Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, Beachyboy said:

So a 95% reduction in TV revenue and a 35-50% reduction in wages. That TV revenue doesn't even cover 2 players wages does it?

Parachute payment is around. 70m

last season broadcast revs were 115m.  So that’s 45m down. 

 

perversely, matchday revs may well be unaffected because 4 additional fixtures 

 

commercial revs must take a hit - especially sponsorship.  Let’s say £15m 

 

that’s a drop on last years revenues of 60m 

 

wages will be notably reduced - we can take out rodgers 10m and then estimate 30% of the 190m.  That could mean our wage bill is down between 60 and 70m.  Let’s be conservative and say it’s 50m lower. 
 

so we’ve lost 60m on income and saved 50m on wages.   So we’re going to be losing 100m like for like. 
 

we’ve taken in player sales profits around 45m so far and spent around 6m amortised.
 

that brings us to around 60m loss. Our three year rolling loss needs to be 83m to avoid a psr charge.  We have 34m headline loss dropping out from year 3.  We have no idea what our deductions are which means it’s tough to guess what we need to get in June. 
 

a rough guess would say that we need to get in  60m in profits from transfers in June for us to make a decent argument that we’ve addressed the situation.  But if we get promoted then I doubt very much that we’d do this and we’d look to get an accelerated hearing and fine from the efl which the PL would take from us on their behalf.  I think we’d try and get in £40m profits in June. Can’t see how we avoid selling kdh and JJ which we should hopefully be able to squeeze out, even with fairly low ball deals and another profitable sale from somewhere. 
 

how many free transfers can we manage to find this summer! 

[huddersfieldfox]

Relegation. points deduction redundancy cost of living. All the other rubbish that people have to get on with in life , in the end we do. We dust ourselves down and start again. Make no mistake I am gutted to what we have come from to what may or may not happen but if it comes to it and I'm stood at Oldham or some other dive at a cold damp ground so be it. I've done it all before and if I have to I will do it again 

[filbertway]

16 hours ago, Product of 84 said:

Just a thought. 

 

Without FFP would we the fans be loving our owners for ploughing so much money into the club?

Personally no, not a massive fan of running up massive liabilities against the club

 

Does our situation kill FFP as it highlights how you're shafted twice by failing to reach your targets? 

Don't really understand how we're shafted twice - we broke the rules. We got relegated. One has nothing do with the other.

 

I think that's our argument. We budgeted for success and instead had to pay off a manager, got relegated and lost a load of players on free transfers. 

As above - us failing on the pitch has nothing to do with us breaking rules.

 

Imagine Everton, Villa, West Ham etc going down. They'd be in the same financial dire straits as us. 

Depends on if they have saleable assets and what their relegation release clauses are. Comparing us to Everton who has been one of the most poorly ran clubs in the last decade shows where we're at.

 

I hope we can keep kicking whatever penalties come our way further down the road as I think FFP as a concept is dead.

Disagree 

 

Also as grim as the last season was with Rodgers, the players who wound down their contracts have a lot to answer for. I'm also angry that we continued to play some of those players but not others. I'd have played hard ball with them. Especially, with the World Cup coming up. You sign or you don't play. 

Rudkin and Whelan let the contract situation get to that point through poor planning and poor decision making.

 

 

Really struggling to understand this mindset - it just seems like bias and emotion rather than logic. The people running our club have failed the club horrifically, it comes across like you're letting them off the hook and blaming the rules (rules which allow clubs to make a £35m loss each year... thirty five million loss)

 

In what world are people upset that rules are trying to prevent us running up massive losses. I just don't understand it.

[Product of 84]

6 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

Really struggling to understand this mindset - it just seems like bias and emotion rather than logic. The people running our club have failed the club horrifically, it comes across like you're letting them off the hook and blaming the rules (rules which allow clubs to make a £35m loss each year... thirty five million loss)

 

In what world are people upset that rules are trying to prevent us running up massive losses. I just don't understand it.

Oh I'm definitely biased and emotional! 

 

I'm also very angry with those running the club, including Top.

 

Then I think of the journey Leicester have been on since I was old enough to enjoy football. The clue to that is in my site name.

