Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[Guest glasgowfox]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I’m afraid your rowing against a considerable tide with that 

Of course the authorities who hated us and were out to get us then allowed us to win the fa cup - surely they could have found some dodgy ref calls in the 1/4 final or final ?  how difficult would it have been for var to disallow youri’s winning goal for ayo’s use of the arm ??

 

No one is arguing that ffp protects the rich clubs.  It may well not have been thought up to do so but it was clear that it would do this once people looked at the mechanics of it.  why on earth wouldn’t those clubs want to maintain it and their position. None of them want a Newcastle spending a billion quid in two seasons to ensconce themselves in that top 4 at one of their expense.   I’m pretty sure that we voted with the rich six to give them a larger share of global tv revenues a few season ago.  You can hardly point at the unfairness of the financial constraints of ffp when you’re voting with the rich six to make the other fourteen poorer! 

You have some valid points but if you think we have not been thrown under the bus to send a message to the so called bigger clubs then, at least, I think you are naive 

Edited 22 March by glasgowfox
Error

[irishfoxkev]

Sky Sports just had brief discussion on reports in back page of the Times and Sun tomorrow that we’re taking legal proceedings against  the EPL  and EFL.

They called it a watershed moment as unlike Everton and Forest who s held their hands up and hoped for softer penalties we’re going gung-ho defending our rights to pursue ambitions.....

[Fox 4 Life]

Just now, irishfoxkev said:

Sky Sports just had brief discussion on reports in back page of the Times and Sun tomorrow that we’re taking legal proceedings against  the EPL  and EFL.

They called it a watershed moment as unlike Everton and Forest who s held their hands up and hoped for softer penalties we’re going gung-ho defending our rights to pursue ambitions.....

This could either be genius or the absolute end of us lol. I just hope it's not a sinking ship fighting as they drown.....

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Brizzle Fox said:

As an aside the sale of tin foil hats must have gone through the roof in the Leicester area in the last few days.

 

I think we can all agree FFP/PSR is designed to maintain the status Quo but we have been scandalously mismanaged off the pitch by a bunch of absolute morons over the last few years, fully aware of what the rules were.

 

The levels of paranoia on this thread are scary.

 

I know a good psychiatrist if anyone is looking for a referral for some Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

There's no need to buy ready-made tin foil hats, you can make your own by wrapping it around your head.

 

People need to know the truth about this.

[irishfoxkev]

They just did a bigger piece  quoting full statement from the club.......for what it’s worth they had a Sports Lawyer  called Simon Leaf who said he had looked at Premier League rules and though there is some mention of provisions that apply  to relegated and promoted teams he says there is a huge gap in the rules and he believes we are well within our rights to challenge 

Guess you could say in poker terms we’ve gone All In 😱

[Foxes_Trust]

3 hours ago, Wymsey said:

What's the @Foxes_Trust stance on this?

As we have previously posted on here

 

We are currently monitoring all the statements being made from all parties, not only in our case but PSR breaches at other clubs (such as the Everton FAB statement)

 

We had some dialogue with the club following the EFL statement and will have further dialogue very soon, however given the legal nature of the current scenario, we have to be very careful in our approach, on the one hand questioning/challenging the club, but at the same time not stating anything publicly which could harm our clubs position.

 

[Jattdogg]

Can we just get OH Leuven to buy a few of our players for 100 million £? Lol

[KFS]

Just now, Jattdogg said:

Can we just get OH Leuven to buy a few of our players for 100 million £? Lol

Club shop auction for Top’s mates… not sure why they didn’t ask for PSR avoidance ideas sooner !

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Foxes_Trust said:

As we have previously posted on here

 

We are currently monitoring all the statements being made from all parties, not only in our case but PSR breaches at other clubs (such as the Everton FAB statement)

 

We had some dialogue with the club following the EFL statement and will have further dialogue very soon, however given the legal nature of the current scenario, we have to be very careful in our approach, on the one hand questioning/challenging the club, but at the same time not stating anything publicly which could harm our clubs position.

 

Are you going to tell the club it’s being run in a shambolic way?

No? There’s a shock….

[Claudio Fannieri]

The club have made undoubted errors over the last couple of years, which has most definitely led to this breach and the subsequent mess we find ourselves in, would this have happened under Vichai, the truth is nobody knows. 
 

what we do know is when a club like ourselves who have won the premier league, been champions league quarter finalists, recent FA Cup winners, been challenging the top 4 and been in a European Semi Final, whilst also selling a raft of top talent for good money, to fall foul tells you all need to know about the rules.
 

