Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/04/02/leicester-city-psr-premier-league-championship-finances/
 

I assume this has been posted before, but it’s amazing that the message from the club appears to be ‘you need to let us off because we were so shit last season’. If that’s all we’ve got as way of defence, we’re ****ed. 

[ClaphamFox]

2 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/04/02/leicester-city-psr-premier-league-championship-finances/
 

I assume this has been posted before, but it’s amazing that the message from the club appears to be ‘you need to let us off because we were so shit last season’. If that’s all we’ve got as way of defence, we’re ****ed. 

"Following relegation, Leicester offloaded several high earners while the remaining players took wage cuts between 35 to 50 per cent."

 

Some slightly better news for those concerned about the scale of our breach for this season.

[les-tah]

Is there a potential Man City way out of this situation? E.g, could they follow their tactic of tying up the courts for years spending millions and millions of King Power money on legal proceedings and leveraging legal complexities to delay any potential points deductions or embargoes for an extended period?

Edited 3 April by les-tah

[JimmyC74]

35 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

I'm not arguing that Rudkin is good at his job. I see zero evidence of that. But I get the impression that he's a more of a yes man than somebody with significant decision-making responsibility. The wages and transfer budget would have been set and monitored at board level. People talk of Rudkin and Whelan as if the mess was caused by two individuals who went rogue and messed everything up, whereas in reality the blame should probably be spread more widely than that. Sacking Rudkin might throw a sop to those demanding his head on a platter, but it wouldn't change anything at all unless there was an acceptance at board level of their collective failure.

I think you would be able to see acceptance of mistakes made by who the owner appointed and how they performed in the role.

 

Take Levy at Spurs for one. He’s a nasty little sod by all accounts and has made mistakes, but he clearly ran the show (no interference from Joe Lewis), you knew he was in charge and he ran the club effectively as a commercial enterprise

 

There will be people Top could appoint who would run the club, our club, as a viable business, had knowledge of the football industry so we didn’t keep making poor decisions and provided him with proper advice.

 

Is Top prepared to make those decisions though?

 

my fear is after this cluster****, if the board hasn’t learned lessons it never will and we will be destined to repeat mistakes.

Edited 3 April by JimmyC74

[CosbehFox]

9 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

"Following relegation, Leicester offloaded several high earners while the remaining players took wage cuts between 35 to 50 per cent."

 

Some slightly better news for those concerned about the scale of our breach for this season.

That's until you consider that our FFP PSR limit is £13m next year, down from £35m. That's a 62% decrease. 

TV revenue goes from c£120m to £7-8m. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

14 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

"Following relegation, Leicester offloaded several high earners while the remaining players took wage cuts between 35 to 50 per cent."

 

Some slightly better news for those concerned about the scale of our breach for this season.

I’m no accountant, but that sort of suggests that we may now be at a level that is at a sustainable PL level? Oh but yea we’re not in the PL anymore 🤪

[Beachyboy]

6 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Its good Whelan has finally put her name to a statement.  But the comment seems to indicate an element of delusion, if anything I felt our 8th place finish masked the problems emerging, by the start of the season the football was well into its decline, Rodgers was already almost done.  Then the club from this statement seem to think adding standing still on the squad on top of that, they were expecting another 5th-8th place finish.

I thought we'd finish about 13th or 14th last season, like you say you could see the decline was already happening. The 13th or 14th was a thought at the end of that previous season before the summer chaos, if the manager comes out and says you are going to struggle early season, get rid that's a sign of where his head is at. The sacking and hiring of managers is reported to be around £40 mil of that loss, we have thought nothing of spending £30-£40 mil on a player in the past, why wouldn't you just have brought in a fresh voice at that stage, we'd easily have finished 13th or 14th if we had.

[ClaphamFox]

3 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

That's until you consider that our FFP PSR limit is £13m next year, down from £35m. That's a 62% decrease. 

TV revenue goes from c£120m to £7-8m. 

Oh I know. It's just that some people seemed to be under the impression that the players hadn't taken wage cuts, whereas Percy seems certain they have.

 

4 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I’m no accountant, but that sort of suggests that we may now be at a level that is at a sustainable PL level? Oh but yea we’re not in the PL anymore 🤪

The wages will likely go straight back up for the players who remain with us next season if we get promoted.

[eblair]

49 minutes ago, Lad1966 said:

These saving are from players whose contracts expired or we’ve sold. For example, we sold Maddison, players like Tilemans, Evan, Perez, etc running their contracts out. They will all be excluded from the 23/24 accounts.

