Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[ShepshedFox1884]

9 minutes ago, Vestan Pance said:

I'm thinking we can go one further than the Man City over inflated sponsorship FFP compliance technique.

 

Last game of the season is made pay on the gate, season tickets are cancelled, instead of a donut or beer, Top gifts us all £1000 which coincidentally is the ticket price for the match. As if by magic £30m appears in the LCFC coffers. 

Genius 

If only we did this earlier 

[Terraloon]

2 hours ago, ShepshedFox1884 said:

Genius 

If only we did this earlier 

Some years ago I was doing some work at a non League club. Needed to boost income so all suggestions were welcome.

Printed matter such as newspapers magazines and football programmes are VAT free. Bear  in mind if you pay £10 entrance fee to get into a match 20% of that is VAT  so the club only gets £8. A Matchday programme at the time cost £2 buy and one and pay to get in it would cost  the punter £12 but the club only gets  £10

A genius idea but doomed to failure came from one of the directors was to charge £11 for a matchday programme and give free entrance.

As Del Boy would say everyone was a winner alas the VAT man he say no

Edited 23 March by Terraloon

[Ric Flair]

Aren't we the last team who should cry ambition is inhibited by PSR rules? I mean, we are literally the ONLY club outside the big 6 that has succeeded over a number of years and won major honours whilst complying with PSR. Our failure wasn't because our luck ran out, it was because we stopped doing what made us successful and the envy of others in the first place. It's really disrespectful of those who built what we did.

 

If we were that appalled by the PSR rules all along, why weren't we challenging it whilst complying with it from 2014-2022? Why were we selling a major asset every season and publicly explaining to our fans it was the only sustainable way for us to progress year on year? 

 

This is why it doesn't wash with me. We knew the rules, we got entitled because we'd actually achieved and yet our commercial revenue was nowhere near those we aspired to dine at the top table with. That's the difference here. The perceived unfairness is because these juggernaut clubs get sponsorship deals with all and sundry around the world for hundreds of millions of pounds and we're still the spotty little urchin at the back of the queue lucky to get herpes off a bog seat.

 

You don't challenge the rules by breaking them and expect to be let off,  perhaps we presumed it was OK to break them because of a notion other clubs were and getting away with it. Eventually the PL were going to take this seriously and they have. Our entire model moved from complying and competing to basically having to qualify for the Champions League and pull in £250m in revenue a season to offset our obscene wage bill. 

 

And finally if we think these rules are immoral and unfair, why were we making noises to sue those that broke them and not those that set them which cost us our PL status as a result. Don't hate the player hate the game? Bollocks

 

 

[inckley fox]

7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Just laughing at this passage in @davieG's latest post in this closed topic: (PS, fully appreciate you closing the replies, it's a good idea to have a catalog of such articles and to keep that thread updated)

 

 

"Some feel Leicester cynically chose to keep a Premier League-level squad together this season, knowing they were unlikely to be punished for it until they had already gained their objective."

 

Leicester:

Sold: Maddison, Barnes, Castagne.

Released: Soyuncu, Evans, Mendy, Amartey, Tielemans, Bertrand, Perez.

 

10 players, 9 of whom won the FA Cup with us and 1 also won the Premier League with us.

 

And the 3 we sold were seriously devalued thanks to our relegation.

 

Such a blatant lie, and an clear sign of what we're going to be up against. The Premier League and the EFL will use people's general ignorance as a weapon.

While I share the same frustrations about the unfairness of the whole thing, te problem here is that this argument also ignores the hefty spending which came from those cut-price sales. We weren't fishing in the smaller ponds, picking up Max Bird or Jason Knight for 1-2m apiece. We spent 4 times the amount those guys went for on Harry Winks, with wages that will also dwarf those combined amounts. We didn't settle for the two international keepers we had, or Stolarczyk, we had to buy a fourth for a multi-million fee, because we'd opted for a manager with a one-dimensional outlook on the game who simply couldn't get by with that option. And when we thought we might only have one striker available for 4 or 5 mid-season games, instead of saying 'hey, but we have four very good CFs on our books' we said 'let's splash out 8m or 9m on a guy with a broken back whom we'll barely play'. When we looked at our four or five very valid CB options, we chose to part with the sort of sum which most FLC sides can only dream of, in order for CB#6 to simply sit on the bench all season long. This was not a club cutting its cloth accordingly. And we gained very little, Winks aside, from that particular bout of profligacy. It remains to be seen whether the end-product is even promotion-worthy.