EPL clubs are not broke, far from it, but they are being dictated to, as to how much they can invest, and regardless of how they are performing or what cash reserves they have, they are being forced to sell their star players and/or enter into a self imposed incoming transfer ban to try and stay compliant with financial rules that are outdated and quite frankly corrupt to hand a competitive advantage to the big 6. When Newcastle who are now potentially one of if not the richest club, are scratching around unable to bring players in until they are forced to sell Bruno and or Isak, to wait for it one of the big 6, then you know the rules are corrupt. 
 

So whilst there is no doubt that the club hierarchy have made mistakes, not selling an asset in the summer after the FA Cup win and giving Rodgers too much of a free reign and giving him too long last season, I wholeheartedly support the stance they are taking as these rules are absolutely ridiculous and actively prevent teams from being able to be ambitious, dream or generate any level of sustained success. It is effectively match fixing but in a different way and at a level that effectively tries to exclude any teams except the big 6 from finishing in the top 6 positions. The only reason it isn’t quite panning out as planned is that both Chelsea and Man Utd have made such a cluster**** of being handed such an advantage. 
 

As for the proposed new rules, whilst they are different, it still ensures the big 6 are given a competitive advantage, as they generate higher revenues so will have far more wriggle room than the rest. Nothing will change and the % threshold of spend will just make it more difficult for the other 14 to keep their best players who will just get picked off by the big 6 at will as they will be able to offer contracts way in excess of the others. 
 

I am glad we are going swinging hard, I am done with this corrupt shit show, this isn’t sport anymore it’s becoming more and more like F1 where there a small number of teams that are genuinely competitive and the rest are there to be nothing more than also rans to make up the numbers. The game is on its arse and soon enough it will be where every week the big 6 will be steamrolling one of the rest by 3,4 or 5 week in week out. That is not what football has been about in this country and I for one hope we do as a club fight for the right to be  ambitious, be brave and have a go at disrupting these spoilt little brats who want to control the money and their place at the top of football. 
 

 

Edited 23 March by Claudio Fannieri

[Lionator]

It’s not happened before but if you read the regulations, EFL have the capability to expel teams from the league for this sort of thing. 

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

It’s not happened before but if you read the regulations, EFL have the capability to expel teams from the league for this sort of thing. 

That won't happen. The rules are supposed to protect clubs from bad owners, what's the point in using them to expel clubs instead.

[Saxondale]

If - as it seems - our strategy is go all in, swinging punches, then fair play.

 

The PL and EFL are both out to get us, and they probably will, so we might as well stand our ground.

 

The worst that happens is we’re knackered for a season or two, but at least we put up a fight. We’ll rebuild. But it feels like this is a watershed moment, and somebody needs to stand up for the good of the game.

[Ric Flair]

24 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

The club have made undoubted errors over the last couple of years, which has most definitely led to this breach and the subsequent mess we find ourselves in, would this have happened under Vichai, the truth is nobody knows. 
 

what we do know is when a club like ourselves who have won the premier league, been champions league quarter finalists, recent FA Cup winners, been challenging the top 4 and been in a European Semi Final, whilst also selling a raft of top talent for good money, to fall foul tells you all need to know about the rules.
 

EPL clubs are not broke, far from it, but they are being dictated to, as to how much they can invest, and regardless of how they are performing or what cash reserves they have, they are being forced to sell their star players and/or enter into a self imposed incoming transfer ban to try and stay compliant with financial rules that are outdated and quite frankly corrupt to hand a competitive advantage to the big 6. When Newcastle who are now potentially one of if not the richest club, are scratching around unable to bring players in until they are forced to sell Bruno and or Isak, to wait for it one of the big 6, then you know the rules are corrupt. 
 

So whilst there is no doubt that the club heirarchy have made mistakes, not selling an asset in the summer after the FA Cup and giving Rodgers too much of a free reign and giving him too long last season, in wholeheartedly support the stance they are taking as these rules are absolutely ridiculous and actively prevent teams from being able to be ambitious, dream or generate any level of sustained success. It is effectively match fixing but in a different way and at a level that effectively tries to exclude any teams except the big 6 from finishing in the top 6 positions. The only reason it isn’t quite panning out as planned is that both Chelsea and Man Utd have made such a cluster**** of being handed such an advantage. 
 

As for the proposed new rules, whilst they are different, it still ensures the big 6 are given a competitive advantage, as they generate higher revenues so will have far more wriggle room than the rest. Nothing will change and the % threshold of spend will just make it more difficult for the other 14 to keep their best players who will just get picked off by the big 6 at will as they will be able to offer contracts way in excess of the others. 
 

