Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[john ridley]

I dont understand  how last season we were still going to spend a fortune  on Harrison  from leeds,and the finances  then must have been  dire and yet he could've  been another  on 100 grand a week plus transfer  fee , the mind boggles. 

[Pliskin]

3 minutes ago, john ridley said:

I dont understand  how last season we were still going to spend a fortune  on Harrison  from leeds,and the finances  then must have been  dire and yet he could've  been another  on 100 grand a week plus transfer  fee , the mind boggles. 

It is frightening….. it makes you wonder who was making these calls…….. would be nice to actually know. 

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, john ridley said:

I dont understand  how last season we were still going to spend a fortune  on Harrison  from leeds,and the finances  then must have been  dire and yet he could've  been another  on 100 grand a week plus transfer  fee , the mind boggles. 

I come back to this time and time again. It's the smoking gun. It tends to be ignored by many.

[coolhandfox]

21 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Brendan seemingly was too, when once again the club will have known the consequences of the actions they took in 2021/22.

 

 

Bit different, anyone anyone with a causal eye on us last season and our business should have realised.

 

 

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I come back to this time and time again. It's the smoking gun. It tends to be ignored by many.

Honestly I think the clubs thought it would be a slap on the wrist and a fine.

 

The points deductions have taken everyone by surprise.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

Bit different, anyone anyone with a causal eye on us last season and our business should have realised.

 

 

But the club presumably told Enzo differently. Potential budgets and plans would have been discussed when he agreed to join. 

 

If the plan was to throw everything at it last summer when our financial predicament wouldn't be scrutinised then he'd have known that and that January would not be a window we'd operate in without sales (anyone with a causal eye on us would know we don't sell anyone bar highly coveted players).

 

He may well have been playing the game, he may well already be sick of being the only voice of LCFC and knew what was coming but it wouldn't be the first time a managers been kept in the dark here. Jordan Blackwell insinuated Enzo had been lied to or at the very least not informed prior to January.

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Honestly I think the clubs thought it would be a slap on the wrist and a fine.

 

The points deductions have taken everyone by surprise.

Doesn't explain what we were doing in the summer of 2022 if they were that blasé.

[Supergray22]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Another little nugget to consider is Enzo was completely in the dark, he anticipated being backed further in January despite the club knowing by then whether they'd breached 2022/23 and were on course to do the same for 2023/24. 

 

Could it be that the change by the club was because the EFL were trying to do to get our forecast (which may have highlighted we'd breach in 2023/24) rather than not finding out until the season was over and hopefully we'd be back promoted? 

 

If so, not great is it?

What’s most worrying is the trajectory of these losses and mismanagement. It appears that there is no individual or governance in place to challenge and ask the right questions to get us back on course in a sensible sustainable manner.  In any other organisation changes would have been made before now. 

[Pita]

The management have made a total mess of everything. Needs a new set of people at the top. King power ( top ) has let other people run Leicester which was a massive mistake 

[CosbehFox]

38 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

But the club presumably told Enzo differently. Potential budgets and plans would have been discussed when he agreed to join. 

 

 

Particularly given the closeness of the club and the agent of Enzo, John Morris 

[Mickyblueeyes]

50 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

But the club presumably told Enzo differently. Potential budgets and plans would have been discussed when he agreed to join. 

 

If the plan was to throw everything at it last summer when our financial predicament wouldn't be scrutinised then he'd have known that and that January would not be a window we'd operate in without sales (anyone with a causal eye on us would know we don't sell anyone bar highly coveted players).

 

He may well have been playing the game, he may well already be sick of being the only voice of LCFC and knew what was coming but it wouldn't be the first time a managers been kept in the dark here. Jordan Blackwell insinuated Enzo had been lied to or at the very least not informed prior to January.

 

11 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Particularly given the closeness of the club and the agent of Enzo, John Morris 

It was heavily reported last summer that the club will have the biggest summer transfer budget. For a championship side, we spent very heavily. Winks, Mavididi were obvious replacements for Barnes and Maddison. Coady was signed to compete with Faes, Vestegaard, Souttar, Nelson, Doyle and even Justin. Really needed ? We also entered loan deals with conditional commitments for Fatawu and Akgun. Both signing after a few comments from Enzo in the press that we needed wingers. Cannon perhaps one for the future but at £8 million. 
 