 

I love the club and think it's worth people having a sense of balance before they call for Top to go. Okay, I've always felt that KP's role has been hugely overstated, and that it"s easier to align our success with the impact of NP, his backroom staff and players than it is with the board - but even so, they have tended to act in very good faith (even if that turns out not to be the case this time) and they allowed us to thrive where previous boards of ours wouldn't have. But some of the arguments on here are extremely thin, and at times veer into persecution-complex territory.

 

It might surprise some fans that mismanagement over the course of many years may finally have got us into serious trouble. For others, it won't shock them at all, and they may well appreciate why some clubs - and not only Leeds or Southampton - are a bit miffed by the advantage we've supposedly tried to gain. If people had their eyes open to this sort of mismanagement, and how the only person who any club can be sure is responsible is the owner (instead of Top, think Mel Morris, who was equally lauded at Derby), then the owner in question might put a little more effort into doing his job properly. I hope we ask the right questions in the weeks and months to come.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

10 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

 Our entire model moved from complying and competing to basically having to qualify for the Champions League and pull in £250m in revenue a season to offset our obscene wage bill. 

 

It was never going to end well paying the big money wages as we’re not a club who could sustain the level of competition that comes with that wage - in terms of income but also the expectations of players. And low and behold when you can’t, players run down their contracts because no one else is daft enough to meet what we’re paying them and malaise/rot sets in - and we basically snookered ourself. 

In contrast look what made us successful. Buying talent and prospects, on wages with room for progression for salary and performance. Once you take away the incentive to achieve more money you’re ****ed. Perhaps if you have dubious characters you’re doubly ****ed. It is absolutely shocking that this was allowed to happen and we deviated from it. It just screams no awareness of the big picture, economics or sports/human psychology really.

 

If the likes of Brighton learn anything from us, it’s to keep on doing what they’re doing. We shot for the stars, and ended up sleeping rough with the winos out the back of Majestic. 

Edited 24 March by Wasyls Pec Deck

[katieakita]

Does anyone have an idea how much we have breached these rules by are we talking a few million or tens of millions

[JimmyC74]

22 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Aren't we the last team who should cry ambition is inhibited by PSR rules? I mean, we are literally the ONLY club outside the big 6 that has succeeded over a number of years and won major honours whilst complying with PSR. Our failure wasn't because our luck ran out, it was because we stopped doing what made us successful and the envy of others in the first place. It's really disrespectful of those who built what we did.

 

If we were that appalled by the PSR rules all along, why weren't we challenging it whilst complying with it from 2014-2022? Why were we selling a major asset every season and publicly explaining to our fans it was the only sustainable way for us to progress year on year? 

 

This is why it doesn't wash with me. We knew the rules, we got entitled because we'd actually achieved and yet our commercial revenue was nowhere near those we aspired to dine at the top table with. That's the difference here. The perceived unfairness is because these juggernaut clubs get sponsorship deals with all and sundry around the world for hundreds of millions of pounds and we're still the spotty little urchin at the back of the queue lucky to get herpes off a bog seat.

 

You don't challenge the rules by breaking them and expect to be let off,  perhaps we presumed it was OK to break them because of a notion other clubs were and getting away with it. Eventually the PL were going to take this seriously and they have. Our entire model moved from complying and competing to basically having to qualify for the Champions League and pull in £250m in revenue a season to offset our obscene wage bill. 

 

And finally if we think these rules are immoral and unfair, why were we making noises to sue those that broke them and not those that set them which cost us our PL status as a result. Don't hate the player hate the game? Bollocks

 

 

I agree with you in many respects, but finding gems from the youth system or lower leagues and selling them on for large profits and then proceeds being reinvested is an in exact science and difficult to sustain. Particularly if you haven’t got best in class recruitment and coaches.  

 

I think there should be a degree of flexibility that allows owners with significant wealth to invest in their squad to make European competitions and compete in multiple competitions. The alternative is that the usual suspects continue to dominate as they have mostly done over the years.

 

That said I think some of the noise is a deflection tactic,  particularly because we have too often failed in the transfer market and are suffering for it.

Edited 23 March by JimmyC74

[Spiritwalker]

3 hours ago, Vestan Pance said:

I'm thinking we can go one further than the Man City over inflated sponsorship FFP compliance technique.

