend to gain more points over an extended period.  That can scrub away some of the judgement errors in the "feel" of things or confirmation biases.

 

As fans, we generally want to believe we are better/more hard done by/more unlucky etc than we probably are in reality.  Emotions cloud judgements.

[Pub breath]

16 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

So how many points did Leeds drop in that first month? 6? 
 

Obviously they’d have won them all if Farke had his team settled.

7 and then 2 more at home vs Wednesday in the first game in September before we started to gel.  We would likely spank them if we played that match now.

 

I realise that you probably don't want it it to be true but you have to try and explain why we averaged a point a game for the first 5 games and 2.3 ppg since?  That's 6.5 points dropped from the average since or 5 in August if we discount that Wednesday game.  I think even the most stubborn non-Leeds fan could probably admit that the difference in results before and after that period, may have a logical explanation.

 

Of course not getting a manager until 3 weeks before the start of the season and having players force moves away in his first month in charge with most new signings waiting until the end of August, hugely impacted our start.  It would any team.  Do you not believe it did, if you're dead honest with yourself?

 

 

[Leeds Fox]

54 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

7 and then 2 more at home vs Wednesday in the first game in September before we started to gel.  We would likely spank them if we played that match now.

 

I realise that you probably don't want it it to be true but you have to try and explain why we averaged a point a game for the first 5 games and 2.3 ppg since?  That's 6.5 points dropped from the average since or 5 in August if we discount that Wednesday game.  I think even the most stubborn non-Leeds fan could probably admit that the difference in results before and after that period, may have a logical explanation.

 

Of course not getting a manager until 3 weeks before the start of the season and having players force moves away in his first month in charge with most new signings waiting until the end of August, hugely impacted our start.  It would any team.  Do you not believe it did, if you're dead honest with yourself?

 

 

Thanks, wasn’t sure how many it was.

 

I understand Leeds fans thought process on this. However a football club having success goes far deeper than the manager and playing squad.

 

The issues you faced were the fault of Leeds Utd Football Club.

 

I think we’ll both be promoted. Definitely the best 2 sides by a long way. 

[Pub breath]

13 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

The issues you faced were the fault of Leeds Utd Football Club.

I'd say yes and no.  The fault for all this mess was down to one man.  Radrizzani.  He had nothing to do with the club before he bought it and has nothing to do with the club now.  He was a steward and the mess he got us in to and left behind is not the fault of the institution, LUFC.

 

But the discussion wasn't even about who's fault was what.  It was about who the better team is and whether Leeds results before September were representative of the present team or not.

 

[woody01530]

Leicester were on top & 'in the groove' for 80 mins.

After leeds got the equaliser, only their 2nd shot on target, their intensity was incredible.

I do believe if the disallowed goal had stood leeds would not have turned it around.

[White fan man]

You have yo question your manager on his substitutions which played into Leeds' hands. Conversely, all Leeds' substitutes made an impact, especially Dan James who had your right side on toast. This is what pushed you back and allowed both full backs forward, and both made or scored two of our goals. Dan James didn't  start because Gnonto scored 5 in 5 while James was injured. If we played Leicester again next week James, Bamford & Byram would all start over those that started on Friday night.

[sbfox]

4 hours ago, Pub breath said:

Not pride at all.  Got no interest in that  It's objective analysis based on logical premises.  That's why I've been careful with my words and said "at the minute".

 

If Leicester push on and finish 14 points ahead of Leeds, they have been comfortably the best team over the season.  I'll come on here, congratulate you and recognise that.  I still think you'll win the league BTW and have said that all season.  I think a few people are confusing my questioning of the poster's words with hubris or an assertion that Leeds are the best team in the league.  I have not stated that whatsoever.

 

I'm only talking about now.  I can't predict the future.  Right now, Leicester are not clearly the best team in the league and have not been since August.  Demonstrably.

This is stupid. Aside from arguing with someone who is clearly on the wind up, the only objective measure we have is... Dun dun duhhhh... The league table. Which we currently lead by 6 points. So yes, we are the clearly the best team in the league up to this precise moment in time. That's not even with blue tinted glasses on, it's a fact. 

Edited 25 February by sbfox