Popular Post Mr Weller 2 Posted 25 March Popular Post Share Posted 25 March Some people panicking on here but thankfully the club aren’t. Some people are even coming over all self righteous and backing the PL/EFL. Focus on promotion-feeding off a siege mentality-let our lawyers expose the anti-competitive PL/EFL rules for what they are and enjoy the drama. Leicester City are on the side of football outside the big 6 and I for one admire them for it. 11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ClaphamFox Posted 26 March Author Popular Post Share Posted 26 March (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr Weller 2 said: Some people panicking on here but thankfully the club aren’t. Some people are even coming over all self righteous and backing the PL/EFL. Focus on promotion-feeding off a siege mentality-let our lawyers expose the anti-competitive PL/EFL rules for what they are and enjoy the drama. Leicester City are on the side of football outside the big 6 and I for one admire them for it. I’m with you. Obviously I’d prefer we weren’t in this position, but I admit I do love a good siege mentality. There’s nothing quite like the thrill of feeling like the world hates us and wants us to fail. It’s like a heavy dose of smelling salts - it makes you feel more alive. We’re not going to get the serene end to the season we were expecting, but what we’ve got instead may well turn out to be more memorable. Hopefully in a good way. Edited 26 March by ClaphamFox 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post st albans fox Posted 26 March Popular Post Share Posted 26 March A good read 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniFox21 Posted 26 March Popular Post Share Posted 26 March 46 minutes ago, st albans fox said: A good read A really interesting read actually, the last 3 of the thread in particular to us. The thread summarises really well how poor PSR is, it doesn't punish those who already have big revenue streams. But in order to kick on you're required to spend more in the short term, and try to build that revenue up quickly. Any faltering and you're basically ****ed. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kenny Posted 26 March Popular Post Share Posted 26 March Just now, UniFox21 said: A really interesting read actually, the last 3 of the thread in particular to us. The thread summarises really well how poor PSR is, it doesn't punish those who already have big revenue streams. But in order to kick on you're required to spend more in the short term, and try to build that revenue up quickly. Any faltering and you're basically ****ed. In fairness, its what the club has known for a long time and deviated from under Rodgers. The only way to grow is to sell players to increase your turnover. You can increase commercial revenues with the stadium build etc, but its not going to raise £50m a season straight away. I believe the purpose of Seagrave was to increase the revenues from developing players which is hugely hindered if the big 6 can poach 16 year olds before they have reached a reasonable value. I don't have an issue with PSR as such except that the other rules about poaching players etc are not harsh enough to make them work. If Liverpool knew that they would be paying £5m up front for Nyoni with a further £25m in add-ons to reflect his value had they signed him from Leicester as a first teamer at 21 then clubs like ours would be better protected from being asset stripped then penalised for not having enough assets to sell to raise revenue. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARM1968 Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March It is basically a system designed to maintain the status quo. Almost impossible to fly high enough to compete with the big boys without your wings melting. The big teams have far more revenue and so are insulated to a degree. I wonder what would happen if you reversed the prize money, so that winning the Prem was for winnings sake and not for the money? Probably stupid and liable to cause a mad scramble to the bottom, but we need a radical rethink as the divide between clubs is just getting wider and wider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March "Whatever happened to Leicester isn't bad management...it's just spending more than their revenue and under performing for 2 years" Sounds like it's been written by Rudkin. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 5 minutes ago, ARM1968 said: It is basically a system designed to maintain the status quo. Almost impossible to fly high enough to compete with the big boys without your wings melting. The big teams have far more revenue and so are insulated to a degree. I wonder what would happen if you reversed the prize money, so that winning the Prem was for winnings sake and not for the money? Probably stupid and liable to cause a mad scramble to the bottom, but we need a radical rethink as the divide between clubs is just getting wider and wider. The prize money for those in Europe is peanuts and negligible and everything for those that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 13 minutes ago, davieG said: The prize money for those in Europe is peanuts and negligible and everything for those that don't. It’s not peanuts in the champions league ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARM1968 Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 11 minutes ago, davieG said: The prize money for those in Europe is peanuts and negligible and everything for those that don't. Champions League money is significant still. I was talking more about league prize money. Reverse the tiering. But I do get what you mean. Money in football needs a radical rethink to at least lessen the slope of difference if not level the playing field. It would make the game far more interesting. Most teams now just aspire to remain in the Premier League. Few can really dream of the sort of miracle we encountered and that’s a little sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 27 minutes ago, kenny said: In fairness, its what the club has known for a long time and deviated from under Rodgers. The only way to grow is to sell players to increase your turnover. You can increase commercial revenues with the stadium build etc, but its not going to raise £50m a season straight away. I believe the purpose of Seagrave was to increase the revenues from developing players which is hugely hindered if the big 6 can poach 16 year olds before they have reached a reasonable value. I don't have an issue with PSR as such except that the other rules about poaching players etc are not harsh enough to make them work. If Liverpool knew that they would be paying £5m up front for Nyoni with a further £25m in add-ons to reflect his value had they signed him from Leicester as a first teamer at 21 then clubs like ours would be better protected from being asset stripped then penalised for not having enough assets to sell to raise revenue. The system is set up so teams "don't overspend their means", but then breaking out of your so called "means" is a huge task due to how the system is set. Yes it has kept the big teams in check within a certain level. For any team to progress, they have to sell their best assets and hope they can replace to a better level. Youth system issues with poaching is just another segment of the rulings that suits the bigger sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 30 minutes ago, st albans fox said: It’s not peanuts in the champions league ?? I'm talking about the PL prize money for those that get into Europe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 2 hours ago, st albans fox said: A good read This has lead to the nonsense that teams like Spurs have not won anything since 2008. Their fans desperate but their board saying it is more important to finish 4th in League as opposed to winning FA Cup etc. Football losing its soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 37 minutes ago, UniFox21 said: The system is set up so teams "don't overspend their means", but then breaking out of your so called "means" is a huge task due to how the system is set. Yes it has kept the big teams in check within a certain level. For any team to progress, they have to sell their best assets and hope they can replace to a better level. Youth system issues with poaching is just another segment of the rulings that suits the bigger sides. This is a huge problem but then would we object to the current system when we are just as likely to be taking kids from smaller clubs as the rich six are from us ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 3 minutes ago, st albans fox said: This is a huge problem but then would we object to the current system when we are just as likely to be taking kids from smaller clubs as the rich six are from us ?? It's a fundamental issue across the board. We're a relatively big club, so we likely abuse the system for those below us, we're in the wrong just as those above us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxin_Mad Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March They need to include debt in these stupid calculations. Most of the big six are absolutely loaded with debt from dodgy gits like the Glazers yet still allowed to spend billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 39 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said: This has lead to the nonsense that teams like Spurs have not won anything since 2008. Their fans desperate but their board saying it is more important to finish 4th in League as opposed to winning FA Cup etc. Football losing its soul. I posted it a few weeks ago elsewhere but I met a Spurs fan the other week who genuinely said he preferred to finish top 4 rather than win anything. I then reminded him that I was at Wembley in 1999 and they didn’t even deserve to win that one. He wasn’t even ****ing born . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajthefox Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 1 hour ago, filbertway said: "Whatever happened to Leicester isn't bad management...it's just spending more than their revenue and under performing for 2 years" Sounds like it's been written by Rudkin. He's wrong if he thinks we haven't been managed badly at all but i think the wider point being made is that part of what we did was take risks to try and obtain more European football and ergo money. Of course, that doesn't mean we didn't pay a number of players X grand more a week than we should've. But you have to spend more to get into Europe and to stay there, and all it takes is one poor season (by that I don't mean relegation but say lower mid-table) for that to come crashing down. Once you lose that extra income and still have the players on European football wages it gets a lot more difficult. We have been badly run and the system works