 

Last game of the season is made pay on the gate, season tickets are cancelled, instead of a donut or beer, Top gifts us all £1000 which coincidentally is the ticket price for the match. As if by magic £30m appears in the LCFC coffers. 

Good idea but what if we just keep the £1000 and give the game a miss?

[Ric Flair]

27 minutes ago, JimmyC74 said:

I agree with you in many respects, but finding gems from the youth system or lower leagues and selling them on for large profits and then proceeds being reinvested is an in exact science and difficult to sustain. Particularly if you haven’t got best in class recruitment and coaches.  

 

I think there should be a degree of flexibility that allows owners with significant wealth to invest in their squad to make European competitions and compete in multiple competitions. The alternative is that the usual suspects continue to dominate as they have mostly done over the years.

 

That said I think some of the noise is a deflection tactic,  particularly because we have too often failed in the transfer market and are suffering for it.

The upshot of allowing that though is the problems just get worse and worse. You really think the big 6 would just spend within their means? No, they'd be out of control and inflate the market even more, pressuring the chasing pack to spend more and more and the vicious circle goes on and on.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

Another little nugget to consider is Enzo was completely in the dark, he anticipated being backed further in January despite the club knowing by then whether they'd breached 2022/23 and were on course to do the same for 2023/24. 

 

Could it be that the change by the club was because the EFL were trying to do to get our forecast (which may have highlighted we'd breach in 2023/24) rather than not finding out until the season was over and hopefully we'd be back promoted? 

 

If so, not great is it?

[JimmyC74]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The upshot of allowing that though is the problems just get worse and worse. You really think the big 6 would just spend within their means? No, they'd be out of control and inflate the market even more, pressuring the chasing pack to spend more and more and the vicious circle goes on and on.

 

 

Maybe so. Just think there must be some opportunity to progress / challenge otherwise what’s the point.

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Aren't we the last team who should cry ambition is inhibited by PSR rules? I mean, we are literally the ONLY club outside the big 6 that has succeeded over a number of years and won major honours whilst complying with PSR. Our failure wasn't because our luck ran out, it was because we stopped doing what made us successful and the envy of others in the first place. It's really disrespectful of those who built what we did.

 

If we were that appalled by the PSR rules all along, why weren't we challenging it whilst complying with it from 2014-2022? Why were we selling a major asset every season and publicly explaining to our fans it was the only sustainable way for us to progress year on year? 

 

This is why it doesn't wash with me. We knew the rules, we got entitled because we'd actually achieved and yet our commercial revenue was nowhere near those we aspired to dine at the top table with. That's the difference here. The perceived unfairness is because these juggernaut clubs get sponsorship deals with all and sundry around the world for hundreds of millions of pounds and we're still the spotty little urchin at the back of the queue lucky to get herpes off a bog seat.

 

You don't challenge the rules by breaking them and expect to be let off,  perhaps we presumed it was OK to break them because of a notion other clubs were and getting away with it. Eventually the PL were going to take this seriously and they have. Our entire model moved from complying and competing to basically having to qualify for the Champions League and pull in £250m in revenue a season to offset our obscene wage bill. 

 

And finally if we think these rules are immoral and unfair, why were we making noises to sue those that broke them and not those that set them which cost us our PL status as a result. Don't hate the player hate the game? Bollocks

 

 

Some brilliant points. But, if we knew all along that we had to sell in order to be compliant, why did we stop doing that in 2021? And then not make it abundantly clear to the manager that losses would have to be recouped a year later if we fell short?

 

Any way I look at it, the situation reflects horribly on those in charge. Everything else is just moaning about something we'd rarely seen fit to moan about while it suited us not to.

[Mickyblueeyes]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Aren't we the last team who should cry ambition is inhibited by PSR rules? I mean, we are literally the ONLY club outside the big 6 that has succeeded over a number of years and won major honours whilst complying with PSR. Our failure wasn't because our luck ran out, it was because we stopped doing what made us successful and the envy of others in the first place. It's really disrespectful of those who built what we did.

 

If we were that appalled by the PSR rules all along, why weren't we challenging it whilst complying with it from 2014-2022? Why were we selling a major asset every season and publicly explaining to our fans it was the only sustainable way for us to progress year on year? 

 

This is why it doesn't wash with me. We knew the rules, we got entitled because we'd actually achieved and yet our commercial revenue was nowhere near those we aspired to dine at the top table with. That's the difference here. The perceived unfairness is because these juggernaut clubs get sponsorship deals with all and sundry around the world for hundreds of millions of pounds and we're still the spotty little urchin at the back of the queue lucky to get herpes off a bog seat.