 

Top and his family have taken us to places I never thought possible. They are obscenely rich. Make ridiculous sums of money. They talk about 35 million like small change. He has already said financially King Power will continue to fund the club and the aims for Leicester City are still there. 

 

Keep the faith! It's a big blip in the road but with the money we have behind us the future remains bright. This only goes wrong if we lose the money- King Power/Top

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

Oh I'm definitely biased and emotional! 

 

I'm also very angry with those running the club, including Top.

 

Then I think of the journey Leicester have been on since I was old enough to enjoy football. The clue to that is in my site name.

 

Top and his family have taken us to places I never thought possible. They are obscenely rich. Make ridiculous sums of money. They talk about 35 million like small change. He has already said financially King Power will continue to fund the club and the aims for Leicester City are still there. 

 

Keep the faith! It's a big blip in the road but with the money we have behind us the future remains bright. This only goes wrong if we lose the money- King Power/Top

It's been on a steady downward trend since 2019-2020 I think. We were in such a good position that we're now only seeing the results of errors made. Top is showing absolutely no sign or indication that he's accepting errors have been made. We'll continue to make errors and continue to weaken until action is taken.

[JimmyC74]

14 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

Oh I'm definitely biased and emotional! 

 

I'm also very angry with those running the club, including Top.

 

Then I think of the journey Leicester have been on since I was old enough to enjoy football. The clue to that is in my site name.

 

Top and his family have taken us to places I never thought possible. They are obscenely rich. Make ridiculous sums of money. They talk about 35 million like small change. He has already said financially King Power will continue to fund the club and the aims for Leicester City are still there. 

 

Keep the faith! It's a big blip in the road but with the money we have behind us the future remains bright. This only goes wrong if we lose the money- King Power/Top

If Top / KP keeps funding our losses we remain viable yes, but if we continue hemorrhaging cash (due to expenditure exceeding income) we will continue to be penalised by the leagues, we will fall down the pyramid due to needing to sell our main playing assists and rely on inferior or less experienced youth talent.

 

We *must* see changes at board level.

[urban.spaceman]

48 minutes ago, filbertway said:

It's been on a steady downward trend since 2019-2020 I think. We were in such a good position that we're now only seeing the results of errors made. Top is showing absolutely no sign or indication that he's accepting errors have been made. We'll continue to make errors and continue to weaken until action is taken.

2019/20 - League Cup Semi Final (and a missed handball away from a final), FA Cup Quarter Final, 5th in the Premier League and kept out of the Champions League by Man City's Europe ban being falsely overturned by CAS.

2020/21 - FA Cup winners, 5th in the Premier League, Round of 32 in the Europa League, kept out of the Champions League by Man City's Europe ban being falsely overturned by CAS.

2021/22 - Community Shield winners, League Cup quarter final, 8th in the Premier League, Europa Conference League Semi Final.

 

We were actually on the up as a club. The only thing that hamstrung us is new rules specifically set up to entrap ambitious clubs and protect the Big Six.

 

The club are culpable for a lot of things but they had the right to be ambitious. The biggest mistake they made was thinking we were in a fair competition.

Edited 3 April by urban.spaceman

[Ricey]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

2019/20 - League Cup Semi Final (and a missed handball away from a final), FA Cup Quarter Final, 5th in the Premier League and kept out of the Champions League by Man City's Europe ban being falsely overturned by CAS.

2020/21 - FA Cup winners, 5th in the Premier League, Round of 32 in the Europa League, kept out of the Champions League by Man City's Europe ban being falsely overturned by CAS.

2021/22 - Community Shield winners, League Cup quarter final, 8th in the Premier League, Europa Conference League Semi Final.

 

We were actually on the up as a club. The only thing that hamstrung us is new rules specifically set up to entrap ambitious clubs and protect the Big Six.

 

The club are culpable for a lot of things but they had the right to be ambitious. The biggest mistake they made was thinking we were in a fair competition.

They weren't new rules though. They had been in place for 10 years.

 

I don't think they did have the right to be ambitious if it meant gambling the future of the club on it being successful, especially when that gamble effectively meant going all in on Brendan Rodgers and Lee Congerton, who both have a terrible records in regards to longevity and sustained success. No fan would have wanted that.

