Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[Scotch]

8 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Also if we do need to sell "assets" to comply, other clubs will be aware we are desperate and the likes of KDH/Ricky P and Ndidi could go for very little money comparatively. 

Ndidi is out of contract, is he not? 

[Sly]

If we are in such a financial mess, we will potentially go into next season in the Premier League with a worse squad than we have now.

 

As long as we are covering ourselves as we are not likely to go bankrupt, then the entire FFP system is a joke. 

[Chrysalis]

On 05/03/2024 at 14:11, pkonline said:

We don't know the details or even if this is an issue, so a little premature some folk having a meltdown on here and social media.

 

The same moaners now are the ones who also moan when we don't sign anyone - which we haven't been able to last few windows because of FFP compliance!

 

Remember, we breached FFP with Vichai in 2013/14 and were fined so things were not all that rosy back then.

Is everything premature, until its umm happened?

 

Relegation fears for last season, blowing CL twice, failing to get a fax sent and more.

[dannythefox]

Think people are panicking too much over this. We’re fine at the moment, get promoted we’ll be fine because that would be before the end of June plus we could sell a player if needed. The problem the leagues have is changing the rules because Leicester have got round them. Some will say it’s clever some will say cheating but it’s not really, about time we had some luck like this.

[TheGoldenGod]

1 hour ago, dannythefox said:

Think people are panicking too much over this. We’re fine at the moment, get promoted we’ll be fine because that would be before the end of June plus we could sell a player if needed. The problem the leagues have is changing the rules because Leicester have got round them. Some will say it’s clever some will say cheating but it’s not really, about time we had some luck like this.

I have faith the rules will change soon enough, they simply are not fit for purpose. That's clear in the fact that everyone's being hit with reports that "points deductions are looming" so something's gone drastically wrong, no?

You know its bad when the Forest lot have been white knighting our plight. It's a system suited to strengthen the Big 6 and force us to sell to them for cut prices. Farcical!

[Mickyblueeyes]

These new rules and the impact on clubs outside the top 6 (Chelsea haven’t been top 6 for 2 years now), will mean either they are revised or the authorities will face an anti-competitive class action from the “others”. 
 

You don’t even need an in-depth review to work out the rules discriminate against some and benefit a minority. Perhaps impact less so others than benefit. 

[pkonline]

2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Is everything premature, until its umm happened?

 

Relegation fears for last season, blowing CL twice, failing to get a fax sent and more.

We also won the League, FA Cup, finished Europe a few seasons.

Cup half full or half empty?

Most football supporters would bite your arm off for anything like that.

 

And clubs that are lauded at present, like Villa and Brighton, haven't achieved anything like that in the past few years.

[Sambiasso]

We simply cannot keep playing with fire when it comes to finances.

Against all financial advice we kept pushing to sign Jack Harrison on 100k a week.

 

From the boardroom, playing side and fan base we need a massive reset so the sooner it comes the better. 

 

 

[UniFox21]

3 minutes ago, Sambiasso said:

We simply cannot keep playing with fire when it comes to finances.

Against all financial advice we kept pushing to sign Jack Harrison on 100k a week.

 

From the boardroom, playing side and fan base we need a massive reset so the sooner it comes the better. 

 

 

You'd have hoped the relegation would have done that. 

We've had a half reset in playing side, the remains should be done this summer. 

 

I'm still in absolute disbelief that no one has lost their jobs in the board. We've gone from the well-run club modelled by others, to that club you're just waiting for the next issue. 

 

But I don't think we're alone there.

[Scanchez]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, sign Adam Le Fondre on loan for the remainder of the season and everything will be alright.

[pkonline]

The club can't ever please everyone. They'd get as much stick not spending XYZ of player ABC with the nonsense "transfer window" bonanza. And they get stick for not spending so much the last 2-3yrs - primarily, as we now know, due to FFP rules.

 

We're not a big top 6 club with massive revenues - we don't have millions of supporters buying tickets and merch, we don't have all the lucrative sponsors etc. We're like most other clubs - just trying to get by - and occasionally get lucky.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

12 hours ago, MadsEmil said:

Rudkin needs to be sacked pronto

 

How someone in charge can bring the club to the brink of existence and not see consequences is beyond me.