26m saving is nothing

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Totally agree with this.  Forest, Leicester, Stoke and others have super-wealthy owners who want to spend to make their clubs great again, but aren’t allowed to.  Even if we stay up, we’ll have to sell MGW or  Murillo by end of June. Villa might have to sell Watkins.  Big historic Midlands clubs aren’t being allowed to compete with London and the NW

 

It’s starting to create unusual alliances of opinions between fans of clubs that don’t usually like each other.

Any news your side on this potential joint legal battle against FFP?

[Gamble92]

24 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I’m no accountant, but that sort of suggests that we may now be at a level that is at a sustainable PL level? Oh but yea we’re not in the PL anymore 🤪

Plus the clauses will all be that they go back up to original amount of we return 😂

 

Arghhhhh

[Chrysalis]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

With those losses does this mean essentially we are going to be docked points every season for the next 3 at least because our losses will always be over 105 million? 
 

Theres no way we are making enough profit to offset that, we dont have the saleable assets. 

Yeah the 3 year rotation makes it a multi season thing if you have really bad seasons.  Will take some doing to balance that loss out, I think next season which will still have the 2 really bad seasons in there will be a non compliance, but when one of the two drops out if by then we have really trimmed the fat we might avoid a 3rd breach.

[Pliskin]

25 minutes ago, les-tah said:

Is there a potential Man City way out of this situation? E.g, could they follow their tactic of tying up the courts for years spending millions and millions of King Power money on legal proceedings and leveraging legal complexities to delay any potential points deductions or embargoes for an extended period?

There maybe, but it will be down to shortcomings in the EPL and EFL’s policies and procedures over any mitigations we may have. 
 

It’s always worth it in my opinion, regardless of the negligence displayed by the club, there’s no harm in taking legal advice and in some cases action, because if there are shortcomings noted, the whole case could be thrown out. 
 

It’s the point of legal advice, they will scrutinise the powers and policies used, and if there’s something amiss they will challenge it. Then the EPL and EFL would have to change the way they implement the rules and regs. 
 

Plus, the EPL can’t just throw more at us because where trying to defend ourselves, if they do they will likely lose that battle, as they will only be able to impose punishment in line with the breaches.

 

Id argue them giving Forest points back for “being good boys and girls” may indicate a shortcoming in their policies, they’ve opened themselves up a little bit with that move, if you’re going to punish a club, punish them properly. 
 

It’s all a bit of a mess from all sides, it wouldn’t surprise me if there are some legal abnormalities within the EPL and EFL’s policies, just because of how brash they are at times.

[ClaphamFox]

3 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

There maybe, but it will be down to shortcomings in the EPL and EFL’s policies and procedures over any mitigations we may have. 
 

It’s always worth it in my opinion, regardless of the negligence displayed by the club, there’s no harm in taking legal advice and in some cases action, because if there are shortcomings noted, the whole case could be thrown out. 
 

It’s the point of legal advice, they will scrutinise the powers and policies used, and if there’s something amiss they will challenge it. Then the EPL and EFL would have to change the way they implement the rules and regs. 
 

Plus, the EPL can’t just throw more at us because where trying to defend ourselves, if they do they will likely lose that battle, as they will only be able to impose punishment in line with the breaches.

 

Id argue them giving Forest points back for “being good boys and girls” may indicate a shortcoming in their policies, they’ve opened themselves up a little bit with that move, if you’re going to punish a club, punish them properly. 
 

It’s all a bit of a mess from all sides, it wouldn’t surprise me if there are some legal abnormalities within the EPL and EFL’s policies, just because of how brash they are at times.

For clarity, while the EPL has charged us with a breach, our case will be heard by an independent commission. It is this commission that will decide the punishment, not the EPL. I believe Forest had two points deducted because the commission that reviewed their case felt they were highly co-operative during the process, whereas Everton were apparently less so. If we're co-operative with the commission that reviews our case we may get a similar deduction - I'm not convinced that our aggressive public statements re: the EPL and EFL will be a factor as long as we play nicely with the judges that ultimately review our case.

[Pliskin]

3 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

For clarity, while the EPL has charged us with a breach, our case will be heard by an independent commission. It is this commission that will decide the punishment, not the EPL. I believe Forest had two points deducted because the commission that reviewed their case felt they were highly co-operative during the process, whereas Everton were apparently less so. If we're co-operative with the commission that reviews our case we may get a similar deduction - I'm not convinced that our aggressive public statements re: the EPL and EFL will be a factor as long as we play nicely with the judges that ultimately review our case.

Makes sense then. I think the approach towards to leagues is an attempt to somewhat protect ourselves from them, in respect of the EFL’s initial approach wasn’t within the regulations which was backed at the time by a panel? 
 

Id like to think it won’t, because our issue isn’t with the independent panel, so they will review the facts and decide based on them. The legal side of things is separate again and against them. It’s all going to be messy, very messy indeed. 

