Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[davieG]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

Is the big 6 still a thing now? Shouldn't it be the big 4 as Chelsea are going to find it difficult to return in the same way the world's richest club can't muscle in with the current rules? Tottenham are positioned about the same as West Ham and Villa.

They've still got plenty of money to get back. It's also down to how well the are known abroad. I  suspect Spurs is higher profile than WH or Villa as well.

[st albans fox]

23 hours ago, Vazman said:

Are they in breech as well then? 

I think their three year running total is 90m 

To end June 2024 they have to get to 83m 

I don’t know what sales they did post July 1 last summer so don’t know what they need to do this June.  

[Matt]

3 hours ago, moore_94 said:

I imagine if we do go up and our accounts look horrendous again for this season (which I expect they will) then we could get similar to what Sheff Utd have just got

 

Although Sheff Utd didn't get it for FFP/PSR etc., I expect it is something the EFL would want to do to us to make sure they "get us"

 

Thing is, yes we've been spending a ridiculous amount of wages and it's indefensible, sickening and disgusting, however (I'm going to defend it) regarding the EFL...

 

We were a Premier League team, our place in the 'food chain' was around 7th or above (I say 7th because I believe we had the 7th highest wage bill in the PL) in the Premier League, challenging and competing for European places, negligence on and off the field resulted in relegation all in the space of one season (We were honking the place out for many years before that but even so).

 

We made big sales, got rid of some high earners.

 

What else were we supposed to do? Get rid of everyone?

 

The only thing I would criticise is why on earth sign Coady and Cannon, we've not played them, money we didn't need to spend, wages we didn't need to spend.

 

Edited 11 April by Matt

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

Is it me or does it not just skew it in favour of the big six still (considering they are more profitable clubs and already have extortionately better finances), and doesn't actually do anything to level up the playing field? 

Unless I'm mistaken it's majorly worse. If they've removed amortisation of transfer fees over the length of the players contract as well then it will be impossible to compete. 

 

As it stands at the minute bearing in mind what can be deducted for PSR that tends to be somewhere in the region of £20-40m a season for some clubs + an average of a £35m loss per year + 15% less revenue being allowed to be used then you're talking about most clubs cutting their spending by over a third or more a season.

 

How on earth has this been voted in?

[Stinkenzo]

15 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

Thing is, yes we've been spending a ridiculous amount of wages and it's indefensible, sickening and disgusting, however (I'm going to defend it) regarding the EFL...

 

We were a Premier League team, our place in the 'food chain' was around 7th or above (I say 7th because I believe we had the 7th highest wage bill in the PL) in the Premier League, challenging and competing for European places, negligence on and off the field resulted in relegation all in the space of one season (We were honking the place out for many years before that but even so).

 

We made big sales, got rid of some high earners.

 

What else were we supposed to do? Get rid of everyone?

 

The only thing I would criticise is why on earth sign Coady and Cannon, we've not played them, money we didn't need to spend, wages we didn't need to spend.

 

Cannon is a weird one. Seemed a little less weird around the new year when he was getting game time but is now weird again. Might become less weird if he's our first choice next season 

 

Coady it's possible Vestergaard forced his way into the starting XI unexpectedly when he was injured for the first month of the season 

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

They've still got plenty of money to get back. It's also down to how well the are known abroad. I  suspect Spurs is higher profile than WH or Villa as well.

Chelsea may have the money but then again so do Newcastle and they can't spend it within the current rules.

[st albans fox]

27 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Unless I'm mistaken it's majorly worse. If they've removed amortisation of transfer fees over the length of the players contract as well then it will be impossible to compete. 

 

As it stands at the minute bearing in mind what can be deducted for PSR that tends to be somewhere in the region of £20-40m a season for some clubs + an average of a £35m loss per year + 15% less revenue being allowed to be used then you're talking about most clubs cutting their spending by over a third or more a season.

 

How on earth has this been voted in?

