Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[ClaphamFox]

4 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

See this is where I differ and I don’t feel the need to make grand calls about fans becoming defiant to the leagues.

 

The hypocrisy of some Leicester fans in particular has been in part hilarious and in part personally maddening because it displays tribalism over all. 
 

This is going to be played out in the courts or as good as court proceedings. With intelligent people of legal status, the leagues don’t get any say in the eventual punishments when it comes to PSR. Rather they seek and an independent board declare their verdict. As seen with the EFL business plan everything is going to be played out neutrally rather than pushing for this grand conspiracy. The PL are correctly within their rights to allege the PSR failure - that’s now not unusual. The EFL transfer embargo isn’t either. As a result of the legal manner it’s all conducted in, a lot will be said of what’s contained with the rules and how they plays out into punishment. 
 

The club has a case on additional charges we haven’t seen before. Yet this won’t change the first PSR allegation which we have seen proven correct and guilty in every example brought by the authorities. We are quite aware of the likely penalty on that too. That’s why my anger stems from the failure to adhere to the rules.  
 

My personal opinion is the counter-suing is a delay tactic to hopefully push this off into when the FFP rules alter (which those tabled we were pushing the extreme when in European competition as well). 
 

All this noise, business plans, and counter claiming wouldn’t happen if the club complied to the rules in the first instance. 
 

Alongaide this, part of me is embarrassed that it’s the fourth occasion I can think of in my lifetime as a Leicester fan that we are in some form of financial rule breaking 

Oh there's no doubt we're trying to delay proceedings. If we played ball and allowed the PL/EFL to impose a points deduction this season, it could mean the difference between promotion or another season in the Championship. That's not a risk we can take.

 

You make a good point about the outcomes of these proceedings being determined by independent panels, not the football authorities themselves. But the onus is still on us to seek the best outcome for ourselves via that process, whether that means challenging the legality of the PL/EFL's actions or making our strongest case for mitigation when the independent panels sit.

 

Yes, it is embarrassing to be in this position again and I hope this finally teaches us to be more responsible in future. In the meantime, if this situation whips up a bit of 'tribalism' among our fans and within the squad, that might actually help us to navigate the next nine games successfully.

[Ric Flair]

58 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Likely going to have to sell big in the summer to prevent themselves from breaching as they have little head room.

 

Add to that Villa, Newcastle, Chelsea and Man City if they can get stuff to stick.

 

That's 7 clubs breaking or struggle to meet FFP in the PL. 

 

PL is in a mess right now!

 

How many club in the pyramid are losing money? 

 

Across Europe clubs especially France and Spain clubs are struggling financial.

 

Football in general is in a mess and FFP isn't fixing the problem.

The term losing money is the central focus here. Football has ate itself, despite financial limitations there's still immense pressure to keep pushing and pushing an inflated market in tra safer fees and wages and its got to at some point go bang.

 

Removing financial limits doesn't solve this either, if anything it makes it worse. I genuinely don't know what the answer is, in some ways it mirrors the current state of global economies where you're left scratching your head on how this mess is unpicked. We're just robbing Peter to pay Paul day in, day out.

[CosbehFox]

34 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Oh there's no doubt we're trying to delay proceedings. If we played ball and allowed the PL/EFL to impose a points deduction this season, it could mean the difference between promotion or another season in the Championship. That's not a risk we can take.

 

You make a good point about the outcomes of these proceedings being determined by independent panels, not the football authorities themselves. But the onus is still on us to seek the best outcome for ourselves via that process, whether that means challenging the legality of the PL/EFL's actions or making our strongest case for mitigation when the independent panels sit.

 

Yes, it is embarrassing to be in this position again and I hope this finally teaches us to be more responsible in future. In the meantime, if this situation whips up a bit of 'tribalism' among our fans and within the squad, that might actually help us to navigate the next nine games successfully.

There's no jurisdiction for that though ie. a points deduction this season. 

 

The Premier League own statement read 

Leicester City were relegated to the EFL Championship prior to the introduction of the Premier League’s new Standard Directions, which prescribe a timeline within which PSR cases should be heard. Therefore, the proceedings will be conducted in accordance with a timetable to be set by the independent Commission, and its final decision will be published on the Premier League’s website. 

 

Such a timetable leads into mid-May. All media sources say next season for a points deduction.  

 

Equally the wording of LCFC's statement on 21st March debates the charge on the grounds it is not a PL club. Therefore by that admittance the club would admit to be subject to a charge if promoted OR if we had stayed up that we'd be subject to the charge. 

 

This is less about delaying this season and more about pushing it out longer towards FFP moving onto a percentage based system (and as suggested by the EFL avoiding stronger punishments for the period of 21 to 24 - makes me fear and back with more certainty that the lower loss allowance of the Championship combined with the failure to improve financial results (to the point we couldn't spare £1m in January), we will fail again on PSR calculations. 

 

If we are promoted the club will have to accept a points deduction that isn't changing for the legal proceedings being unleashed by LCFC or any fan furore. If anything we may risk a double bubble without major outgoings in the summer. A Premier League season with a deduction for 20-23 & 21-24 (on the timetable followed by Everton & Forest). 