 

You’re misunderstanding the position.

 

King Power continue to underwrite losses in the form of converting debt to equity - that’s part of what PS&R requires.

 

So the club remains solvent.

 

The issue is the prescribed boundaries for the amount of losses that are ‘allowable’ under each leagues PS&R rules.

 

For a club of Leicester’s relative income size and ambition, £100 odd million in losses over a 3 year rolling period really isn’t that much.

 

But that £100 odd million is based on 3 consecutive years in the Premier League - the allowable losses in the Championship are much lower (upto £13 million a season compared with £35 million).

 

Promotion this season would therefore mean the allowable losses over the rolling 3 year period would be £83 million.

 

With the last set of published accounts showing a loss of £92 million (March 2022), things obviously don’t look great for our PS&R calculation going forwards.

 

BUT - what we don’t know is how much allowable expenditure is contained within that years loss and would therefore be exempt from the clubs separate PS&R calculation.

 

Expenditure towards the clubs infrastructure, youth academy and women’s football are set aside from the calculation - and we know the club has put a considerable amount of expenditure into those areas over the last few years.

 

So the club could be within the financial parameters it needs to be.

 

HOWEVER! 

 

What shouldn’t be in doubt is we are likely running close to the line - and there’s a fair reason for that.

 

A second season in the Championship would not only mean a further years reduced income for the club - it would also add a second year of lower allowed losses onto the PS&R calculation (£61 million over 3 years - assuming promotion at the end of year 2).

 

That makes going up this season really important for the clubs ongoing PS&R calculation as things stands.

[Chrysalis]

1 hour ago, pkonline said:

We also won the League, FA Cup, finished Europe a few seasons.

Cup half full or half empty?

Most football supporters would bite your arm off for anything like that.

 

And clubs that are lauded at present, like Villa and Brighton, haven't achieved anything like that in the past few years.

Which is relevant to my post how?

 

You gone from saying people are having a meltdown due to being concerned, and justifying that because we we have won some things, totally unrelated.

Maybe what you meant is if it happens its all ok in your eyes because of past good times, then you should have said that in the first place.

[pkonline]

24 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

You’re misunderstanding the position.

 

King Power continue to underwrite losses in the form of converting debt to equity - that’s part of what PS&R requires.

 

So the club remains solvent.

 

The issue is the prescribed boundaries for the amount of losses that are ‘allowable’ under each leagues PS&R rules.

 

For a club of Leicester’s relative income size and ambition, £100 odd million in losses over a 3 year rolling period really isn’t that much.

 

But that £100 odd million is based on 3 consecutive years in the Premier League - the allowable losses in the Championship are much lower (upto £13 million a season compared with £35 million).

 

Promotion this season would therefore mean the allowable losses over the rolling 3 year period would be £83 million.

 

With the last set of published accounts showing a loss of £92 million (March 2022), things obviously don’t look great for our PS&R calculation going forwards.

 

BUT - what we don’t know is how much allowable expenditure is contained within that years loss and would therefore be exempt from the clubs separate PS&R calculation.

 

Expenditure towards the clubs infrastructure, youth academy and women’s football are set aside from the calculation - and we know the club has put a considerable amount of expenditure into those areas over the last few years.

 

So the club could be within the financial parameters it needs to be.

 

HOWEVER! 

 

What shouldn’t be in doubt is we are likely running close to the line - and there’s a fair reason for that.

 

A second season in the Championship would not only mean a further years reduced income for the club - it would also add a second year of lower allowed losses onto the PS&R calculation (£61 million over 3 years - assuming promotion at the end of year 2).

 

That makes going up this season really important for the clubs ongoing PS&R calculation as things stands.

Well said!

 

There are a lot of fans who simply do not understand the relative complex issues here and are often being pushed into meltdowns by various social media outlets to turn everything into a crisis.

 

If there was no FFP, King Power would happily invest more money into the club. 

 

Every club has to be financially viable independent of it's owners.

 

[Aus Fox]

An interesting thought I had today and not sure if it’s been mentioned or discussed before, but what would the land at Belvoir Drive be worth?