Under the proposed new regime, clubs will only be allowed to spend a set percentage of their annual turnover on the wage bill for the first team and its coaching staff, plus the amortised costs of their transfer fees and all agents’ fees.

Amortisation is how transfers are accounted for in club’s financial reports, with the cost of acquiring players, including fee and salary, spread out over the length of their contracts.

The major difference between the Premier League and UEFA regulations will be that the Premier League will operate a two-tier system, with clubs playing in European competition only able to spend 70 per cent of their turnover, while clubs not competing in Europe able to spend 85 per cent.

Contrary to recent reports, clubs that breach the Premier League’s rules will still be subject to points deductions.

Edited 11 April by st albans fox

[Ric Flair]

27 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Under the proposed new regime, clubs will only be allowed to spend a set percentage of their annual turnover on the wage bill for the first team and its coaching staff, plus the amortised costs of their transfer fees and all agents’ fees.

Amortisation is how transfers are accounted for in club’s financial reports, with the cost of acquiring players, including fee and salary, spread out over the length of their contracts.

The major difference between the Premier League and UEFA regulations will be that the Premier League will operate a two-tier system, with clubs playing in European competition only able to spend 70 per cent of their turnover, while clubs not competing in Europe able to spend 85 per cent.

Contrary to recent reports, clubs that breach the Premier League’s rules will still be subject to points deductions.

Unless I'm missing something here, this is a major limitation to the non big 6, far more so than the current rules.

[Nick]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

 

Thing is, yes we've been spending a ridiculous amount of wages and it's indefensible, sickening and disgusting, however (I'm going to defend it) regarding the EFL...

 

We were a Premier League team, our place in the 'food chain' was around 7th or above (I say 7th because I believe we had the 7th highest wage bill in the PL) in the Premier League, challenging and competing for European places, negligence on and off the field resulted in relegation all in the space of one season (We were honking the place out for many years before that but even so).

 

We made big sales, got rid of some high earners.

 

What else were we supposed to do? Get rid of everyone?

 

The only thing I would criticise is why on earth sign Coady and Cannon, we've not played them, money we didn't need to spend, wages we didn't need to spend.

 

On the last point I think we expected to sell but the sale’s collapsed.

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Unless I'm missing something here, this is a major limitation to the non big 6, far more so than the current rules.

If we take us when we were turning over £215m. 
On wages, amortised transfer spend and agents fees we can spend 

inside europe  150m 

outside europe 182m 

 

I’m not sure how transfer income is accounted for in the system. transfer spend is annual amortised amount as per now 

 

but wages will have to be well down on where they were  

 

Perhaps owners of the other 14 have decided that this system means they won’t have to dig into their own pockets as much as they do now.. if all clubs are in a similar position then they’ve basically given up on trying to break into the top six. But the reality is that they can’t spend what they need to now in any case and they end up pumping in their own money to try and compete. You’re probably right that this makes the difference between the rich six and the rest even bigger but owners may be thinking about their own dosh.  

[urban.spaceman]

What is the ****ing point in bothering to compete any more?

[orangecity23]

3 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

So, you can only compete by spending money that you earn,

 

 

But the money that you earn, especially from broadcast and commercial, is significantly higher if you have more games broadcast

This graph is the crux of the whole problem for me. It clearly shows just how imbalanced the whole league is. Man United last won the league years before we did. Tottenham last won it  season after Bunley did. In the 1960s. Yet their broadcast revenue alone is more than our entire income. They get 4 times as much broadcast revenue as Fulham get. Then on top of that, their commercial revenue alone, is more than our entire turnover AGAIN. Tottenham's position is almost entirely based around the fact they are from London and promoted disproportionately heavily by the London based media. The big 6 clubs essentially get a monopoly on media coverage, as they are treated like the only show in town, which creates a feedback loop where stupid companies like Nivea, Cadburys, TeamViewer and Chevrolet fall over themselves to funnel more hundreds of millions into the gaping maw of the big 6 in an attempt to market themselves to the brainddead sofa fans who "Support" whoever Sky Sports tells them are the BIGGEST BESTEST TEAM, beause actually following a proper club is too much for these glory seeking losers.