We’ve either gone into this season with an all or nothing approach in the summer where you hope Enzo was made very aware of the approach - his interviews suggest otherwise. Or  (quite naively) played it by window. 
 

Regardless of approach, with the situation we are in, why are we signing Coady with Souttar still here. Why are we signing Cannon “for the future” for such a hefty fee at this level. Why are we (potentially) committing to two fairly expensive loans. 
 

It just seems reckless. It gets me thinking that Enzo perhaps wasn’t fed the full story pre-January. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes, we supposedly weren't going to sell Fofana. I cannot wait to see what the losses were for 2022/23 because don't forget its highly likely Maddison's sale was included in 2022/23 as well and yet we're still being told we've breached?

 

Frightening. How on earth aren't our fans absolutely livid at this?

I think a lot of people are too emotionally invested in the owners and specifically Top (which I can understand to an extent) to countenance the idea that they don't really know what they're doing and are basically making it up as they go along. If you imagine that e.g. relegation was all part of a genius strategic plan to regroup and rebuild in the Championship rather than a totally avoidable disaster, or that we're in the financial shit because everyone in football hates us rather than because we've been continuously mismanaged and wasted loads of money on players we don't use and can't sell, then you can also imagine that this is all just a little bump in the road and we're in good hands.

[whetstonefox]

Out of interest where do the loans from Macquarie fit in? I am not sure how much we owe on them and how they are linked if we don’t go up so not a clue if they will make life difficult. Quite scary not knowing how much trouble we may or may not be in. 

[st albans fox]

7 hours ago, whetstonefox said:

Out of interest where do the loans from Macquarie fit in? I am not sure how much we owe on them and how they are linked if we don’t go up so not a clue if they will make life difficult. Quite scary not knowing how much trouble we may or may not be in. 

I assume you could see on the June 23 accounts how much we owed them at that point in time.  We have loan agreements with them to draw down monies ahead of time secured on future incomes from tv deals. How much of that money we have actually drawn down is unclear until you see the accounts and what loans are o/s.  The 21/22 accounts referenced loan availabilities (for cash flow) with king power and Macquarie was referenced re draw downs on the fofana deal post end of year. 
 

once the new accounts are filed this week then I think we have a few accountants on here who will break the bad news. I think they will look dreadful. 

 

 

Edited 24 March by st albans fox

[foxfanazer]

Any indication on what the points deduction would be? Is our case more severe than Everton's and F*rest

[LinekersLugs]

4 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Any indication on what the points deduction would be? Is our case more severe than Everton's and F*rest

Everton level

 

[ClaphamFox]

There’s not much new here, but one tidbit that may be relevant is that our breach is apparently ‘significant’ - the same category as Forest’s and Everton’s. I had feared it might be a ‘major’ breach, which would have put us in a whole different category in terms of the level of punishment:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13231749/amp/Leicesters-legal-action-against-Premier-League-EFL-sparks-anger-rival-clubs-convinced-Foxes-stalling-stop-potential-six-point-deduction-derailing-promotion-bid-season.html

[Sir Shep]

I’m no longer optimistic that we will finish top 2 this season anyway. Part of me thinks that a 6 point deduction and get it done with this season would be the best case scenario. Then hope we are mentally strong enough to win the play off final. Of cause whatever happens we will be hated by other clubs from now on, cheers board. 

[UniFox21]

Another shite article. 

Adds no new information or insight, just takes shots at clubs arguing the breach of PSR in court and how it's damaging the "consensus of the game". 

To which I'd understand, were the rules and the punishments clear and transparent; rather than the current merky waters of punishments and regulations. Given ours is additionally complex, given no league can absolutely say who is able to punish us, and that's all we're arguing, is the correct league charge us.

 

However, he does make a suggestion as to why we're throwing lawyers around:

 

"There was an outside chance that if Leicester’s case was completed this season the Premier League could come to an agreement with the EFL that a points deduction would be applied this season, in the Championship. Delays in the case work against that outcome and any possibility that Leicester’s promotion quest might be put at risk."