[coolhandfox]

There is not a chance we will meet the 3-year 83m target for PSR this season with a coming in with combined loses of 142m (which includes 40m assumed health deductions) for those previous seasons) 

 

We would need to sell around 80m worth of players before June. 

[jonny_wright]

We deserve all we get deduction wise, it’s embarrassing we are even challenging it! Complete and utter incompetence on every level 

[ClaphamFox]

7 minutes ago, jonny_wright said:

We deserve all we get deduction wise, it’s embarrassing we are even challenging it! Complete and utter incompetence on every level 

How can we challenge a deduction when one hasn't even been imposed on us yet? And if either the EPL or EFL decided to break with precedent and whack us with a 20-point deduction to make an example of us, are you saying we should just meekly accept it? Do you not care about the future of our football club at all? 

 

 

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Its good Whelan has finally put her name to a statement.  But the comment seems to indicate an element of delusion, if anything I felt our 8th place finish masked the problems emerging, by the start of the season the football was well into its decline, Rodgers was already almost done.  Then the club from this statement seem to think adding standing still on the squad on top of that, they were expecting another 5th-8th place finish.

I would say you plan years ahead, I think the point is we were finishing 5th, and challenging for top 4. That's when budgets were set in motion, contracts aren't a year, they are 3/4/5 years, so you commit in advance. 

[Blue ROI]

2 hours ago, Pliskin said:

There maybe, but it will be down to shortcomings in the EPL and EFL’s policies and procedures over any mitigations we may have. 
 

It’s always worth it in my opinion, regardless of the negligence displayed by the club, there’s no harm in taking legal advice and in some cases action, because if there are shortcomings noted, the whole case could be thrown out. 
 

It’s the point of legal advice, they will scrutinise the powers and policies used, and if there’s something amiss they will challenge it. Then the EPL and EFL would have to change the way they implement the rules and regs. 
 

Plus, the EPL can’t just throw more at us because where trying to defend ourselves, if they do they will likely lose that battle, as they will only be able to impose punishment in line with the breaches.

 

Id argue them giving Forest points back for “being good boys and girls” may indicate a shortcoming in their policies, they’ve opened themselves up a little bit with that move, if you’re going to punish a club, punish them properly. 
 

It’s all a bit of a mess from all sides, it wouldn’t surprise me if there are some legal abnormalities within the EPL and EFL’s policies, just because of how brash they are at times.

I'd say one of our few hopes in all of this would be that many other clubs will fall on the wrong side of this at some point.

 

I've no doubt that powers that be don't care about anything that happens outside of the Top 6 but there will come a point where the league will suffer greatly if all bar the financial giants are punished.

 

Clubs in other leagues like La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga may become more attractive than clubs ranked 7th or below in the Premier League over time which will impact the Premier League negatively in terms of attracting top talent.

 

Punishing many clubs will have a knock on effect.

Edited 3 April by Blue ROI

[Babylon]

If we finish 3rd, you'll see us jump at the chance to take 10 points this season. 

[ClaphamFox]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

If we finish 3rd, you'll see us jump at the chance to take 10 points this season. 

And then it will be the EFL saying, "Hang on guys - these things take time. No sense in rushing them..."

[Bilo]

12 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

I'd say one of our few hopes in all of this would be that many other clubs will fall on the wrong side of this at some point.

 

I've no doubt that powers that be don't care about anything that happens outside of the Top 6 but there will come a point where the league will suffer greatly if all bar the financial giants are punished.

 

Clubs in other leagues like La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga may become more attractive than clubs ranked 7th or below in the Premier League over time which will impact the Premier League negatively in terms of attracting top talent.

 

Punishing many clubs will be a knock on effect.

Exactly this. The Premier League are not stupid and know that this would destroy the competition, because those Big Six clubs only need a bad season or two for them to end up in the mire themselves. 

 

There will be a season or two of 4-7 point deductions for clubs in breach, legal challenges will ensue and then the PSR rules and regulations will be quietly phased out before returning to business as usual.

Edited 3 April by Bilo

[Beachyboy]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

That's until you consider that our FFP PSR limit is £13m next year, down from £35m. That's a 62% decrease. 

TV revenue goes from c£120m to £7-8m. 

So a 95% reduction in TV revenue and a 35-50% reduction in wages. That TV revenue doesn't even cover 2 players wages does it?

[Babylon]

23 minutes ago, Beachyboy said:

So a 95% reduction in TV revenue and a 35-50% reduction in wages. That TV revenue doesn't even cover 2 players wages does it?

That's why you get parachute payments of 55% this season and 45% next season.