Leicester City and PSR – Everything you need to know on EFL dispute, player sales, and what next

[Stadt]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

At the last time of looking nearly every PL club is loss making but the rule changes coming force all clubs to turn a profit as they are only able to spend 85% dropping down to 70% of revenue on wages and transfers.

 

Suddenly club ownership becomes a little more attractive (if it wasn't already - it's a billionaires play thing)

 

There's no proof that we'd not interest a host of other billionaires, some might see what we've already achieved and think they can tap in to that whilst avoiding the mistakes and recent failures. Either way it's massively naive to think that there's no future for this club without our owners and an largely untouched board.

 

It's also extremely scary that in the eyes of some they can do whatever they want without scrutiny no matter how badly we faltered. A complete mockery of the core aspect of being custodians of our football club - the words they have referenced before as well.

We’re attractive as a club, no doubt especially if any investors viewed our current lack of competence at the top as an opportunity.
 

- Immutably famous as a club as a result of 2016

-Planning for stadium expansion granted with c. 20k members iirc on top of sustained 30k+ averages

-Large catchment area and one club county 

-Arguably the best training facilities in the world 

-Relatively successful academy 

- Between 1-2 hours from London

[Foxin_Mad]

12 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Those two sentences are related.
 

Ie. Top’s decisions = a loss making football club 

 

People won’t be quite aware but we are increasingly becoming a running joke in football circles by others. A tale in mismanagement 

How many football clubs are both profitable and successful?

 

Leicester City can be profitable but are likely to be a mediocre club like Palace at best, a Championship yo yo club to Championship mid table at worst.

 

I think for success you got to gamble a bit,  we did we lost.

 

What football circles? There are many many worse owners out there! Ask Utd, Old Trafford collapsing,  Sheffield Wed, Sheffield Utd, Reading etc. 

 

We have seen what can happen to clubs our size that mean little to anyone except the fans, Coventry, Derby etc. Yes they will eventually rise back, but it's a fine line.

 

Are the owners perfect, absolutely not. There's stuff the pisses me off, but then american owners would piss me off too. I hate the Thai king being held on the pitch and 800 Thai influencers etc but football is largely full of this shit, like the YouTube tosser with Garnacho. 

 

A lot of fans would love to have had the 10 years we have had. So for me they need a bit of time to try and fix it. I'm not a fan of Rudkin and the club needs to think wiser commercially, the service on basic things sucks but we are not totally alone on that one! 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

5 minutes ago, turlo said:

the stadium & training ground both appear on the clubs balance sheets as tangible assets with a note that there is a hire purchase agreement in place between the club & KP for the stadium - does that mean the club owns them?

 

pages 48 & 49

 

https://resources.lcfc.com/leicesterfc/document/2024/04/02/3ce38931-9e1f-4734-8202-e5ef7b9507b0/LCFC-FY23-accounts.pdf

Curious to know what the 50m of land, buildings and other stuff is. Seems a lot for the football club to own.

[Heskey2011]

12 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Those two sentences are related.
 

Ie. Top’s decisions = a loss making football club 

 

People won’t be quite aware but we are increasingly becoming a running joke in football circles by others. A tale in mismanagement 

This is nonsense,

People aren't aware because you just made it up, or you've been reading way too much Sun and are adding 2 + 2 and reaching 47.

[Babylon]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

At the last time of looking nearly every PL club is loss making but the rule changes coming force all clubs to turn a profit as they are only able to spend 85% dropping down to 70% of revenue on wages and transfers.

 

Suddenly club ownership becomes a little more attractive (if it wasn't already - it's a billionaires play thing)

 

There's no proof that we'd not interest a host of other billionaires, some might see what we've already achieved and think they can tap in to that whilst avoiding the mistakes and recent failures. Either way it's massively naive to think that there's no future for this club without our owners and an largely untouched board.

 

It's also extremely scary that in the eyes of some they can do whatever they want without scrutiny no matter how badly we faltered. A complete mockery of the core aspect of being custodians of our football club - the words they have referenced before as well.

Ric, look around the leagues. The amount of billionaires not actually in it for a profit, willing to risk their own cash can probably be counted on one hand. Whilst owners who are a total piece of shit and totally in it to attempt to reap a profit are ten a penny.  Most burden the clubs with the debt they used to purchase it in the first place. 

 

Everyone should come under scrutiny, but the chances are a change at the top in terms of owner (unless we are very lucky and happen to find a state wanting to buy us, or unlucky depending on your view, ) is far more likely to lead to something worse, than better. 