 

You don't challenge the rules by breaking them and expect to be let off,  perhaps we presumed it was OK to break them because of a notion other clubs were and getting away with it. Eventually the PL were going to take this seriously and they have. Our entire model moved from complying and competing to basically having to qualify for the Champions League and pull in £250m in revenue a season to offset our obscene wage bill. 

 

And finally if we think these rules are immoral and unfair, why were we making noises to sue those that broke them and not those that set them which cost us our PL status as a result. Don't hate the player hate the game? Bollocks

 

 

I tell you what scares me even more. We risked the bank pre 21/22 with a number of unproven signings. Two of which (Daka and Soumare) on signing were immediately referred to as “bed in signings” and not to expect much in their first season - questionable given we were aiming to take the risk to compete with the top 6, regularly. That doesn’t even take in the cb and lb signed with no intention to play them. 
 

However, what really scares me is the following season after the absolute blunder of the season before, we had no intention of selling an “asset” until an asset (Fofana) forced our hand. Imagine if he didn’t and we went down and had to sell him cut price like we did with Barnes/Maddison - that’s if he wasn’t injured like he is now. The lack of actual action that summer was horrendous.
 

We’ve unwisely invested considerable sums of money which, with or without inflation, levels this club has never seen before. Walsh, his set up and Macia with his set up gifted us a few cash cows. We have no long term benefit to show for it because of what’s left. 
 

Now, compare that to Wolves (I’m sure they don’t do everything right), who changed manager, had a fire sale and set up a structure to combat a horrendous position. They’ll consolidate, regroup and in a couple of years, go again.

 

The ambition argument from us is bullshit. Vichai, Macia etc. set up a structure pre 2016 debacle and that served us extremely well. By no means perfect but the do nothing alongside **** ups of Top, Rudkin, Rodgers and congerton will have us reeling for years. Top needs to go first and foremost and his lot can follow but we have no hope with him sitting in that head chair. 

Edited 23 March by Mickyblueeyes

[Spudulike]

Just been scrolling through OTIB, given they are our next opponents, and found an interesting thread about our situation. Seems to be a switched on poster over there (Mr Popodopolous) . 

 

https://www.otib.co.uk/topic/224809-leicester-city-points-deduction/page/3/#comments

 

Edited 23 March by Spudulike

[Gamble92]

3 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Just been scrolling through OTIB, given they are our next opponents, and found an interesting thread about our situation. Seems to be a switched on poster over there... 

 

https://www.otib.co.uk/topic/224809-leicester-city-points-deduction/page/3/#comments

 

Why they so bothered? 

[KFS]

Just now, Gamble92 said:

Why they so bothered? 

They always have been. Seem to think there’s some sort of rivalry or something. Just another bog standard championship club we need to put to the sword imo. 

[Ric Flair]

20 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I tell you what scares me even more. We risked the bank pre 21/22 with a number of unproven signings. Two of which (Daka and Soumare) on signing were immediately referred to as “bed in signings” and not to expect much in their first season - questionable given we were aiming to take the risk to compete with the top 6, regularly. That doesn’t even take in the cb and lb signed with no intention to play them. 
 

However, what really scares me is the following season after the absolute blunder of the season before, we had no intention of selling an “asset” until an asset (Fofana) forced our hand. Imagine if he didn’t and we went down and had to sell him cut price like we did with Barnes/Maddison - that’s if he wasn’t injured like he is now. The lack of actual action that summer was horrendous.
 

We’ve unwisely invested considerable sums of money which, with or without inflation, levels this club has never seen before. Walsh, his set up and Macia with his set up gifted us a few cash cows. We have no long term benefit to show for it because of what’s left. 
 

Now, compare that to Wolves (I’m sure they don’t do everything right), who changed manager, had a fire sale and set up a structure to combat a horrendous position. They’ll consolidate, regroup and in a couple of years, go again.

 

The ambition argument from us is bullshit. Vichai, Macia etc. set up a structure pre 2016 debacle and that served us extremely well. By no means perfect but the do nothing alongside **** ups of Top, Rudkin, Rodgers and congerton will have us reeling for years. Top needs to go first and foremost and his lot can follow but we have no hope with him sitting in that head chair. 