Surely moving the women to Seagrave and selling the land would bring something in as well as reducing operating costs?  

[foxile5]

This is going to be bloody, I think.

 

We will probably be promoted. We'll lose most of playing squad, we'll be hit with a points deduction, we will get relegated and that'll be that for a decade or more.

 

On the plus side - Chelsea in the quarters will be a good day out. 

[splinterdream]

5 hours ago, Sly said:

If we are in such a financial mess, we will potentially go into next season in the Premier League with a worse squad than we have now.

 

As long as we are covering ourselves as we are not likely to go bankrupt, then the entire FFP system is a joke. 

The only way we go bankrupt is if top wants us to go bankrupt. He has the money but we are a seperate company, so if we're short he either folds or puts money in and contnues, our issues are trying to avoid a points deduction 

[pkonline]

22 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Which is relevant to my post how?

 

You gone from saying people are having a meltdown due to being concerned, and justifying that because we we have won some things, totally unrelated.

Maybe what you meant is if it happens its all ok in your eyes because of past good times, then you should have said that in the first place.

There's a lot of emotion at the moment, and it is worth balancing the negative emotion with looking at the bigger picture. People slamming the club and owners and this cloak of quite horrible negativity about a complex situation isn't IMO either helpful, healthy or productive.

 

It's very clear that a lot of people are misinterpreting what little facts we actually know.

 

By all means people can react however they want, that's just normal human variation in behaviour, but like with most things in life, there needs to be some proportionality.

[fazzyfox]

July:- "Our panel concludes that Leicester City should be relegated back to the Championship, their place in the Premier League to be taken by play off runners up Coventry City"

 

[Blanchflower78]

The reality is well go up, suffer and come straight back down. Depressing but true. Selling off better talent and the prem injection of cash the only bright thing to come from it from club perspective, not fans.

[BertFill]

18 minutes ago, Blanchflower78 said:

The reality is well go up, suffer and come straight back down.

So pretty much the same as what will probably happen even if there turns out to be no financial penalty or points deduction!

[Pliskin]

It’s key to point out we’re not alone…..

 

There’s suggestions that 12 teams have all breached…… everyone is in the same boat. No one is spending any money at all, so we’re not going to be the only ones to be punished. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

Whilst FFP was introduced to ensure the big 6 largely maintain their straggle hold and dominance over the rest, it does feel if nearly 50% of the clubs including Chelsea, one of the teams it was introduced to protect, are at serious risk of breaching, plus how it has stagnated the transfer market and runs the risk of literally destroying any interest for half of the clubs, it is in risk of imploding the golden goose. 
 

if top flight football becomes like F1 and literally a procession for the top few teams whilst the rest scramble about as also rans it will very quickly lose its appeal and the threat of future TV deals could be significantly reduced. 
 

I think this will conclude with a rapid overhaul of the rules and a return to something more palatable and acceptable, whilst also meaning the FA can bury the Man City charges and not have to get into a fight with them over there alleged breaches. 

[KingsX]

15 hours ago, StanSP said:

And also have to sell players to those big six to 'protect the brand' and because those clubs don't get punished. 

I have to start correcting people on this.  The problem is NOT bias in enforcement.  The football authorities have attempted to punish rich clubs the same as middle-class minnows like LCFC.

 

The Premier League served Manchester City with 115 reporting and Profit and Sustainability violations.  UEFA gave them a two year ban from European competition, and also fined Chelsea for their actions during the Ambramovich era.

 

The problem is the appeals process.  These clubs have far more money and will to litigate than the authorities themselves.  And they will drag it out until they get the legal result that hurts them least, e.g. CAS overturning Man City’s ban.

 

The other problem is, it's not that hard to comply if your revenues are 3x most of your competition.  You won’t be punished if you don’t have to steal to keep up with the rich neighbors.

 

[pkonline]

36 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

It’s key to point out we’re not alone…..

 

There’s suggestions that 12 teams have all breached…… everyone is in the same boat. No one is spending any money at all, so we’re not going to be the only ones to be punished. 

It'd be a strange sight seeing potentially several teams starting on minus points next season! It'll be symbolic of the financial shambles English football has become and perhaps a necessary evil to stop the crazy money being moved around.