 

They effectively built a financial infrastructure that only stood a chance of avoiding breaches if we carried on finishing in the top 6 and carried on being able to sell players for £50M+. That was never ever going to be sustainable and hindsight is not required to see that.

 

We could still have been ambitious, but within a business plan that allowed for a bump in the road. Instead we put our foot down and wrote the car off once it hit the first pothole.

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

2019/20 - League Cup Semi Final (and a missed handball away from a final), FA Cup Quarter Final, 5th in the Premier League and kept out of the Champions League by Man City's Europe ban being falsely overturned by CAS.

2020/21 - FA Cup winners, 5th in the Premier League, Round of 32 in the Europa League, kept out of the Champions League by Man City's Europe ban being falsely overturned by CAS.

2021/22 - Community Shield winners, League Cup quarter final, 8th in the Premier League, Europa Conference League Semi Final.

 

We were actually on the up as a club. The only thing that hamstrung us is new rules specifically set up to entrap ambitious clubs and protect the Big Six.

 

The club are culpable for a lot of things but they had the right to be ambitious. The biggest mistake they made was thinking we were in a fair competition.

No one can dispute what we achieved but it can be argued by our competitors that we overspent on the rules in order to do that. 

 

we knew the rules - we should have been agitating for them to be changed but I maintain that we believe that just as the rules protected the rich six from the other 14, so they also protected little old Leicester to a degree from the Aston Villa’s and any other reasonable sized PL club who had extremely wealthy owners and couldn’t invest quickly to catch us up
 

 

[casablancas]

It’s all going to make for an interesting fm25 season   that’s the only positive I can grasp. 

[st albans fox]

one thing that might be interesting next season if we go up will be the huge spread of wages and their lack of association with the talent of the player.

 

we wont be bringing guys in on more than 50k.  ignore s/o fees which would be added if free agents.   so you'll have guys on 40/50k being asked to run through walls to keep us in the PL whilst deadwood like bouba and daka could be sitting on the bench earning 80k.   i dont think thats great for morale.  saw that at qpr ten years ago and it didnt go well. 

[Corky]

7 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

That's until you consider that our FFP PSR limit is £13m next year, down from £35m. That's a 62% decrease. 

TV revenue goes from c£120m to £7-8m. 

How is there no grace period? Let's say you lose £70 million across two years in the PL then £15 million in the Championship. You have strived to reduce losses from a huge height yet fall foul of rules you have only been in for one year.

 

I don't think you should be free to spend widely but if you try to reduce losses from competing in the PL then you should be exempt for a season.

[CosbehFox]

31 minutes ago, Corky said:

How is there no grace period? Let's say you lose £70 million across two years in the PL then £15 million in the Championship. You have strived to reduce losses from a huge height yet fall foul of rules you have only been in for one year.

 

I don't think you should be free to spend widely but if you try to reduce losses from competing in the PL then you should be exempt for a season.

No it immediately drops. This partly why Forest have failed so badly 

[kenny]

33 minutes ago, Corky said:

How is there no grace period? Let's say you lose £70 million across two years in the PL then £15 million in the Championship. You have strived to reduce losses from a huge height yet fall foul of rules you have only been in for one year.

 

I don't think you should be free to spend widely but if you try to reduce losses from competing in the PL then you should be exempt for a season.

The argument is that the parachute payments are high enough combined with your own salary reductions, sales and general acumen/prudence that it should be fine.

 

The parachute payments are £45m on top of the championship TV deal, so the clubs should be able to cope.

[MalletFox]

5 hours ago, Product of 84 said:

Oh I'm definitely biased and emotional! 

 

I'm also very angry with those running the club, including Top.

 

Then I think of the journey Leicester have been on since I was old enough to enjoy football. The clue to that is in my site name.

 

Top and his family have taken us to places I never thought possible. They are obscenely rich. Make ridiculous sums of money. They talk about 35 million like small change. He has already said financially King Power will continue to fund the club and the aims for Leicester City are still there. 