I am glad we are going swinging hard, I am done with this corrupt shit show, this isn’t sport anymore it’s becoming more and more like F1 where there a small number of teams that are genuinely competitive and the rest are there to be nothing more than also rans to make up the numbers. The game is on its arse and soon enough it will be where every week the big 6 will be steamrolling one of the rest by 3,4 or 5 week in week out. That is not what football has been about in this country and I for one hope we do as a club fight for the right to be  ambitious, be brave and have a go at disrupting these spoilt little brats who want to control the money and their place at the top of football. 
 

 

I usually agree with pretty much everything you post but I don't on this.

 

Yes the PSR rules need modifying and the % of revenue isn't that much different to the current rules except at least it fluctuates with the changes in the economic world. But the crux of this is, many are arguing that ambitious team should be allowed to rack up huge losses in pursuit of ambition. £105m losses (which is actually way more considering the £105m is net of the allowable deductibles) every 3 years is unfair? Why is it?

 

The big 6 pull in far more in commercial revenue than the rest of us, that is not a PSR or PL rule, it's business. It's no different to what's happened through the ages in football except its now on a huge bigger scale because football has ate itself. However, there's a hierarchy in football as there has tended to be but its now nigh on impregnable due to what these juggernaut clubs can warn around the world. Are you saying that's wrong? 

 

I'm not against the ability of owners to be allowed to plough serious investment in to a club in order to challenge but I'm at a loss as to what that looks like that protects clubs from going bust and the ramifications on the wider game for clubs given carte blanche.

 

The Premier League generates such vast sums of money, teams in the league for a sustained period of time really ought to have no excuses for pleading its unfair. They earn vastly more than much bigger and established clubs around Europe but unfortunately its been swept up in paying more and more for players from these said clubs for way over the market price and for wages way more than they'd earn elsewhere. Nature of the beast I suppose but this shouldn't come as a surprise to those complicit in it.

 

Clubs like Leicester achieved what we achieved by being innovative, slightly fortunate but exceptionally well thought out. That's the benchmark, we no longer had the ability or inclination to do that an instead tried to go toe to toe with those that do things wastefully in pursuit of supposed ambition. Not for me Clive' i've very little sympathy for us and this has been coming.

[CosbehFox]

I shouldn’t be amazed that people are falling for the noise. This is like the fake news tactics used by politicians. Shout a lot about the punishments and their legitimacy with the league. 
 

In the process, there’s an ignorance to the very first genuine rule break. Ie. We busted the £105m PSR limit - there’s little to no argument on that point. If we still in the PL, we’d have minus four points and it would all be done bar an appeal. 

Edited 23 March by CosbehFox

[kenny]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

I shouldn’t be amazed that people are falling for the noise. This is like the fake news tactics used by politicians. Shout a lot about the punishments and their legitimacy with the league. 
 

In the process, there’s an ignorance to the very first genuine rule break. Ie. We busted the £105m PSR limit - there’s little to no argument on that point. 

Is that confirmed as yet? I know there are suspicions by the league that we have, but is it more about the arguments about what can or cannot be written off in psr terms?

 

I get the impression that our argument is that we have complied but it's dodgy ground Everton style.

[LCFCJohn]

Most of my angry is aimed at the club for being such a shambles.

 

However, remember when the whole ‘super league‘ drama happened and there was demand to deduct points and punish ‘the 6’. And what was the response? Oh yes, ‘you can’t punish the fans for the owners’.

 

But of course, anybody outside ‘the 6’, yeah it’s fine, drag them through the dirt, deduct points, do all you can to damage the clubs and the local economies that rely on them right! It re-emphasises that fans and communities are an irrelevance.

 

That said, as well as those running the club deserving this, so does a large part of our fan base. Those who fought in the stands against those wanting Rodgers gone and shouting down those who were demanding change. Those who shout down any suggesting the club is not perfect with ‘it’ll be fine’. In short, KPFC fans not LCFC. You do deserve this but no doubt will be first out the door if/when we have a spell like we did 20 years ago….

 

 

[Claudio Fannieri]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I usually agree with pretty much everything you post but I don't on this.

 

Yes the PSR rules need modifying and the % of revenue isn't that much different to the current rules except at least it fluctuates with the changes in the economic world. But the crux of this is, many are arguing that ambitious team should be allowed to rack up huge losses in pursuit of ambition. £105m losses (which is actually way more considering the £105m is net of the allowable deductibles) every 3 years is unfair? Why is it?

 

The big 6 pull in far more in commercial revenue than the rest of us, that is not a PSR or PL rule, it's business. It's no different to what's happened through the ages in football except its now on a huge bigger scale because football has ate itself. However, there's a hierarchy in football as there has tended to be but its now nigh on impregnable due to what these juggernaut clubs can warn around the world. Are you saying that's wrong? 