 

That doesn't mean they should be exempt from scrutiny, far from it. But it shouldn't even be on the table, IMO unless something utterly unforgivable happened or a run of poor decision-making continued indefinitely. Nobody gets everything right. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

7 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Ric, look around the leagues. The amount of billionaires not actually in it for a profit, willing to risk their own cash can probably be counted on one hand. Whilst owners who are a total piece of shit and totally in it to attempt to reap a profit are ten a penny.  Most burden the clubs with the debt they used to purchase it in the first place. 

 

Everyone should come under scrutiny, but the chances are a change at the top in terms of owner (unless we are very lucky and happen to find a state wanting to buy us, or unlucky depending on your view, ) is far more likely to lead to something worse, than better. 

 

That doesn't mean they should be exempt from scrutiny, far from it. But it shouldn't even be on the table, IMO unless something utterly unforgivable happened or a run of poor decision-making continued indefinitely. Nobody gets everything right. 

 

 

 

 

Man city, Newcastle, villa, Bournemouth, forests owners - how many fingers you got? Thats just the start.

 

That's before you get into the debate around whether you need an owner who wants to waste money. The only tangible improvement off the pitch king power can claim to is a giant training ground which is of limited value from a revenue generation point.

 

The point is there are better run clubs out there, and lots of them.

Edited 5 June by Chocolate Teapot

[Heskey2011]

19 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

We are currently a laughing stock in football with no clear strategy. The last ten years have been brilliant (ignoring the last two) but we're currently completing rudderless and are at risk of hitting oblivion. It's not as binary as you make out - you're assuming the same person has been in charge for the last ten years. That's not the case.

Rudderless...reeeyyyt...just got promoted, completed amazing training ground, stadium expansion, kept squad together. You've got to be doing some squinting to see oblivion on the horizon.

Whoever you're listening to who laughing at us, I'd stop listening to them mate. 

Proper chocolate tea pot you.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Interestingly on the price of football podcast there was a question in relation to return on investment and we finished 20th …..bottom of the league below both Forest and Everton who have had points deductions and deemed financial basket cases, make no mistake, the concerns the likes of @CosbehFox @Chocolate Teapot and @st albans fox raise around the current state of the club and how it’s being managed or mis managed clearly has some foundation. 

[Happy Fox]

The best thing Top can do is sell the club, we won’t progress any further off the pitch or on it now with KP. Wasn’t there rumors that Top wanted to sell?

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

19 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Interestingly on the price of football podcast there was a question in relation to return on investment and we finished 20th …..bottom of the league below both Forest and Everton who have had points deductions and deemed financial basket cases, make no mistake, the concerns the likes of @CosbehFox @Chocolate Teapot and @st albans fox raise around the current state of the club and how it’s being managed or mis managed clearly has some foundation. 

I'd argue they've got too much money to waste.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Heskey2011 said:

Rudderless...reeeyyyt...just got promoted, completed amazing training ground, stadium expansion, kept squad together. You've got to be doing some squinting to see oblivion on the horizon.

Whoever you're listening to who laughing at us, I'd stop listening to them mate. 

Proper chocolate tea pot you.

Football moves quick. 
 

Training ground is old news.

 

Promotion expected by nearly everyone in the game.

 

Stadium expansion has been there for five years with no realisation. Construction costs near 35% increase in that period 

Kept squad together - what squad? Last summer there was four major departures. Every indication someone has to be sold by 30th June. Clubs were circling in January for a bargain deal 

 

That’s before we mention the forthcoming points deduction. 

Edited 5 June by CosbehFox

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Heskey2011 said:

This is nonsense,

People aren't aware because you just made it up, or you've been reading way too much Sun and are adding 2 + 2 and reaching 47.

Your belief if you want to choose what echo chamber you want to sit in. 

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

How many football clubs are both profitable and successful?

Not many and that wasn’t my point. 
 

However there are lots of clubs which are our size what have gone through the success we have and they have made very, very tidy profits. 
 

Top’s decision making has exacerbated our financial losses which in turn has led to a points deduction. 
 

His insistence on keeping Rudkin - so one of those fine examples. A man whom certain clubs and agents (eg potential signings) won’t deal with him or give the time of day. 

Edited 5 June by CosbehFox

[funkyrobot]

2 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Interestingly on the price of football podcast there was a question in relation to return on investment and we finished 20th …..bottom of the league below both Forest and Everton who have had points deductions and deemed financial basket cases, make no mistake, the concerns the likes of @CosbehFox @Chocolate Teapot and @st albans fox raise around the current state of the club and how it’s being managed or mis managed clearly has some foundation. 

Relegation would’ve been a factor in that rating surely? 