 

The reason I mention the repeat financial failures is because it's exactly the sort of reason why the fans won't unite. We are tired of lines such as 'trust us' or the lack of responsibility in failure which is a constant, consistent theme of the last few years communication. 

 

It strikes me screaming murder against the authorities is like a parent disagreeing with their children's grading of F and wanting it bumped up to E. It's still a shit grade. 

Edited 27 March by CosbehFox

[filbertway]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The term losing money is the central focus here. Football has ate itself, despite financial limitations there's still immense pressure to keep pushing and pushing an inflated market in tra safer fees and wages and its got to at some point go bang.

 

Removing financial limits doesn't solve this either, if anything it makes it worse. I genuinely don't know what the answer is, in some ways it mirrors the current state of global economies where you're left scratching your head on how this mess is unpicked. We're just robbing Peter to pay Paul day in, day out.

Nothing will be done for the good of the game unfortunately - unless people without a stake in the clubs are allowed to make the decisions.

 

The premier league clubs want to try and maximise revenue and be more popular than other leagues. So they're willing to spend more to attract better players.

 

In reality - all we really need is spending levels to drop to a sensible level and for decisions to be made for sporting reasons rather than for the financial gains of people in the game.

 

 

[dannythefox]

7 hours ago, Claridge said:

£40 mill for those pair Nach worth nothing because of his wage demands and Wilf maybe £5 million because of his injury record and his useless performances for the last couple of years in the prem. Unless Leicster are bidding i suppose. People used to waffle that people like Caglar etc... were worth millions. madrid couldn't get rid quick enough and he was free

5 mil for Wilf 😴 you get the point, players walking away for free when we could had a decent fee for them is what Leicester cannot be doing.

[PAULCFC]

Am i right in thinking the accounts have to be filed by 31 of this month(Sunday)?With Friday being a bank holiday,Has anyone told the board about this?

[st albans fox]

11 minutes ago, PAULCFC said:

Am i right in thinking the accounts have to be filed by 31 of this month(Sunday)?With Friday being a bank holiday,Has anyone told the board about this?

It will come as a surprise to them 

fortunately the auditors should be on top of it …..

 

imagine we end up in the gazette for compulsory s /off !

Edited 27 March by st albans fox

[LcFc_Smiv]

11 minutes ago, PAULCFC said:

Am i right in thinking the accounts have to be filed by 31 of this month(Sunday)?With Friday being a bank holiday,Has anyone told the board about this?

Yes, they said that's a next week problem 

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

The term losing money is the central focus here. Football has ate itself, despite financial limitations there's still immense pressure to keep pushing and pushing an inflated market in tra safer fees and wages and its got to at some point go bang.

 

Removing financial limits doesn't solve this either, if anything it makes it worse. I genuinely don't know what the answer is, in some ways it mirrors the current state of global economies where you're left scratching your head on how this mess is unpicked. We're just robbing Peter to pay Paul day in, day out.

In every way it mirrors global economies. The need for perpetual growth, for the already wealthy to get their cut of the gold, and for that gold to keep increasing in value is the foundation of our economic model. Just existing in a good state isn't enough. 

 

What gets me is how both sport (well boxing and football) and big business have got to the same point. We basically ran out of the money that can provide continuous and aggressive growth, so we borrow from the magic money tree.  Go back a few years we were happy to take Russian and US money to prop up commercial property investments in the city (and a few football clubs too), and this has now migrated over to the richest from the middle east (and the few crazy rich from the US). 

 

To succeed now, we have to cosy up to some of the most morally bankrupt and richest regimes on the planet. The lines between business and state are completely blurred (and i include KP in that due to their monopoly).  But for both sport and the commercial world, is there anywhere else left to exploit? Have we finally hit the richest people we can reach? Whats in it for the richest to buy everything up as the whole thing can't continuously grow? This is where franchise models come in to play im afraid.

 

To your point, football has eaten itself (as, has arguably western economics). In the business world, if there is noone willing to buy your assets then you implode in on yourself, like we have seen many business do over the years. The whole sport is surviving on band aids at the moment, but when even 2nd and 3rd tier clubs can barely afford to pay their players inflated wages, there is only one end game for them im afraid. 

 

One way or another my son won't be watching Leicester City as they are today in 20 years. He'll probably be watching some sort of East Midlands franchise battling out a few short tournaments a year whilst the big few clubs battle out their super leagues. 

[lcfc278]

With most clubs posting their accounts are we likely to see any other clubs come under the same scrutiny we have recently?

 

Looking purely at transfers I thought I'd look at Southampton using transfermarkt - tbh this season they've done pretty well with a +€165m (€187m income and only spending €22m)

 

However for the previous few years it's not been great, with totals of;

 

19/20: -€34m

20/21: -€11m

21/22: -€3m

22/23 -€146m

 

In particular with last seasons net loss which was massive, surely their last 3 year period has got to be close too no? They can't have that much more income than us can they?

