Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[Twitcher]

3 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Thanks - great summary.

 

Right now, points deductions this season almost seem to be designed to push the club 'nearer' relegation, but give them every chance of surviving. Forest 1 point from relegation gives them every chance of surviving. If it gets closer, i even expect an appeal to be on the cards that drops it to 2 points. Everton start shitting the bed and move to a 6 point reduction.

 

My concern is that now the cat is out of the bag, future deductions won't be so pragmatic. Every club has had their warning.

 

This is a terrible place for football to have ended up in. The amount of time and energy (and cost) spent on Lawyers is going to be eye watering, and a new world of issues has already been created. We've created a bigger problem that was trying to be solved.

How do we go from threatening to sue Everton, to being threatened with litigation ourselves?

Forest had "we'd just come up" mitigation, Everton had "harsh punishment, but yeah you caught us" response.

What will ours be; "we're ostriches?"

Edited 19 March by Twitcher

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Twitcher said:

How do we go from threatening to sue Everton, to being threatened within litigation ourselves?

Forest had "we'd just come up" mitigation, Everton had "harsh punishment, but yeah you caught us" response.

What will ours be; "we're ostriches?"

“New phone, who dis?”

[Dahnsouff]

There can be no excuse now for the Premier League not to define what punishments are for, along with  a guideline on what the penalties would be. They would need to leave enough scope for variation based on circumstance, but not enough for cases to take a long time or end up in court for months on end.

 

They set the rules, so do it and stop all the mucking about, ensuring there is ample clarity and no scope for a circus.

[fazzyfox]

Are there any estimates of how close to the tipping point we are for this season? Could a sale of a Kristianson, Souttar or Iverson very early in the transfer window be enough or are we way off  . Are we potentially talking about a few Million or tens of millions? If 30,000 of us buy an extra Bovril at £3 a pop per game would that help or have they franchised the, ahem, "Catering" (sorry for offending genuine caterers) out for a set sum? Pre-order next seasons shirt? Season ticket up front not direct debit? Bucket collection? . Where's Baldrick when you need him?

[st albans fox]

16 minutes ago, fazzyfox said:

Are there any estimates of how close to the tipping point we are for this season? Could a sale of a Kristianson, Souttar or Iverson very early in the transfer window be enough or are we way off  . Are we potentially talking about a few Million or tens of millions? If 30,000 of us buy an extra Bovril at £3 a pop per game would that help or have they franchised the, ahem, "Catering" (sorry for offending genuine caterers) out for a set sum? Pre-order next seasons shirt? Season ticket up front not direct debit? Bucket collection? . Where's Baldrick when you need him?

Selling all of those three would offer very little.  We’d struggle to break even on psr with soutta4 and VK ref amortisation 

[ForestAreMagic]

3 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

There can be no excuse now for the Premier League not to define what punishments are for, along with  a guideline on what the penalties would be. They would need to leave enough scope for variation based on circumstance, but not enough for cases to take a long time or end up in court for months on end.

 

They set the rules, so do it and stop all the mucking about, ensuring there is ample clarity and no scope for a circus.

Before they do that they should be clear on what the point of any of this is

 

If a billionaire wants to throw their money at Forest, Leicester, Everton or anyone else, why shouldn’t they? 

 

No club of any size has disappeared because of overspending.  Derby, Leeds, Portsmouth and Bolton all went down a couple of divisions when their spending went wrong then regrouped and started making their way back up again.

Get the ‘fit and proper owners’ test sorted by all means, but I don’t see why everyone outside the Tourist 6 should be forced to sell their best player every June 

 

[Lineker's Left Foot]

2 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Before they do that they should be clear on what the point of any of this is

 

If a billionaire wants to throw their money at Forest, Leicester, Everton or anyone else, why shouldn’t they? 

 

No club of any size has disappeared because of overspending.  Derby, Leeds, Portsmouth and Bolton all went down a couple of divisions when their spending went wrong then regrouped and started making their way back up again.

Get the ‘fit and proper owners’ test sorted by all means, but I don’t see why everyone outside the Tourist 6 should be forced to sell their best player every June 

 

Agree mate but tell that horrible club up the end of the M69 who think we keep ‘cheating’ against these pathetic rules

[Wymsey]

The club was very lucky not to be docked points in 2002 whilst in administration.

 

Pleased to see Reading managing to survive in the league, despite their position.

[ClaphamFox]

5 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

The club was very lucky not to be docked points in 2002 whilst in administration.