[Terraloon]

3 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Curious to know what the 50m of land, buildings and other stuff is. Seems a lot for the football club to own.

The Club owns them but the club is owned by KPI.In effect it’s not really relevant.The bit that is interesting is the purchase was via an HP agreement that is flexible but I doubt that any cash actually changes  hands just adds to the overall debt

 

The land ownership seems excessive but seems to have been independently valued. 

 

[dmayne7]

3 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

How many football clubs are both profitable and successful?

 

Leicester City can be profitable but are likely to be a mediocre club like Palace at best, a Championship yo yo club to Championship mid table at worst.

 

I think for success you got to gamble a bit,  we did we lost.

 

What football circles? There are many many worse owners out there! Ask Utd, Old Trafford collapsing,  Sheffield Wed, Sheffield Utd, Reading etc. 

 

We have seen what can happen to clubs our size that mean little to anyone except the fans, Coventry, Derby etc. Yes they will eventually rise back, but it's a fine line.

 

Are the owners perfect, absolutely not. There's stuff the pisses me off, but then american owners would piss me off too. I hate the Thai king being held on the pitch and 800 Thai influencers etc but football is largely full of this shit, like the YouTube tosser with Garnacho. 

 

A lot of fans would love to have had the 10 years we have had. So for me they need a bit of time to try and fix it. I'm not a fan of Rudkin and the club needs to think wiser commercially, the service on basic things sucks but we are not totally alone on that one! 

A good post as you're right that they have done enough good to give them the chance to turn it around. I think it was just the spectacular nature of the relegation and slow dismantling of everything good we had done that was so infuriating. The ownership massively culpable for that and it was utterly bizarre to be breaking those things apart.

 

The unforgivable are basically what you have highlighted at the end:

 

- Rudkin was probably fairly logical at first for a bit of inside club knowledge and continuity but how he survived after the Adrian Silva debacle and several other things since is disgraceful. Callous that they binned off Sadler and Stowell (who give you that continuity with minimal interference, especially important in situations like now, i.e. no manager) but Rudkin survived. Others have mentioned it but KP have enough other interests that they could easily move him on to something else if they really don't want to get rid of him.

 

- The commerciality has been pathetic. Felt it at the time but looking back it was absolutely shocking how little we capitalised on the title win. Not saying we'd have been able to get Man United levels of sponsorship but they could have got short term sponsorship, at a premium, during the run in and then surely much bigger deals the next year. I get wanting the KP brand exposure but there were so many avenues to increase revenue. The fact we were so low on the sponsorship for many years, against similar sized clubs (and probably lesser given recent history) was an abject failure. That held us back so much. On top of that, the decision to prioritise the training ground over the stadium was also incredibly short sighted. The stadium development equals more revenue, does more to raise the profile of the club etc. And this is without even mentioning the contracts, fees paid for squad players, letting players go free etc.

 

The fact we are behind a club like Palace (whom we're definitely much bigger than) shows how badly they have messed up. Sadly, we've seen little sign of them actually willing take accountability and give us an action plan of how things are going to be sustainable going forward.

[st albans fox]

Borson said this morning that if we were positively engaging with the PL since we were charged then it’s feasible our sanction could be 4 points.  He said we could potentially approach them and negotiate this penalty without a hearing needed.  
 

[Terraloon]

42 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Borson said this morning that if we were positively engaging with the PL since we were charged then it’s feasible our sanction could be 4 points.  He said we could potentially approach them and negotiate this penalty without a hearing needed.  
 

It is called a sanctions agreement and yes one could be put in place ( but I would imagine unlikely) any sanctions agreement agreed between the club and the PL  still has to be confirmed by what is in effect an IC. 

[PaulW]

7 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Not many and that wasn’t my point. 
 

However there are lots of clubs which are our size what have gone through the success we have and they have made very, very tidy profits. 
 

Top’s decision making has exacerbated our financial losses which in turn has led to a points deduction. 
 

His insistence on keeping Rudkin - so one of those fine examples. A man whom certain clubs and agents (eg potential signings) won’t deal with him or give the time of day. 

Errr...there's only one other club our size that has achieved the success that we have in the lifetime of the Prem.  Also , whilst I'm no admirer of Rudkin, who are the "certain clubs" that won't deal with him?

Edited 5 June by PaulW

[kenny]

58 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Borson said this morning that if we were positively engaging with the PL since we were charged then it’s feasible our sanction could be 4 points.  He said we could potentially approach them and negotiate this penalty without a hearing needed.  
 

Probably with an NDA to stop us slating the premier league, other clubs and the mess of a process.