 

There is no financial fair play, or level playing field. The whole of football is balanced on a massive incline above a pit, and every other club in the country is being shoved into the abyss by the greedy 6 sitting at the top of the pile taking an ever bigger slice of all the pies they can get their grubby little mitts on.

 

So, in the spirit of improving football - I would like to present my modest proposal to save football.

 

I call it "The Standard Oil Solution"

 

Those who know a bit about American history will know about Standard Oil. They were the biggest, most successful oil company in the world, when lamp oil became the go to product to light people's homes. They engaged in many dodgy business practices to run their competitors out of business. They had price fixing agreements with Railways to transport their products at a low price, whilst guranteeing to charge competitors more to ship their oil. At the height of their powers, they controlled 91% of the oil production market in the United States, and they made John Rockefeller the richest man on the planet. However, the US Government took them to court for breaking the Sherman Anti-Trust act, a piece of legislation designed to "prohibit anticompetitive agreements and unilateral conduct that monopolizes or attempts to monopolize the relevant market." They won, and forced Standard Oil to seperate into 34 different companies, that went on to become companies like Exxon Mobil and Esso (ESS - OH, aka S.O. - Standard Oil) today.

 

So my solution, is that a anti-trust type measure should be inflicted upon the big 6. They are definitely responsible for anti-competitive agreements and attempts to monoplize the market. So - they should get the Standard Oil treatment.

Namely:

1) Manchester United will be broken up into many different teams, based in the primary locations of their fanbase. There will be a Manchester United of Ireland, a Manchester United of Wales, a Manchester United of China and so on.

2) These teams will be forced to start off in the lowest tier of the leagues of the countries they are based in.

3) Manchester United of Manchester will be allowed to remain in Manchester, starting in the lowest amateur league in England. Old Trafford will be knocked down (or just wait for it to fall down on its own).

4) Manchester United of Manchester will be a club only viewable for people who live in the Manchester area, and there will be "Catchment areas" for other clubs in the area (Bolton, Oldham etc) where if people live within them, they are barred from buying a ticket or entering a ground to watch Manchester United.

5) Manchester United of Manchester will be completely banned from all television stations in the UK and worldwide. A 20 second highlight video of tehir games may be aired on whatever their equivalent is of East Milands Today, but may only be shown after the highlights of Bolton, Oldham, etc etc and must be edited to be of a length shorter than all other local results shown.

6) Any trophies previously won by Manchester United are no longer recognised as valid, as they were the result of an illegal monoply, thus no images of English or European football trophies may be used in promotional materials or advertising

7) Singing that shit 20 times song, or "You've only come to see YANITED", or chanting "YANITED" in a performatively fake mancunian accent will be classed as a public order offence, liable for several weeks imprisonment, during which time the guilty party will receive a re-education course on how to follow a real football team and not a fake plastic brand for ego tossers.

8) "Manchester United" to become a censored phrase on social media

9) The Above rules will also be applied to Liverpool, Manchester City, Chelsea and Arsenal

10) All the Above rules except for 6) will be applied to Tottenham Hotspur, as it is believed that no actual images outside of Cave Paintings actually exist showing Tottenham winning a trophy.

11) None of the above is an unfair, or unwarranted set of legislature, and is in no way motivated by having attended School in the 1990s and having to grow up around insufferable little turds who 'support' Manchester United and never attended a game in the entire lives. Honest.

Edited 11 April by orangecity23
Typos galore

[st albans fox]

We competed for several seasons recently

West Ham have completed for several season recently 

Newcastle competed last season 
villa are competing this season 

 

it’s not just about how much you spend.  Yes it stacks the odds very firmly in your favour but recent history tells us that it’s not the be all and end all. The mistakes around recruitment and inflated contracts is what screws you over. 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

FFP is about keeping a cartel of clubs at home and in Europe at the top of the tree, nothing to do will safe guarding clubs.