 

 

Goes on to state that FFP helped us win the title, which seems an aimless dig given the amounts the big 6 were spending at that time.

 

"Leicester won the Premier League title in part because spending controls meant the most powerful clubs could not leave their less wealthy competitors so far behind as to make a miracle like 2016 impossible" 

 

 

[ClaphamFox]

4 minutes ago, Sir Shep said:

I’m no longer optimistic that we will finish top 2 this season anyway. Part of me thinks that a 6 point deduction and get it done with this season would be the best case scenario. Then hope we are mentally strong enough to win the play off final. Of cause whatever happens we will be hated by other clubs from now on, cheers board. 

We’re going to ferociously resist the case being heard this season until it becomes apparent we’re heading for the play-offs anyway, at which point we’ll be phoning up the PL and EFL and saying, “Guys - can we take the six points now?”

[Pliskin]

40 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

There’s not much new here, but one tidbit that may be relevant is that our breach is apparently ‘significant’ - the same category as Forest’s and Everton’s. I had feared it might be a ‘major’ breach, which would have put us in a whole different category in terms of the level of punishment:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13231749/amp/Leicesters-legal-action-against-Premier-League-EFL-sparks-anger-rival-clubs-convinced-Foxes-stalling-stop-potential-six-point-deduction-derailing-promotion-bid-season.html

Thing is, whereas I agree with what @Ric Flair posted yesterday about the fact essentially this is nothing but our fault….

 

Theres always an opportunity to challenge. Other clubs can be furious if they want, but there’s nothing wrong with challenging rather than accepting.

 

One thing we know is that this system is all disjointed, the EFL and the EPL don’t get on, and both are trying to hit us with punishments. The EPL I think have already proven that they don’t really know what they’re doing re punishments, it’s all very ad lib and not really structured. 
 

If you take criminal law for an example, even if someone is bang to rights they will employ legal advice to fight through any loop holes to get a person off or lessen the punishment. 
 

Similar if not more relevant in civil law, because how many times have major businesses taken advantage of employees and got away with it?

 

Other clubs can be cautious if they want, but if we exploit a loop hole which ultimately causes the whole case to collapse, then everything will change.

 

Im not defending those who have got us on this mess, and I agree it’s entirely our fault, but the club must have got legal advice prior to making the decision to take up legal action, and are probably fairly confident that there’s a shortcoming in the PL policies and procedures that they can exploit. 
 

This is how fair systems are developed, they get challenged…..

Edited 24 March by Pliskin

[Ric Flair]

24 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Another shite article. 

Adds no new information or insight, just takes shots at clubs arguing the breach of PSR in court and how it's damaging the "consensus of the game". 

To which I'd understand, were the rules and the punishments clear and transparent; rather than the current merky waters of punishments and regulations. Given ours is additionally complex, given no league can absolutely say who is able to punish us, and that's all we're arguing, is the correct league charge us.

 

However, he does make a suggestion as to why we're throwing lawyers around:

 

"There was an outside chance that if Leicester’s case was completed this season the Premier League could come to an agreement with the EFL that a points deduction would be applied this season, in the Championship. Delays in the case work against that outcome and any possibility that Leicester’s promotion quest might be put at risk."

 

 

Goes on to state that FFP helped us win the title, which seems an aimless dig given the amounts the big 6 were spending at that time.

 

"Leicester won the Premier League title in part because spending controls meant the most powerful clubs could not leave their less wealthy competitors so far behind as to make a miracle like 2016 impossible" 

 

 

Did we vote for this? Pretty sure it occurred in 2013/14 when we weren't yet in the PL.

 

 

[UniFox21]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Did we vote for this? Pretty sure it occurred in 2013/14 when we weren't yet in the PL.

 

 

Yes, was introduced in 2013, so we'd have 0 involvement in anything related to them

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, UniFox21 said:

Yes, was introduced in 2013, so we'd have 0 involvement in anything related to them

I tweeted Sam Wallace to tell him this. No response so far.

[Sunbury Fox]

Imagine if we had not blown our 14 point lead to 3rd place over the last month - based on the Sam Wallace article, we could have then taken the 6 or 10 points hit this season and reduced the kind of impact we now face, even if we go up.