 

Pleased to see Reading managing to survive in the league, despite their position.

Given that such a penalty didn’t exist at the time, how were we lucky? And even if we were docked 10 or even 12 points that season, we’d still have been promoted automatically, so what difference would it have made?

[Dahnsouff]

27 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Before they do that they should be clear on what the point of any of this is

 

If a billionaire wants to throw their money at Forest, Leicester, Everton or anyone else, why shouldn’t they? 

 

No club of any size has disappeared because of overspending.  Derby, Leeds, Portsmouth and Bolton all went down a couple of divisions when their spending went wrong then regrouped and started making their way back up again.

Get the ‘fit and proper owners’ test sorted by all means, but I don’t see why everyone outside the Tourist 6 should be forced to sell their best player every June

Not so sure, or maybe it does not apply for clubs of a certain “size”, but there has been cases were clubs have become broken through striving too hard/too early.

Would personally prefer that the reason for success if effort, innovation or some other non financial element, although agree with the idea of not being forced to sell to balance finances against a declared limit that only applies to the few.

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Wymsey said:

The club was very lucky not to be docked points in 2002 whilst in administration.

 

Pleased to see Reading managing to survive in the league, despite their position.

No we weren't? There was no punishment for administration then, it only became a thing because certain professional victims wouldn't stop whining about it 

[Foxmeister]

2 hours ago, fazzyfox said:

Are there any estimates of how close to the tipping point we are for this season? Could a sale of a Kristianson, Souttar or Iverson very early in the transfer window be enough or are we way off  . Are we potentially talking about a few Million or tens of millions? If 30,000 of us buy an extra Bovril at £3 a pop per game would that help or have they franchised the, ahem, "Catering" (sorry for offending genuine caterers) out for a set sum? Pre-order next seasons shirt? Season ticket up front not direct debit? Bucket collection? . Where's Baldrick when you need him?

The entire matchday revenue is less than we paid for Daka.

[ClaphamFox]

2 hours ago, fazzyfox said:

Are there any estimates of how close to the tipping point we are for this season? Could a sale of a Kristianson, Souttar or Iverson very early in the transfer window be enough or are we way off  . Are we potentially talking about a few Million or tens of millions? If 30,000 of us buy an extra Bovril at £3 a pop per game would that help or have they franchised the, ahem, "Catering" (sorry for offending genuine caterers) out for a set sum? Pre-order next seasons shirt? Season ticket up front not direct debit? Bucket collection? . Where's Baldrick when you need him?

Our relegation triggered a clause in our contract with FBS that led to them ceasing to be the shirt sponsor (although they still sponsor the training kit). If we get promoted, will that deal be revived? It was reportedly worth £10m per year, which may come in handy in June….

[indierich06]

So these new rules. FSR instead of PSR. is that even going to be any better for us?

 

I've read that the key to it is not spending more than x% of revenue on transfers and wages. Our last reported revenue was about £200m, it'll obviously be less this season. Our wage bill is about £50-odd million and we're committed to paying that until we move players on. So you're probably looking at a transfer kitty quite a bit south of £100m if we get back to the PL. 

 

Given we probably need about 8-10 players, that cash isn't going to go very far. Think we're in for a bleak few seasons. 

[LVFox]

9 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

So these new rules. FSR instead of PSR. is that even going to be any better for us?

 

I've read that the key to it is not spending more than x% of revenue on transfers and wages. Our last reported revenue was about £200m, it'll obviously be less this season. Our wage bill is about £50-odd million and we're committed to paying that until we move players on. So you're probably looking at a transfer kitty quite a bit south of £100m if we get back to the PL. 

 

Given we probably need about 8-10 players, that cash isn't going to go very far. Think we're in for a bleak few seasons. 

What it does though, is making it easier to make a loss on a signing rather than be lumbered with them (Soumare, Souttar etc).

 

It's a better system, and easier to track too. Not perfect, but let's not let that stop it replacing PSR.

 

I'd also argue a net spend of say £80m on 8 players should be very doable if you include a loan or two and the occasional free agent.

[ClaphamFox]

19 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

So these new rules. FSR instead of PSR. is that even going to be any better for us?

 

I've read that the key to it is not spending more than x% of revenue on transfers and wages. Our last reported revenue was about £200m, it'll obviously be less this season. Our wage bill is about £50-odd million and we're committed to paying that until we move players on. So you're probably looking at a transfer kitty quite a bit south of £100m if we get back to the PL. 