 

 

 

 

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

If we take us when we were turning over £215m. 
On wages, amortised transfer spend and agents fees we can spend 

inside europe  150m 

outside europe 182m 

 

I’m not sure how transfer income is accounted for in the system. transfer spend is annual amortised amount as per now 

 

but wages will have to be well down on where they were  

 

Perhaps owners of the other 14 have decided that this system means they won’t have to dig into their own pockets as much as they do now.. if all clubs are in a similar position then they’ve basically given up on trying to break into the top six. But the reality is that they can’t spend what they need to now in any case and they end up pumping in their own money to try and compete. You’re probably right that this makes the difference between the rich six and the rest even bigger but owners may be thinking about their own dosh.  

It was good that they made the adaption to turnover, Given the differences in headline revenue figures between the biggest and smallest clubs in the Premier League it was unrealistic to expect smaller clubs to remain competitive while spending just 70 per cent of turnover.

 

[Matt]

33 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

We competed for several seasons recently

West Ham have completed for several season recently 

Newcastle competed last season 
villa are competing this season 

 

it’s not just about how much you spend.  Yes it stacks the odds very firmly in your favour but recent history tells us that it’s not the be all and end all. The mistakes around recruitment and inflated contracts is what screws you over. 

 

 

Purely going off of this seasons accounts Brighton seem to have bucked the trend.

 

You can only assume this will change dramatically in the years to come, one would assume it'll be virtually impossible to sustain, but they do seem quite fluid in how their model works, always looking for opportunities to streamline extra incomes from multiple avenues, quite transparent in their business and their senior figures will talk openly - of course if things start going south we might see less of that transparency and openness to talk publicly. 

 

Once upon a time we looked like a good 'model', then we gave a certain manager the keys to the club.

[Greg2607]

11 hours ago, Matt said:

Purely going off of this seasons accounts Brighton seem to have bucked the trend.

 

You can only assume this will change dramatically in the years to come, one would assume it'll be virtually impossible to sustain, but they do seem quite fluid in how their model works, always looking for opportunities to streamline extra incomes from multiple avenues, quite transparent in their business and their senior figures will talk openly - of course if things start going south we might see less of that transparency and openness to talk publicly. 

 

Once upon a time we looked like a good 'model', then we gave a certain manager the keys to the club.

They have.... but brighton also currently sit in 10th place in the league....  It's not exactly a "major success" on the pitch, albeit, they are clearly well run off of it.....   once the vultures have swarmed and picked off their best talent, coupled with a few duff purchases.... they could very quickly find themselves at the wrong end of the table again... 

 

 

[Chelmofox]

22 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

They have.... but brighton also currently sit in 10th place in the league....  It's not exactly a "major success" on the pitch, albeit, they are clearly well run off of it.....   once the vultures have swarmed and picked off their best talent, coupled with a few duff purchases.... they could very quickly find themselves at the wrong end of the table again... 

All those who fawn over Brighton ignore the fact that they are having a very average season. 2 points ahead of 12th place and a long way off qualifying spots for Europe. If their players don't perform where are the big transfer fees going to come from? 

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

All those who fawn over Brighton ignore the fact that they are having a very average season. 2 points ahead of 12th place and a long way off qualifying spots for Europe. If their players don't perform where are the big transfer fees going to come from? 

Fair but many of their good players are still performing. They’ve had big injuries and their squad isn’t as deep as the one we had.  So instead of being able to buy someone for £5m and sell them for £60m, they’ll have to make do with £40m. That’s still a mile away from where we ended up with no one even prepared to cover the amortised value of what we were selling because of the ridiculous wages we were paying. (Plus we’d overpaid for average players) 

[Chelmofox]

17 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Fair but many of their good players are still performing. They’ve had big injuries and their squad isn’t as deep as the one we had.  So instead of being able to buy someone for £5m and sell them for £60m, they’ll have to make do with £40m. That’s still a mile away from where we ended up with no one even prepared to cover the amortised value of what we were selling because of the ridiculous wages we were paying. (Plus we’d overpaid for average players) 

