Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[Pliskin]

What people need to understand every case is different. 
 

When we present our arguments to the panel making the decision, they won’t be sat there think “yea but Everton’s breaches on paper were less than yours, so **** you”…… they will scrutinise the incident, listen to our argument and then make a decision based on that. 
 

There are lots of things that can be taken into consideration, whereas we have breached, we have made efforts to remedy this by selling assets…. Its not as simple as we’ve been the worst so where getting handed. And don’t listen to a word the media say, because they will whip up a frenzy based on what has gone before. 
 

I think it will be 6 with a reduction to 4, it certainly won’t be 15 or 16…….

[Grebfromgrebland]

16 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

You'd be right if we are taking about our best players (and they have a recoverable value) but we were spending (& still are) high wages on squad filler such as Soumare, Praet et al. 

Yeah they didn't work out. You can see why some managers like premier league proven players, at least you know they have what it takes and can evidence that. 

 

Maybe Coopers alleged comments on wanting domestic players makes a lot of sense after all, there's far less risk involved. He probably looked at our squad and thought there's a lot of duffers there holding the club and him back.

[Trent Steel]

20 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

What people need to understand every case is different. 
 

When we present our arguments to the panel making the decision, they won’t be sat there think “yea but Everton’s breaches on paper were less than yours, so **** you”…… they will scrutinise the incident, listen to our argument and then make a decision based on that. 
 

There are lots of things that can be taken into consideration, whereas we have breached, we have made efforts to remedy this by selling assets…. Its not as simple as we’ve been the worst so where getting handed. And don’t listen to a word the media say, because they will whip up a frenzy based on what has gone before. 
 

I think it will be 6 with a reduction to 4, it certainly won’t be 15 or 16…….

I agree with your last sentence will be 4 or 6

 

Everyone is saying to me will be 15 points blah blah but will never happen

 

Don't forget Forest are in the shit again too

[Pliskin]

6 minutes ago, Trent Steel said:

I agree with your last sentence will be 4 or 6

 

Everyone is saying to me will be 15 points blah blah but will never happen

 

Don't forget Forest are in the shit again too

And Everton. Who might even be heading for administration……

[Trent Steel]

Just now, Pliskin said:

And Everton. Who might even be heading for administration……

even better!  about time, long overdue

Edited 30 July by Trent Steel

[MonkeyTennis?]

On 10/05/2024 at 14:02, MonkeyTennis? said:

IMHO: we will get hit with two deductions, eight points each. We might be able to argue it down to six each, but we are probably looking at a total deduction of 12-16 points next season. 

 

Two deductions because we haven't had anything deducted for the last season, and will declare a breach again this season. Eight points because our losses are much bigger than other clubs. 

I'd always thought it was possible that it could be 16, but I assumed that would be for two breaches, both the highest in the league, and also because we haven't co-operated so there's no mitigation. Eight per breach because that's one below the penalty for going into administration. 

 

If that does happen, then all we are doing this season is waiting to go down again, when we will then also be forced to take more punishment in the Championship! Fun times. 

[ClaphamFox]

55 minutes ago, 87fox said:

We are facing two separate charges – one for failing PSR (and our failure is way more significant that Everton's or Forest's), and one for failing to submit our audited accounts. It says it in black and white here from when the charges were announced: https://www.premierleague.com/news/3938339

 

And in June, John Percy confirmed this was still the case in this article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/06/03/leicester-frustrated-with-enzo-maresca-jumping-ship-chelsea/

 

Does anyone know if there is any precedent for punishments for clubs failing to submit audited accounts in the Premier League? I suspect that the punishment for both charges combined is where the PL is getting 16 points from.

However, as @ClaphamFox says, this will be what the PL are pressing for, not necessarily what the commission decides. At that stage we also then have an appeal where it could be reduced further.

I expect we'll vigorously challenge the second charge on the grounds that we were a Championship club when the accounts were due to be submitted. That might come down to how carefully-worded the rules are - if our lawyers can identify any loopholes, we might be able to get that charge dismissed. 

 

The punishment for breaching PSR will come down to how much we've breached by and what arguments we can make in mitigation. But we might not find out about any of this for a while yet as we're still legally challenging the PL's right to even charge us over PSR. 

[ClaphamFox]

6 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

I'd always thought it was possible that it could be 16, but I assumed that would be for two breaches, both the highest in the league, and also because we haven't co-operated so there's no mitigation. Eight per breach because that's one below the penalty for going into administration. 

 

If that does happen, then all we are doing this season is waiting to go down again, when we will then also be forced to take more punishment in the Championship! Fun times. 

We've not breached twice.

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

We've not breached twice.

We’re not sure about that as no charges for period ending 30 June 24  would be issued until later this year. 
 

I’d be surprised if 90m from Barnes, kdh, castagne and enzo was quite enough. The breach should not be as high as previous year though. And remember we’re running at allowable 83m rather than 105m. 

 

certainly the initial deduction would be somewhere between 6 and 10 points which would hopefully be reduced on appeal. There may be a second one in March/April based on last season. 

[richardsfoxes]

 

All that money and we're in this shit. 

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

We’re not sure about that as no charges for period ending 30 June 24  would be issued until later this year. 
 

I’d be surprised if 90m from Barnes, kdh, castagne and enzo was quite enough. The breach should not be as high as previous year though. And remember we’re running at allowable 83m rather than 105m. 

 

certainly the initial deduction would be somewhere between 6 and 10 points which would hopefully be reduced on appeal. There may be a second one in March/April based on last season. 