 

Given we probably need about 8-10 players, that cash isn't going to go very far. Think we're in for a bleak few seasons. 

Lots of clubs will be in the same boat, which will put some downward pressure on transfer fees. The new system obviously won't overturn the massive advantage that the biggest clubs have, but it will likely end the spectacle of clubs desperately trying to offload homegrown talents before June 30 to scramble together enough cash to avoid a breach.  

Edited 20 March by ClaphamFox

[Ric Flair]

There's no magic formula to put rules in place but give teams carte blanched to do what they want. Unfortunately those that generate more revenue in prize money, transfer money and commercial income are always going to be able to dominate as long as they utilise it correctly and I don't object to that really.

 

I've no interest in a draft like system each season where every team is equal, would bore the shit out of me as illogical as that sounds. 

 

I also accept you can't have owners able to just pump billions in to their club if they want to as although in principle it's absolutely fine if the funds are there to do so, but there's so much risk in general if this is in play.

 

The PL generate obscene income over the rest of the football World bar a few mega clubs and yet PL clubs are not necessarily much better off for doing so due to the nature of the beast of having to pay more in wages and more in transfers fees as the PL tax.

 

Hopefully new rules that are fairer and align with the economical changes will see the insanity of fees and wages tail off and progressive PL sides can still benefit from being fortunate to generate the revenue they do and with the right execution challenge the elite and it not quickly run them ashore.

 

I still think the marginal gains for sides like us is in the academy investment and there should be even more rewards for developing in house and with our facilities and more pumped in to recruit and develop (with the very best coaches) then we can prosper.

[Foxes96]

17 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

There's no magic formula to put rules in place but give teams carte blanched to do what they want. Unfortunately those that generate more revenue in prize money, transfer money and commercial income are always going to be able to dominate as long as they utilise it correctly and I don't object to that really.

 

I've no interest in a draft like system each season where every team is equal, would bore the shit out of me as illogical as that sounds. 

 

I also accept you can't have owners able to just pump billions in to their club if they want to as although in principle it's absolutely fine if the funds are there to do so, but there's so much risk in general if this is in play.

 

The PL generate obscene income over the rest of the football World bar a few mega clubs and yet PL clubs are not necessarily much better off for doing so due to the nature of the beast of having to pay more in wages and more in transfers fees as the PL tax.

 

Hopefully new rules that are fairer and align with the economical changes will see the insanity of fees and wages tail off and progressive PL sides can still benefit from being fortunate to generate the revenue they do and with the right execution challenge the elite and it not quickly run them ashore.

 

I still think the marginal gains for sides like us is in the academy investment and there should be even more rewards for developing in house and with our facilities and more pumped in to recruit and develop (with the very best coaches) then we can prosper.

Would also argue this is why we need to increase our commercial revenue, so we can spend more in the long run. So the Stadium expansion needs to happen - which would also be exempt from PSR calculations, now we have planning permission! 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Foxes96 said:

Would also argue this is why we need to increase our commercial revenue, so we can spend more in the long run. So the Stadium expansion needs to happen - which would also be exempt from PSR calculations, now we have planning permission! 

100%

[FrankieADZ]

could be worse i guess

[Sol thewall Bamba]

18 hours ago, Twitcher said:

How do we go from threatening to sue Everton, to being threatened with litigation ourselves?

Forest had "we'd just come up" mitigation, Everton had "harsh punishment, but yeah you caught us" response.

What will ours be; "we're ostriches?"

"Don't have a go at me"

 

Signed Top.

[lcfcbluearmy]

Although obviously if we broke the rules we deserve to be punished (even if though I believe the rules to be wrong), 

 

I have more sympathy for us/ Everton than I do forest as at least in our case it looks as of we tried to cut spending to avoid breaching FFP and that is part of what caused us to get relegated.

 

However Forest don't look as if they even tried buying 29 players in 1 transfer window I'd ridiculous you can't play that many players you can't even have that many in your squad so I have very little sympathy for that

[Chelmofox]

42 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

could be worse i guess

But won't. PL would sh1t the bed if those 2 weren't a prominent part of the product.

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, FrankieADZ said:

could be worse i guess

Not a chance it'll go any further than a slap on the wrist. All PL care about is money and they bring in a shit load for them. They won't kick them out at all. 

[Corky]

Who was the last club to be KICKED OUT of the top flight?

 

This "threat" comes around now and then and nothing ever happens.