against smaller clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXSE Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March 2 hours ago, UniFox21 said: A really interesting read actually, the last 3 of the thread in particular to us. The thread summarises really well how poor PSR is, it doesn't punish those who already have big revenue streams. But in order to kick on you're required to spend more in the short term, and try to build that revenue up quickly. Any faltering and you're basically ****ed. This encapsulates things for me: 'It only punishes clubs who fail to realise the sporting advantage they’re being accused of gaining' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terraloon Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March (edited) 13 hours ago, ClaphamFox said: That’s not quite what happened, though. They co-operated with the process - they didn’t accept blame. It seems now that they can appeal the four-point penalty with very little risk of being hit with an increased penalty. In such circumstances, why wouldn’t they appeal? They’ve got practically nothing to lose in doing so. They accepted the charge ( written reasons 1.3) and yes co operated with the process . The only way I can read the case is that they expected , and probably still do , greater mitigation should been applied Its important to note that the hearing will be before a completely different 3 members and when the likes of Sky say or even imply that it’s unlikely that the points deduction will increase that quite simply is folly and even then does that mean the six won’t be increased or the four ? Edited 26 March by Terraloon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March (edited) 16 minutes ago, ajthefox said: He's wrong if he thinks we haven't been managed badly at all but i think the wider point being made is that part of what we did was take risks to try and obtain more European football and ergo money. Of course, that doesn't mean we didn't pay a number of players X grand more a week than we should've. But you have to spend more to get into Europe and to stay there, and all it takes is one poor season (by that I don't mean relegation but say lower mid-table) for that to come crashing down. Once you lose that extra income and still have the players on European football wages it gets a lot more difficult. We have been badly run and the system works against smaller clubs. I'm getting a bit annoyed by this lazy "you need to spend more to compete" We should never be trying to compete in the same way as the clubs with more resources - it's just as stupid as turning up against Man City and expecting you can beat them at their own game. You need to operate intelligently and within your confines. It's not really an excuse that washes with me to be honest. We dwarfed most clubs in Europe in terms of revenue. It's too easy an excuse and really glosses over the fact that horrific decision making was made as well as a complete lack of foresight or contingency planning. - Edited to say this isn't aimed at you by the way . I'm just getting tired of reading people using it as an excuse and letting off incredibly poor management by effectively saying it was the only way they could operate. Edited 26 March by filbertway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ClaphamFox Posted 26 March Author Popular Post Share Posted 26 March 6 minutes ago, filbertway said: I'm getting a bit annoyed by this lazy "you need to spend more to compete" We never be trying to compete in the same way as the clubs with more resources - it's just as stupid as turning up against Man City and expecting you can beat them at their own game. You need to operate intelligently and within your confines. It's not really an excuse that washes with me to be honest. We dwarfed most clubs in Europe in terms of revenue. It's too easy an excuse and really glosses over the fact that horrific decision making was made as well as a complete lack of foresight or contingency planning. It's a statistically proven fact, so I'm not sure why you're describing it as 'lazy'. The argument that Mike Gow is making is that the confines being imposed on us are artificial and anti-competitive. This is also what Nick De Marco believes and has been arguing for years. Of course, disagreeing with the PSR limits does not exempt us from them - we still have to follow the rules. But that does not mean we can't express our strong objection to them. Yes, we've made some poor transfer decisions. But the big clubs make terrible decisions all the time. The difference is, the rules enable those clubs to make mistakes with impunity, whereas for clubs like ourselves one or two transfer mistakes could result in relegation. There's plenty to dislike about that. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March (edited) . Edited 26 March by urban.spaceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageFox73 Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March Excellent article https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leicester-city-failed-harness-ffp-9189091?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Away Move Posted 26 March Share Posted 26 March (edited) 3 hours ago, st albans fox said: A good read Amazing thread. I hope the KC representing us reads it. Edited 26 March by An Away Move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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