You're right - we don't know yet. The perception in the media seems to be that we avoided a breach by selling KDH, which I assume has come from off-the-record briefings by people at the club. But yeah - we won't know for certain for a while yet.

 

But some people seem to be under the impression that we might get a -16 point breach when the commission rules on our existing charge, which seems highly unlikely given that we won't know about end June '24 until next spring.

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

You're right - we don't know yet. The perception in the media seems to be that we avoided a breach by selling KDH, which I assume has come from off-the-record briefings by people at the club. But yeah - we won't know for certain for a while yet.

 

But some people seem to be under the impression that we might get a -16 point breach when the commission rules on our existing charge, which seems highly unlikely given that we won't know about end June '24 until next spring.

We could voluntarily rush though figures to end June 24 and ask for it all to be dealt with at the same time in one single hearing.  Thus avoiding a second commission and penalty next March/april. 

[MonkeyTennis?]

16 points is just a rumour, and we have no clue if the club are expecting that in one go or two, but for me the only way it makes sense if its two - and while we currently have one breach to deal with, its fairly welll known that we were on track to breach again. While the rules are unfair on smaller clubs (especially smaller clubs who overperform), we are facing deductions because the club has been mismanaging transfers and investments in a very complacent, 'it'll probably be fine,' manner. I don't think that's changed. 

[Gevans_97]

16 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Stats like this really really kicks home how stupid we have been 

 

 

Definitely stupidity, but also how the PSR system is a complete mess and doesn’t work!

[KFS]

28 minutes ago, richardsfoxes said:

 

All that money and we're in this shit. 

If I’m DeMarco I’m:
 

- Showing them this

- Building the case on the fact that our lost income across the years due to missing out on the UCL is down to other cheats

- Claiming that a penalty was paid in dropping down to the championship, because we never actually received a sporting advantage 

 

Imo we shouldn’t even get a deduction based on all of the above. 

[ClaphamFox]

13 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

16 points is just a rumour, and we have no clue if the club are expecting that in one go or two, but for me the only way it makes sense if its two - and while we currently have one breach to deal with, its fairly welll known that we were on track to breach again. While the rules are unfair on smaller clubs (especially smaller clubs who overperform), we are facing deductions because the club has been mismanaging transfers and investments in a very complacent, 'it'll probably be fine,' manner. I don't think that's changed. 

Yes, but the consensus in the media seems to be that we avoided this second breach by receiving £40m+ from Chelsea for Enzo and KDH. And that perception would have been given to them from the club. The BBC reported on this here.

 

And even if we were still marginally in breach for the period 2021-24, there is no way we'd get an eight point deduction for the second breach: first, because the amount of the breach would by definition have to be very small given the club's confidence that there wasn't even a breach for 2021-24; and second, because when second breaches cover some of the same period as a previous breach, the punishment for the second breach is reduced to reflect the fact that the club has already been punished for part of that period. This is why Everton were only docked two points for their second breach.

 

There is simply no way we could get two eight points deductions for separate PSR breaches. 

[jammie82uk]

3 hours ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

also because we haven't co-operated so there's no mitigation.

We have co-operated and the committee acknowledges that we did 

5. The Commission was greatly assisted by the parties and their respective representatives in this matter.

[HybridFox]

Still nothing on this then? FA getting ready for an announcement the week of our first game no doubt 

[ClaphamFox]

25 minutes ago, HybridFox said:

Still nothing on this then? FA getting ready for an announcement the week of our first game no doubt 

We're still trying to claim the PL has no right to pursue us over PSR, which is delaying things...

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11712/13163559/leicester-lodge-appeal-after-challenge-against-premier-leagues-psr-charge-rejected-by-independent-commission

[sylofox]

8 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

Luton got two penalties - 10 points for transfer irregularities and 20 points for failing to complete a solvency agreement imposed by HMRC. And the 20 point deduction was so harsh because Luton were repeat offenders as they’d gone into insolvency three times in 10 years.

 

A very different case. 

Agreed but the punishment was dished out to new owners that had nothing to do with any of it. Other than buying the club to try and save it.

 

Hardly fair on them or the fans.

[gurru991]

17 minutes ago, sylofox said:

Agreed but the punishment was dished out to new owners that had nothing to do with any of it. Other than buying the club to try and save it.

 

Hardly fair on them or the fans.

It was a terrible decision & as usual it is the fans that suffer.

[lcfcbluearmy]

22 hours ago, Reg Vardy said:

Was talking to an employee of the club at the weekend…..club anticipating 16 (sixteen) point deduction……don’t shoot me I am the message boy….

That would be absolutely ridiculous and it's is completely out of proporciona to previous deductions given forest 4 points, Everton 6 points ( 8 in total for 2 co secative breaches).

 

We only have one breach and it's only 9 points for administration 16 points would be an outrage!

 

However I suspect it will be a maximum of 8

[urban.spaceman]

5 hours ago, KFS said:

If I’m DeMarco I’m:
 

- Showing them this

- Building the case on the fact that our lost income across the years due to missing out on the UCL is down to other cheats

- Claiming that a penalty was paid in dropping down to the championship, because we never actually received a sporting advantage 

 

Imo we shouldn’t even get a deduction based on all of the above. 

We should actively be pursuing compensation in the *hundreds* of millions.

[KFS]

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

We should actively be pursuing compensation in the *hundreds* of millions.

Can you tell I live in litigation city??

[Trav Le Bleu]

Anyone who thinks it's going to be a 10+ PT deduction is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

The FA can't give a team a deduction that leaves them thinking, "s*d it, might as well save our money, we're relegated anyway."

 

It would completely unbalance the league to have one team that might as well give up on day one.