 

Keep the faith! It's a big blip in the road but with the money we have behind us the future remains bright. This only goes wrong if we lose the money- King Power/Top

It’s no good Top putting his hand in his pocket to bail us out of £100m here and there if we continue to be non-compliant with the rules and get point deductions! He needs to sort the business/finance side of the club out because it’s shambolic! We had the perfect model, of buying promising youngsters, developing, selling a key player each summer for big bucks …. Then we stopped doing it! Haven’t a clue if it was an intentional strategic change or whether the changes in personnel have resulted in significantly worse outcomes! All of which has  happened under Top’s tenure.

Edited 3 April by MalletFox

[hackneyfox]

26 minutes ago, MalletFox said:

It’s no good Top putting his hand in his pocket to bail us out of £100m here and there if we continue to be non-compliant with the rules and get point deductions! He needs to sort the business/finance side of the club out because it’s shambolic! We had the perfect model, of buying promising youngsters, developing, selling a key player each summer for big bucks …. Then we stopped doing it! Haven’t a clue if it was an intentional strategic change or whether the changes in personnel have resulted in significantly worse outcomes! All of which has  happened under Top’s tenure.

Did we stop doing it?

Wasn’t it just the one season when we didn’t sell a key player?

Wasn’t helped by Tielemans and Soyuncu running down contracts but you can’t force players to leave. 

[FrankieADZ]

so many teams could get done by FFP/PSR in the next few years, nailed on for the laws to be changed before the likes of Newcastle, Villa(posted losses of £120mil) and Chelsea get charged etc

Edited 3 April by FrankieADZ

[Wymsey]

Am a very big fan of the AFC Wimbledon and Exeter (examples) models of sustainable finances.

 

Would fan-owned clubs work in the Championship, to some extent, at least?

Edited 3 April by Wymsey

[FrankieADZ]

Just now, Wymsey said:

Am a very big fan of the AFC Wimbledon and Exeter models of sustainable finances.

 

Would fan-owned clubs not work in the Championship, to some extent, at least?

dunno, frankly the way some of our fans are i wouldnt trust them cooking me dinner let alone having input within a club

[foxy tiler]

All this talk of points deductions an such got me thinking....when the big six threatened to break away and talks of punishing them was talked about.....all the influential sky and journos said it would punish their supporters......amazingly I've not heard that mentioned about our supporters or forest and Everton supporters..

.....I wonder why🤔🫣

[filbertway]

4 minutes ago, foxy tiler said:

All this talk of points deductions an such got me thinking....when the big six threatened to break away and talks of punishing them was talked about.....all the influential sky and journos said it would punish their supporters......amazingly I've not heard that mentioned about our supporters or forest and Everton supporters..

.....I wonder why🤔🫣

I guess their supporters actually stood up and put a stop to the super leagues. Maybe if we go to the KP/Seagrave and smash up the fax machines and Rudkin's office then we'll be looked on as kindly?

 

[urban.spaceman]

38 minutes ago, foxy tiler said:

All this talk of points deductions an such got me thinking....when the big six threatened to break away and talks of punishing them was talked about.....all the influential sky and journos said it would punish their supporters......amazingly I've not heard that mentioned about our supporters or forest and Everton supporters..

.....I wonder why🤔🫣

Because winning trophies without the consent of the Big Six clubs is obviously much worse than trying to set up your own private league that would have bankrupted absolutely every other club in Europe AND guarantee no club could possibly challenge them ever again.

[stu]

 

[Ricey]

8 minutes ago, stu said:

 

A luxury tax would work in some instances as it would allow clubs to be ambitious as long as they have the backing to do so, but what happens if owners lump it all on loans that then strangle the club further down the line? Also, for the mega-rich like Newcastle and Man City, it basically gives them free-reign to spend what they like and sail off into the sunset. A luxury tax, but still with some kind of spending/wage bill cap might be the answer.

 

Regardless, we can't carry on with a situation where half of the Premier League are desperately trying to avoid points deductions each season.

[copunk]

Just in time for the Man City and Chelsea punishments, if your Forest or Everton, may well be us next season, your either demanding the points back or suing 

Just goes to show the complete and utter farce the EPL has become