Yes, we supposedly weren't going to sell Fofana. I cannot wait to see what the losses were for 2022/23 because don't forget its highly likely Maddison's sale was included in 2022/23 as well and yet we're still being told we've breached?

 

Frightening. How on earth aren't our fans absolutely livid at this?

[Cropwellfox]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes, we supposedly weren't going to sell Fofana. I cannot wait to see what the losses were for 2022/23 because don't forget its highly likely Maddison's sale was included in 2022/23 as well and yet we're still being told we've breached?

 

Frightening. How on earth aren't our fans absolutely livid at this?

I think when the accounts are published and the scale of the ineptitude is laid bare the anger will build very very quickly against Top, Rudkin, Whelan and co. They’ve brought down everything that Vichai built up. 

[blueharmie]

Honestly, every day that goes by the more and more non league interests me, harborough town by the way 

 

 

Honestly this is an absolute joke now at Leicester from this shit atmosphere to ticketing woes .

 

**** all this crap , I've been watching Leicester since the 90s and honestly ill always follow them but the magic has well and truly gone.

 

Now have have to get my 4 year old interested in Leicester and it's hard work 

 

**** the premier league.

Edited 23 March by blueharmie

[Brizzle Fox]

9 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

Why they so bothered? 

I would imagine there are similar threads on most other clubs' forums, but that forum in particular has had a long running thread that looks across all clubs in FFP/PSR difficulties. We're simply the latest subject matter.

 

The perception of cheating, tends to make a lot of other clubs' fans feel like they've been directly,  detrimentally impacted by such actions, whether they have or haven't (note previous glee/anger on here regarding Everton, Notts Forest etc).

 

Hardly surprising therefore that other clubs' fans may be interested/bothered about our shenanigans. 

 

[OnlyOneCity]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes, we supposedly weren't going to sell Fofana. I cannot wait to see what the losses were for 2022/23 because don't forget its highly likely Maddison's sale was included in 2022/23 as well and yet we're still being told we've breached?

 

Frightening. How on earth aren't our fans absolutely livid at this?

Apart from probably not fully understanding the financial details of it all, how do you know they’re not absolutely livid? Not all fans post on FT. Doesn’t mean they don’t have an opinion.

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Another little nugget to consider is Enzo was completely in the dark, he anticipated being backed further in January despite the club knowing by then whether they'd breached 2022/23 and were on course to do the same for 2023/24. 

 

Could it be that the change by the club was because the EFL were trying to do to get our forecast (which may have highlighted we'd breach in 2023/24) rather than not finding out until the season was over and hopefully we'd be back promoted? 

 

If so, not great is it?

He can't be that thick.....

[Ric Flair]

Just now, OnlyOneCity said:

Apart from probably not fully understanding the financial details of it all, how do you know they’re not absolutely livid? Not all fans post on FT. Doesn’t mean they don’t have an opinion.

Fair point, I'm just going on the overwhelming amount of fans who were the same lot spending their evenings up in arms on here and on social media at the injustice of Everton and co and now it's us there's suddenly such anger to the governing bodies for unfair rules. It's hilarious. 

 

Our priority as fans should be demanding those who are in charge of our club prove they are accountable and what their plans are to remedy this. Thats more of a priority than the sideshow of challenging the rules we have seemingly breached, which is posturing at best and delay tactics. 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, coolhandfox said:

He can't be that thick.....

Brendan seemingly was too, when once again the club will have known the consequences of the actions they took in 2021/22.

 

 

[Cropwellfox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Fair point, I'm just going on the overwhelming amount of fans who were the same lot spending their evenings up in arms on here and on social media at the injustice of Everton and co and now it's us there's suddenly such anger to the governing bodies for unfair rules. It's hilarious. 

 

Our priority as fans should be demanding those who are in charge of our club prove they are accountable and what their plans are to remedy this. Thats more of a priority than the sideshow of challenging the rules we have seemingly breached, which is posturing at best and delay tactics. 

This all day. The legal challenge with the PR spin and posturing that we are somehow defending the rights of any club with ambition is a dangerous and frankly bizarre sideshow to draw attention away from the fact that those in charge deliberately moved away from the model Vichai worked with, pissed tens and tens of millions up the wall and have pretty much destroyed the legacy created. Fail to go up and things will be worse than we can imagine  - the pressure this will be creating for the players will absolutely not help us over the next month. Shame on Top, shame on Rudkin, shame on Whelan. You should trust those who are custodians of our club to do the right things, they’ve monumentally failed us.