Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[Pliskin]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I wonder what the fan reaction to this is going to be at games when the financial results are announced and the supposed breaches?

 

Focus seems to be more on the rules and the bodies than our board and club which should surprise me but really doesn't with our fan base. Lemmings.

“I’ve had a mince pie and a free water, that’s more than any other owner has given me, I’ll have nothing said bad about any of them”.

[MPH]

14 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

We think that the is no mechanism for PL sanctions to be applied in the EFL.  We had better hope that our legal advice is watertight ……

 

 

I can only assume that we have found  actual wording to the contrary, somewhere..

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, MPH said:

 

 

Even if they try to, it will be challenged and appealed so there's no way it could ever count towards this season

Yes this is correct BUT what if by the time they issue the sanction (at the end of April ?) we are 9 points ahead of third place? 
 

from their perspective, a good outcome is we can take the points this season and still go up. then there is no PL sanction to be applied next season. We trade a few players in June and don’t break EFL ffp to end June 2024. Case closed!  

 

of course the strong likelihood is that we appeal and PL points sanction gets pushed back to next season.  BUT what is the legal position of a championship points sanction being rolled over to the premier league on appeal ??  There is no precedent.  It’s a big risk for them to do it so maybe they aren’t in such a strong position if they’re looking at doing it.   Hence our comments yesterday about taking action that is unlawful outside jurisdiction of those taking it. 

I also wonder if we had factored into all of this that we would be so far clear come April that we would be able to take a points deduction this season if the worst happened ?? 

[MPH]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Yes this is correct BUT what if by the time they issue the sanction (at the end of April ?) we are 9 points ahead of third place? 
 

from their perspective, a good outcome is we can take the points this season and still go up. then there is no PL sanction to be applied next season. We trade a few players in June and don’t break EFL ffp to end June 2024. Case closed!  

 

of course the strong likelihood is that we appeal and PL points sanction gets pushed back to next season.  BUT what is the legal position of a championship points sanction being rolled over to the premier league on appeal ??  There is no precedent.  It’s a big risk for them to do it so maybe they aren’t in such a strong position if they’re looking at doing it.   Hence our comments yesterday about taking action that is unlawful outside jurisdiction of those taking it. 

I also wonder if we had factored into all of this that we would be so far clear come April that we would be able to take a points deduction this season if the worst happened ?? 

 

 

We'd be off to CAS if they tried to do anything this season which would stretch it way out into next season.. 

 

 

financially, its far better for us to risk coming straight back down than it is to risk not going up....

[Lambert09]

2 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

We'd be off to CAS if they tried to do anything this season which would stretch it way out into next season.. 

 

 

financially, its far better for us to risk coming straight back down than it is to risk not going up....

absolutely and i’m surprised more people don’t understand that. A year in the prem just to earn some cash is sorely needed.  It will be like the season we went up after administration, we filled the team with free agents who all had the option to leave if we we went down. 
 

It basically gives us another shot when we go back down. Not going up would just be a complete disaster 

[Footballwipe]

3 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

We'd be off to CAS if they tried to do anything this season which would stretch it way out into next season.. 

 

 

financially, its far better for us to risk coming straight back down than it is to risk not going up....

Be interesting to see if that's possible. As I understand it only UEFA FFP is CAS-able. PSR only has the appeal process Everton have been through, it's not possible to go to CAS based on how it's written up.

[Terraloon]

27 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

no chance.

 

 

we can’t be punished for an offense in this league that didn’t occur in this league.

 

also, we hadn’t even been in this league for a full season so they’d have no way of assessing our losses for this year..

Sadly that’s not correct. 
 

When a team is relegated or come to that promoted to or from the PL if both leagues agree then the other can be responsible for progressing the discipline case.

 

 

 

 

[Cincinnati Fox]

Wages are the issue with all clubs breaking rules (forget the rules are bollocks)

yet that’s seems to be the one area that gets ignored.

[Terraloon]

18 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Yes this is correct BUT what if by the time they issue the sanction (at the end of April ?) we are 9 points ahead of third place? 
 

from their perspective, a good outcome is we can take the points this season and still go up. then there is no PL sanction to be applied next season. We trade a few players in June and don’t break EFL ffp to end June 2024. Case closed!  

 

of course the strong likelihood is that we appeal and PL points sanction gets pushed back to next season.  BUT what is the legal position of a championship points sanction being rolled over to the premier league on appeal ??  There is no precedent.  It’s a big risk for them to do it so maybe they aren’t in such a strong position if they’re looking at doing it.   Hence our comments yesterday about taking action that is unlawful outside jurisdiction of those taking it. 

I also wonder if we had factored into all of this that we would be so far clear come April that we would be able to take a points deduction this season if the worst happened ?? 