[Ric Flair]

24 minutes ago, PaulW said:

Errr...there's only one other club our size that has achieved the success that we have in the lifetime of the Prem.  Also , whilst I'm no admirer of Rudkin, who are the "certain clubs" that won't deal with him?

Let's have it right. We did not win the league or win the FA Cup by being ambitious to the point our wages were more than our total revenue. We stopped doing the things that got us to where we'd gotten to and it's quickly unravelled. 

 

It makes my skin crawl that people are quick to point to our success as a way of defending our current plight which shows no signs of significant change with the same incumbents in charge. 

 

Anyone part of our successful periods on and off the field, massive well done.

 

Anyone part of our diabolical decline and the financial situation we are in. Utterly disgraceful and borderline unforgivable there's been little change. 

 

The former doesn't excuse the latter, if anything it makes it even harder to stomach than if we and them had always been the pits.

[PaulW]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Let's have it right. We did not win the league or win the FA Cup by being ambitious to the point our wages were more than our total revenue. We stopped doing the things that got us to where we'd gotten to and it's quickly unravelled. 

 

It makes my skin crawl that people are quick to point to our success as a way of defending our current plight which shows no signs of significant change with the same incumbents in charge. 

 

Anyone part of our successful periods on and off the field, massive well done.

 

Anyone part of our diabolical decline and the financial situation we are in. Utterly disgraceful and unforgivable there's been little change. 

 

The former doesn't excuse the latter, if anything it makes it even harder to stomach than if we and them had always been the pits.

I was simply challenging the remark that lots of clubs of our size have gone through the success that we have.  There isn't.  Also...which are the "certain clubs" that won't deal with Rudkin?  If the poster is quoting facts there is no harm in naming them, rather than muttering vague complaints.

[Death by Football]

23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Let's have it right. We did not win the league or win the FA Cup by being ambitious to the point our wages were more than our total revenue. We stopped doing the things that got us to where we'd gotten to and it's quickly unravelled. 

 

It makes my skin crawl that people are quick to point to our success as a way of defending our current plight which shows no signs of significant change with the same incumbents in charge. 

 

Anyone part of our successful periods on and off the field, massive well done.

 

Anyone part of our diabolical decline and the financial situation we are in. Utterly disgraceful and borderline unforgivable there's been little change. 

 

The former doesn't excuse the latter, if anything it makes it even harder to stomach than if we and them had always been the pits.

Agree with this to a point. We were doing good things then backed the wrong horse in Rodgers and it properly bit us on the arse. We moved away from our model of selling players and bringing new ones through and that was the beginning of the slippery slope we’re trying to scramble back up. I’m Rudkin out and then some but I’m willing to give the Chairman a little bit more leeway. Although I don’t see him learning from mistakes yet. In fairness while I don’t want him to leave, selling KDH for good money would actually be a return to the model that worked for us. 

[Viva]

37 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Let's have it right. We did not win the league or win the FA Cup by being ambitious to the point our wages were more than our total revenue. We stopped doing the things that got us to where we'd gotten to and it's quickly unravelled. 

 

It makes my skin crawl that people are quick to point to our success as a way of defending our current plight which shows no signs of significant change with the same incumbents in charge. 

 

Anyone part of our successful periods on and off the field, massive well done.

 

Anyone part of our diabolical decline and the financial situation we are in. Utterly disgraceful and borderline unforgivable there's been little change. 

 

The former doesn't excuse the latter, if anything it makes it even harder to stomach than if we and them had always been the pits.

It certainly doesn't make it harder to stomach. We wouldn't have had an FA Cup win and a couple of good shots at the top 4 if we had stuck to our original formula. Vardy would have left in 2016 for starters as we certainly couldn't have offered him the contract we did. 

[Ric Flair]

14 minutes ago, Viva said:

It certainly doesn't make it harder to stomach. We wouldn't have had an FA Cup win and a couple of good shots at the top 4 if we had stuck to our original formula. Vardy would have left in 2016 for starters as we certainly couldn't have offered him the contract we did. 

I think you've misunderstood what our original formula was. It was being progressive enough to know when to cash in on players that we've flipped for a profit or who were at risk of running their contract down. 

 

We never sold more than one key asset a summer but neither did we sell other players regularly enough and slowly but surely if you either stop doing that and/or increase the wage bill at an unsustainable then it goes bang. We are paying the price for that for years to come.

 

That was not the nature of the beast, winning the FA Cup and bottling top 4 twice was not because we let things get out of control. There's a misplaced notion that we should be careful what we wish for and the fall out of all this is the price we had to pay for winning things. Bollocks.