[lcfc278]

Did the same for Leeds and they are;

 

19/20: +€30m

20/21: -€127m

21/22: -€59m

22/23 -€43m

 

For comparison Leicester's are;

 

19/20: -€16m

20/21: -€6m

21/22: -€63m

22/23 +€32m

 

I don't get it. Is it purely wages that have messed us up?

[st albans fox]

6 minutes ago, lcfc278 said:

Did the same for Leeds and they are;

 

19/20: +€30m

20/21: -€127m

21/22: -€59m

22/23 -€43m

 

For comparison Leicester's are;

 

19/20: -€16m

20/21: -€6m

21/22: -€63m

22/23 +€32m

 

I don't get it. Is it purely wages that have messed us up?

A combo of wages and players of value leaving for nowt 

[Corky]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The term losing money is the central focus here. Football has ate itself, despite financial limitations there's still immense pressure to keep pushing and pushing an inflated market in tra safer fees and wages and its got to at some point go bang.

 

Removing financial limits doesn't solve this either, if anything it makes it worse. I genuinely don't know what the answer is, in some ways it mirrors the current state of global economies where you're left scratching your head on how this mess is unpicked. We're just robbing Peter to pay Paul day in, day out.

For a "competitive" league you need one of two of the top 6 to bugger up and allow some of the rest a chance. The new reported regulations don't appear to be much better and the likes of Brighton, like ourselves previously, need Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea to fail. If they don't it will be become closed.

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, Corky said:

For a "competitive" league you need one of two of the top 6 to bugger up and allow some of the rest a chance. The new reported regulations don't appear to be 

Chelsea and Man U are kindly obliging right now.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, dannythefox said:

5 mil for Wilf 😴 you get the point, players walking away for free when we could had a decent fee for them is what Leicester cannot be doing.

If they don't want to go and merely want to see out their contracts, for whatever reason, you can't sell them. It's not just Leicester players that are doing it either. 

[The Bear]

23 minutes ago, lcfc278 said:

Did the same for Leeds and they are;

 

19/20: +€30m

20/21: -€127m

21/22: -€59m

22/23 -€43m

 

For comparison Leicester's are;

 

19/20: -€16m

20/21: -€6m

21/22: -€63m

22/23 +€32m

 

I don't get it. Is it purely wages that have messed us up?

Transfer fees don't really relate to the actual accounts. Best off Googling the actual accounts posted by the club's websites. Try "Leeds Utd accounts 20/21" etc.

Edited 27 March by The Bear

[ClaphamFox]

1 hour ago, PAULCFC said:

Am i right in thinking the accounts have to be filed by 31 of this month(Sunday)?With Friday being a bank holiday,Has anyone told the board about this?

What time is Enzo’s press conference tomorrow? If our accounts are being made available tomorrow (which would make sense given the long bank holiday weekend), presumably the club would prefer them to be published after Enzo faces the media or he’ll spend the whole time taking questions about that, which he won’t enjoy… 

[Chelmofox]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

What time is Enzo’s press conference tomorrow? If our accounts are being made available tomorrow (which would make sense given the long bank holiday weekend), presumably the club would prefer them to be published after Enzo faces the media or he’ll spend the whole time taking questions about that, which he won’t enjoy… 

He's going to get that anyway.

[PAULCFC]

Not sure about the presser.....i just put the Holiday out there as a joke really!But with our club nothing would supprise me!

[HybridFox]

All this has shown is how to play the system. Forest knew what they were doing but ultimately it kept them in the league and taken a hit (which may even win on appeal anyway) when there are 3 of the worst promoted sides ever

Edited 27 March by HybridFox

[volpeazzurro]

13 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

He's going to get that anyway.

His answer then is quite simple. Something along the lines of your wasting your time asking me, I can't give you the answers regarding the clubs finances try asking the right people, ask me questions about my players or the forthcoming match, that's all I'm here to talk about. 

 

[The_77]

4 hours ago, Ian S said:

As a matter of interest, how many clubs have been charged and subsequently found innocent so far.?

That Forest are risking an increased sanction by appealing their punishment makes me think they are confident they will get their points deduction reduced further or eliminated. 

[STEVIE B]

1 hour ago, LcFc_Smiv said:

Yes, they said that's a next weak problem 

Corrected that for you 

[Sunbury Fox]

Bournemouth must surely be at risk of failing PSR. Their stadium is Toy Town, they've made a shed load of expensive signings and yet have sold nobody of note. I can only think they have some clever financial arrangement in place,  involving Lorient, the Ligue 1 club they own, otherwise they must have huge losses on their accounts. 

Edited 27 March by Sunbury Fox

[ClaphamFox]

12 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Bournemouth must surely be at risk of failing PSR. Their stadium is Toy Town, they've made a shed load of expensive signings and yet have sold nobody of note. I can only think they have some clever financial arrangement in place,  involving Lorient, the Ligue 1 club they own, otherwise they must have huge losses on their accounts. 

They just posted a profit of £44.5m for 2022/23:

 

https://www.afcb.co.uk/news/club-news/club-release-annual-accounts-for-2023/#:~:text=The club recorded an operating,full can be read here.