The IC almost certainly hasn’t been formed yet let alone being into a position to start assessing the evidence 

 

Charge issued 21/3 there are then 14 days for a response which is 4/4 even assuming no allowance is allowed for Easter.

 

There will the be a directions hearing, that will set a timetable. Documents will be exchanged , date set for hearing . Hearing , time to reach a conclusion time to prepare written reasons, time to edit them after reference to the club etc.

 

Without an accelerated deadline this won’t be settled this side of June

[Happy Fox]

12 minutes ago, Cincinnati Fox said:

Wages are the issue with all clubs breaking rules (forget the rules are bollocks)

yet that’s seems to be the one area that gets ignored.

 

And giving contracts to bang average players i.e Hamza.

[Lambert09]

9 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

 

And giving contracts to bang average players i.e Hamza.

Just curious but on a free, do you think we would pick up a better player than hamza for less wages? (and a signing bonus) 

 

Hamza is a good squad filler for the championship and it’s been proven that we’ve needed him.  

 

I agree with you on the argument when we were a top 8 club but in our current boat, I get why we’d give him a new deal. You don’t let a 5-7m asset walk for free unless you can upgrade for less 

 

We could have sold him to southampton in the summer if we’d wanted to and his value won’t have dropped. 

Edited 22 March by Lambert09

[Chrysalis]

9 hours ago, Sly said:

The Premier League is becoming a farce.

 

The long term impacts of this will be painful, not just for us but football in general. 
 

I still can’t get my head around how it’s legally binding to stop the growth of a football club and preventing them breaking into the top 6, whilst allowing the greedy six clubs to spend more. 
 

Elon Musk could own us and want to pump half his money into making us the biggest club in the world, he wouldn’t be allowed though.

 

Football is done if this persists. 

It probably falls foul of anti competition rules, but no club has the balls to take it to court, and there may be provisions in the league that will expel a club for trying.

[Jattdogg]

Anyone got bezos' cell number, we need his wealth and power lol.

[Chrysalis]

5 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Chelsea have to meet the current 3 year rolling rules for this season ending June 30. They did to end June 2023. 
the clubs will no doubt vote in July to change the rules if it suits them - and I reckon at least 14 will do that.  so Chelsea have to find £125m+ of profit (inc amortisation ) on sales this June or they will be charged next March.  But they may not suffer anything beyond that if the rule change suits their poor financial  position. . Under the existing rules they would need to perform the same trick next season aswell re player sales. 
 

Man City have 115 charges. That’s a mistake to begin with. Was always going to take a long time because they aren’t basic spend issues. They relate to ‘dodgy’ sponsorship deals and their place in accounts.  Trying to prove that people have lied or behaved dishonestly isn’t easy because ultimately, you need to be able to prove it in a court which is going to be v difficult without strong evidence. If that existed then this would have been dealt with already. 

For me, the fact they have bundled all those charges together over so many years is likely already a death nail, dont know what the EPL are thinking there, massively overcomplicating what should be a bunch of separate charges dealt with one at a time.

[woody01530]

25 minutes ago, Cincinnati Fox said:

Wages are the issue with all clubs breaking rules (forget the rules are bollocks)

yet that’s seems to be the one area that gets ignored.

I've put about this for years.

There should be a 60% wages against turnover limit. Seems basic accountancy for any business.

Should be written in to players contracts as well.

Hence on any reduction on turnover then wages auto reduce.

So no stupid parachute payments then required making it more fair for all clubs.

I get slated for this on leeds forum but no one can give me a good reason why.

It's usually.. 'but but football is different, not normal, can't be compared to normal business's'.

Edited 22 March by woody01530

[Lambert09]

1 minute ago, Jattdogg said:

Anyone got bezos' cell number, we need his wealth and power lol.

The problem we have with all the ‘top out’ calls, is that any potential buyers look for a club that has wriggle room to grow. A large part of why the saudi’s wanted newcastle was because of the ffp space they had due to ashley’s frugalness. 
 

If you purchased us, you wouldn’t be able to pull the club in a new direction because we are absolutely hamstrung at the moment. 

[LFEFox23]

9 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Just curious but on a free, do you think we would pick up a better player than hamza for less wages? (and a signing bonus) 

 

Hamza is a good squad filler for the championship and it’s been proven that we’ve needed him.  

 

I agree with you on the argument when we were a top 8 club but in our current boat, I get why we’d give him a new deal. You don’t let a 5-7m asset walk for free unless you can upgrade for less 

 

We could have sold him to southampton in the summer if we’d wanted to and his value won’t have dropped. 

£40,000 PER WEEK for a good squad filler!!!

 

This is the exact reason we're in the mess we are in.... Promote a youth player, or give a chance to someone else that's in the squad.

[Lambert09]

2 hours ago, LFEFox23 said:

£40,000 PER WEEK for a good squad filler!!!