How is 2 points ahead of Bournemouth 'performing'? I agree its a mile away from where we ended up but even us coming 8th was seen as underperforming.  At some point, for Brighton to actually deserve this accolade as a great club, they are actually going to have to achieve something. Once you start slipping backwards, it can be pretty difficult to change course.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Chelmofox said:

How is 2 points ahead of Bournemouth 'performing'? I agree its a mile away from where we ended up but even us coming 8th was seen as underperforming.  At some point, for Brighton to actually deserve this accolade as a great club, they are actually going to have to achieve something. Once you start slipping backwards, it can be pretty difficult to change course.

Some of their decent players can still be ‘performing’ whilst the general output of the team isn’t good enough. Just because the team isn’t getting results doesn’t mean certain players aren’t still maintaining their value .

[moore_94]

https://www.efl.com/news/2024/april/12/efl-statement--leicester-city/
 

On 22 March 2024 Leicester City Football Club announced they had commenced urgent legal proceedings against the EFL and the Premier League.

 

This followed the Club’s referral to an independent Premier League Disciplinary Commission for an alleged breach of the Profitability and Sustainability Rules (P&S), ending in financial year 2022/23. The Club had also been placed under an EFL registration embargo, in accordance with Profitability & Sustainability Rule 2.10.1, after filing its 2023/24 P&S calculation.

 

One element of the Club’s legal proceedings involved an application to a League arbitration panel under the EFL Regulations in which it accused the EFL, amongst other things, of acting ‘unlawfully by conspiring with the Premier League to use unlawful means and to procure or induce a breach of contract by the Premier League’ in relation to its proceedings against the Club.

 

The Club made an application for an interim injunction to prevent the EFL from imposing a sporting sanction in the current 2023/24 season. 

 

Leicester City sent no letter before action and issued the proceedings without notice. 

The core issue in question was whether the EFL has the ability under its Regulations to apply a points deduction in its competition if ordered by a Premier League Disciplinary Commission.  

 

Having taken legal advice, the EFL has confirmed to all parties that whilst it would want to respect any decision of a Premier League Disciplinary commission (and vice versa) to deduct points in the EFL, it does not have the power under the Regulations as currently drafted. 

 

On the basis of that confirmation, the League Arbitration Panel held that the Club’s application for an interim injunction was neither necessary nor appropriate. The League Arbitration Panel dismissed the Club’s application accordingly. 

 

Click here to read the decision.  

 

It remains a matter for Leicester City to comply with the P&S rules in all circumstances. In accordance with the League’s established processes, the EFL will continue to apply the P&S rules to ensure all Clubs meet their financial obligations so the competition can continue to operate in a fair and consistent manner.

[moore_94]

https://www.lcfc.com/news/3963781/lcfc-statement

 

LCFC notes the publication today of the decision of the League Arbitration Panel(LAP).

 

As the LAP decision records, the EFL wrote to the Premier League on 20 March 2024 (the day before the PL brought its PSR complaint against LCFC), stating that the EFL would ensure that any sanction imposed by a Premier League Disciplinary Commission against LCFC would take effect while LCFC was in the Championship, whilst also noting that any points deduction sought by the Premier League would need to be applied before 4 May 2024.

 

However, after the Club challenged the EFL’s intention to act outside of its rules, the EFL subsequently unconditionally accepted that it does not in fact have any power, from any source, to impose a points deduction in the EFL which has been ordered by a Premier League Disciplinary Commission in relation to PSR.

 

LCFC continues to try and co-operate constructively with both the Premier League and the EFL to reach a lawful resolution of any issues relating to PSR, in accordance with our consistent commitment that any charges against the Club should be properly and proportionately determined, in accordance with the applicable rules, by the right bodies, and at the right time.

[Bert]

So they wanted us to have points deducted this season but the EFL don’t have a leg to stand on. 
 

Even more reason to deal with these last few games. 

[Onions]

We’re at the point we’ve beaten the EFL so much they should be giving us points 😂