 

I'm not against the ability of owners to be allowed to plough serious investment in to a club in order to challenge but I'm at a loss as to what that looks like that protects clubs from going bust and the ramifications on the wider game for clubs given carte blanche.

 

The Premier League generates such vast sums of money, teams in the league for a sustained period of time really ought to have no excuses for pleading its unfair. They warn vastly more than much bigger and established clubs around Europe but unfortunately its been swept up in paying more and more for players from these said clubs for way over the market price and for wages way more than they'd earn elsewhere. Nature of the beast I suppose but this shouldn't come as a surprise to those complicit in it.

 

Clubs like Leicester achieved what we achieved by being innovative, slightly fortunate but exceptionally well thought out. That's the benchmark, we no longer had the ability or inclination to do that an instead tried to go toe to toe with those that do things tastefully. I've very little sympathy for us and this has been coming.

I agree rules are rules and we have been absolutely masters of our own demise and there is no doubt the club needs a massive overhaul, however that doesn’t mean that the rules are right, the fact is the rules have been introduced to stop clubs being innovative, most teams will have a maximum of 3/4 years before they are pillaged by the big 6 and/or they naturally max out, like we did, hit their glass ceiling and fall away. It is happening to Brentford and I honestly believe it will happen to Brighton, and many more. Any club operating outside of Champions League with a stadium of less than 40,000 capacity is going to struggle with these rules to maintain any level of competitiveness. 
 

what I will say is that not agreeing with the rules but still recognising the massive mess the hierarchy have made of the club do not have to be mutually exclusive. I hate what modern football has become but also recognise the absolute pits the club has become in the last 2/3 seasons in our commercial and financial operations. 

[MattFox]

11 hours ago, RonnieTodger said:

Can’t believe what I’m reading. This has nothing to do with Leicester winning the Premier League.

 

Grow up. 

It’s the narrative the club want to get out though 

 

Anyone cheering for some faceless lawyer can do one too

[Babylon]

8 hours ago, irishfoxkev said:

Sky Sports just had brief discussion on reports in back page of the Times and Sun tomorrow that we’re taking legal proceedings against  the EPL  and EFL.

They called it a watershed moment as unlike Everton and Forest who s held their hands up and hoped for softer penalties we’re going gung-ho defending our rights to pursue ambitions.....

Is that what we are arguing? I haven’t seen the cases we’ve brought but it sounded like we were just fighting their rights to get involved at this moment in time, not ambitions.

[stu]

 

[kenny]

6 minutes ago, stu said:

 

I like John ashworth.

 

It's a shame he didn't add, why can the premier league move quicker to deal with possible breaches of PSR rules for relegated clubs than it can for setting tribunal fees for illegally poached youth players by big 6 clubs.

 

Furthermore what are the proposals for the league to ensure that clubs are not asset stripped in a way that makes being competitive and sustainable almost impossible.

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, stu said:

[Milo]

9 minutes ago, stu said:

 

Well that looks like it was written by a petulant sixth former. 
 

And I’m not sure many fans have actually acted with disbelief, either. 
 

More a resigned weariness at the predictability of it all. 
 

Anyway, he’s demanded answers. So let’s see. 

[StanSP]

Just now, Milo said:

Well that looks like it was written by a petulant sixth former. 
 

And I’m not sure many fans have actually acted with disbelief, either. 
 

More a resigned weariness at the predictability of it all. 
 

Anyway, he’s demanded answers. So let’s see. 

Yep. He's demanded answers but I don't think he'll get them. 

[Vestan Pance]

22 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

I agree rules are rules and we have been absolutely masters of our own demise and there is no doubt the club needs a massive overhaul, however that doesn’t mean that the rules are right, the fact is the rules have been introduced to stop clubs being innovative, most teams will have a maximum of 3/4 years before they are pillaged by the big 6 and/or they naturally max out, like we did, hit their glass ceiling and fall away. It is happening to Brentford and I honestly believe it will happen to Brighton, and many more. Any club operating outside of Champions League with a stadium of less than 40,000 capacity is going to struggle with these rules to maintain any level of competitiveness. 
 

what I will say is that not agreeing with the rules but still recognising the massive mess the hierarchy have made of the club do not have to be mutually exclusive. I hate what modern football has become but also recognise the absolute pits the club has become in the last 2/3 seasons in our commercial and financial operations. 

Absolutely, I think most can see that these rules are a complete mess and unfair, but again we are seeing LCFC in total denial mode. Bring out the lawyers and keep digging the hole, no accountability whatsoever.