 

This is the exact reason we're in the mess we are in.... Promote a youth player, or give a chance to someone else that's in the squad.

Is that number confirmed anywhere?  What is likely is that he will be on far reduced terms whilst in the championship. So you could be looking at 25k but that is all speculation. 

 

but let’s imagine it’s not. 40k is 2m per year. That’s more than most loan fees. You can’t sign anyone for 2m.

 

Anyone with any sort of pedigree for free is at least 2m in a sign on fee.

 

hamza can now be sold 100% for more than 2m, which is a profit in the books, rather than walking for free. 

 

and let’s just go to your second point, name anyone in the youth team that was not already injured. That steps in and does better than hamza because the closest we currently have is raikhy and he’s currently league 1 standard at best. 

 

There’s so many on here that can’t comprehend basic business decisions and whilst the club get a lot wrong,  this isn’t one of those situations 

Edited 22 March by Lambert09

[Chrysalis]

4 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

It's worth pointing out for the sake of clarity that the £92.5m loss was our headline financial loss, not our PSR loss for that season. Our PSR loss for 2021/22 will have been less than £92.5m but still very high so your point still stands, but mentioning a headline accounting loss in the same sentence as referring to the £105m loss allowed under PSR is potentially misleading.

 

If the PSR system continues, next season will mark the first three-year period in which we won't have the millstone of 2021/22 around our necks. But in truth this is probably academic as I don't expect the PSR system to be retained beyond this season.

It needs 14 votes to drop it, all the clubs not being penalised will likely support its existence as the enforcement effectively makes them stronger.  Given the farce of the EPL not voting to punish the ESL breakaway clubs I am not going to assume any common sense changes will happen moving forward.

[Foxdiamond]

I wonder how many fans would simply not watch football at all if their own club went to the wall.  In the past watching football you thought your club was part of it all even if we were in a different division. If there was no Leicester City anymore (Heaven forbid) I would just give up the whole interest on the game.  I think in some ways your club is the sole reason to keep up the addiction to a sport that has lost the attraction to entertain for its own sake. This is largely because at the top end it is such a racket.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Larry_LCFC said:

This is an absolute mess from top to bottom. 100% this would have never happened under Vichai. Although Top delegates alot of this responsibility to others, he has the overall power and he has taken his eye off the ball - which has been quite apparent anyway.

It did happen under him: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/feb/21/leicester-settlement-football-league-ffp

 

We have a long history of taking risks, pushing boundaries, bending (or whisper it quietly, purposely breaking). Let's not forget the Trestellar Ltd fiasco. 

 

All of which shall we not forget, predates a certain director of football, so these instructions were coming from the top. 

Edited 22 March by Babylon

[Chrysalis]

34 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

The problem we have with all the ‘top out’ calls, is that any potential buyers look for a club that has wriggle room to grow. A large part of why the saudi’s wanted newcastle was because of the ffp space they had due to ashley’s frugalness. 
 

If you purchased us, you wouldn’t be able to pull the club in a new direction because we are absolutely hamstrung at the moment. 

A owner could choose to stick two fingers up at FFP and simply take any fines and points as a cost of doing business, there is different approaches to the problem, a new owner might also have the ability to better boost our turnover and not require us to take out pay day loans further improving our situation.

Another option is to run the club differently, longer contracts on lower wages (less pressure to rise them to keep players), sign from lower leagues etc or from clubs where they castoffs. for more efficient expenditure whilst complying.  Our initial strategy from KP was like this that built the EPL title winning squad..

Edited 22 March by Chrysalis

[coolhandfox]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Yes but that’s a separate enquiry which doesn’t fall under the same season rules that psr does.  They haven’t breached psr - yet 

Enquiries may impact their previous PSR positions.

[North Leeds Fox]

Regardless of the decisions over the next few months regarding sanctions and deductions etc, I hope we use this as an opportunity to get the wage bill under control and look at trying to establish a new more sustainable model where we get back to what put us in that great place before we went mad with contracts. It looks promising from the last window that we are going to do that and hopefully we continue this summer, but shows the absurdity of the decision making when our 3rd choice keeper is happy to not play football for nearly 2 years as the wages he is on are worth it. 

[Jattdogg]

37 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

The problem we have with all the ‘top out’ calls, is that any potential buyers look for a club that has wriggle room to grow. A large part of why the saudi’s wanted newcastle was because of the ffp space they had due to ashley’s frugalness. 
 

If you purchased us, you wouldn’t be able to pull the club in a new direction because we are absolutely hamstrung at the moment. 

Of course, was just hoping his name, power and wealth would change things lol.

 

End of the day, whatever our differences are with everton, forest we all are in the same boat with varying degrees of ffp issues that negatively impact the non big clubs.  Need to all fook off and tell the h big clubs to do one