Accounts 22/23

[Clever Fox]

15 hours ago, reynard said:

 

So basically in the the full financial report in spring 2023 the directors stated they were confident we would comply with the premier league's sustainability and profitability requirements.

Considering the figures just released I'm not sure how they can possibly have been confident of this.

 

 

 

 

 

Because they expected to move a lot of the fringe players out, Which didn't happen for various reasons.

[MonkeyTennis?]

1 minute ago, BenTheFox said:

Do you know what the worst part of all of this is? If they had come out in the summer of 2021 and made it clear that finances are tight and that we'd have to cut our cloth accordingly with a big player or two and that we need to run a tight ship until we've exapnded the stadium and increased revenue by other means, I'm sure most of us would have accepted it and appreciated the transparency and would have altered our expectations accordingly. Most of us would take finishing say 13th in the premier league instead of 5th-8th if it meant that the club was on a stable footing. I'm not saying any of this with the benefit of hindsight, I genuinely would have respected it. Instead we ended up with a £90 million net spend and an even more inflated wage bill when we had sellable assets with the likes of Tielemans, Ndidi, Fofana, Maddison, Barnes and Soyuncu. 

I don't want to justify the club's actions, but I would say: It might not have been widely accepted as a reasonable approach because in 2021, I don't think anyone thought that the PL had any intention of enforcing its own FFP rules beyond the lightest of wrist slaps. That's where the financial complacency seems to have come from - until this year, the PL has basically avoided punishing anyone for anything, so the club management were just assuming it would probably be alright.  

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

5 minutes ago, ozvaldo said:

I would love to hear Rudkin / Whelan / whoever come out and justify these costs.  And i'm not having that these fall into the realms of 'our push for European success' - these deals fundamentally go against how we've done business and been successful in recent years.  To literally pay Daka more than x10 what he was previously on is a ****ing disgrace.  Man's got a boot like a hexagon.  

Exactly. As someone said earlier, why not go in with £30k - still a sizeable increase in salary. Combination of rank stupidity and agents flexing their muscles I guess. It was said wasn’t it in football circles that we paid well.

 

It sort of makes me think of people taking vulnerable people’s money or conning them. Rudkin is that vulnerable person.

[BenTheFox]

1 minute ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

I don't want to justify the club's actions, but I would say: It might not have been widely accepted as a reasonable approach because in 2021, I don't think anyone thought that the PL had any intention of enforcing its own FFP rules beyond the lightest of wrist slaps. That's where the financial complacency seems to have come from - until this year, the PL has basically avoided punishing anyone for anything, so the club management were just assuming it would probably be alright.  

I think there's some truth in this. However, the Super League attempt had just happened, which resulted in a wide range of calls for an independent regulator. It wasn't completely unthinkable that the Premier League would start trying to show that they can regulate themselves or if they would even be an independent regulator. 

[TamworthFoxes]

So Daka was on 79k a week and people are surprised we couldn't shift him!!! Ha ha.

Another one who has no interest in being here but will never get near the wage hes on with us so will be with us until the very last day of his contact.

Another in a long line.

[Clever Fox]

2 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

So Daka was on 79k a week and people are surprised we couldn't shift him!!! Ha ha.

Another one who has no interest in being here but will never get near the wage hes on with us so will be with us until the very last day of his contact.

Another in a long line.

 

2 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

So Daka was on 79k a week and people are surprised we couldn't shift him!!! Ha ha.

Another one who has no interest in being here but will never get near the wage hes on with us so will be with us until the very last day of his contact.

Another in a long line.

This coupled with poor signings is the root of the problem.

[whetstonefox]

I just hope if we are ever in a position to challenge the top end of the premier league again that performance bonuses and a lower

basic keep things in check. May mean we lose out on some players but we’d avoid collecting so much unsaleable dross. Actually curious what sort of bonus set up we have or is that not a thing in top flight football anymore? 

[MonkeyTennis?]

2 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I think there's some truth in this. However, the Super League attempt had just happened, which resulted in a wide range of calls for an independent regulator. It wasn't completely unthinkable that the Premier League would start trying to show that they can regulate themselves or if they would even be an independent regulator. 

Oh, I still think its obscene mismanagement and shows an idiotic level of casual disregard for the rules - but, the PL has allowed clubs to work like this for years. The rules (on and off the pitch) are opaque and irregularly enforced. 

 

(If anything, I think the current fixation with enforcing FFP is a kind-of sideshow designed to draw attention away from the grave issues of corruption around agents fees/transfers, failure of the fit and proper ownership tests, sportswashing, front company sponsorship, gambling endorsement, etc, that make the PL look an awful lot like its enabling organised crime on a global level, but that's another story.)

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

He's been missing for the last 2 months (before turning up Saturday) ! No where near POTY. Madness.

He's one of the three nominees for it so I'd suggest he's probably not a million miles away

[Clever Fox]

Can anyone explain why Revenue was down 17% which equates close to 40 million.

[egg_fried_rice]

5 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Can anyone explain why Revenue was down 17% which equates close to 40 million.

£3m increase in prize money per place in the league standings - 10 places lower than previous season - that's 30m right there for a start.

[smudgerfox]

Just now, egg_fried_rice said:

£3m increase in prize money per place in the league standings - 10 places lower than previous season - that's 30m right there for a start.

I think it's no European football - apparently Europa/Conference season was worth £30- odd million

[egg_fried_rice]

3 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

I think it's no European football - apparently Europa/Conference season was worth £30- odd million

It's much lower than that - ~£3m for qualification for Europa and ~£2.5m for Conference League. Then additional, lesser amounts as you progress (and we didn't progress very far). Still a dent in revenue, just not as significant as league placing.

[Dames]

5 hours ago, Ricey said:

My only hope with that is that he's on reduced terms, knowing that if he had left on a free then there was no way he'd get a contract anywhere near like the one he had previously.

Hes definitely on the same terms.

[los dedos]

Not sure how true it is but I heard that during the Peter Taylor era.  Junior Lewis's agent asked for £2200 per week and the club thought he wanted 22k and agreed to it .

Luckily no one at the club would be that stupid now . 

[howie]

49 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

It's much lower than that - ~£3m for qualification for Europa and ~£2.5m for Conference League. Then additional, lesser amounts as you progress (and we didn't progress very far). Still a dent in revenue, just not as significant as league placing.

Got to the semifinals in the last European campaign.

[egg_fried_rice]

7 minutes ago, howie said:

Got to the semifinals in the last European campaign.

Got my years mixed up!

 

Just checked wiki for a more accurate answer - says bonus knockout round prize money for Conference League is:

Knockout round play-offs: €300,000

Round of 16: €600,000
Quarter-final: €1,000,000
Semi-final: €2,000,000

Plus

Europa League qualification: €3,630,000

2 group stage wins: 2 x €630,000

2 group stage draws: 2 x €210,000

 

I make that €9,210,000, so about £8m. Add that to the ~£30m for prem prize money and that's the decrease in revenue about covered.

[Lambert09]

what’s truly wild, is that our wage bill is 200m a year.. but the squad isn’t worth 200m if we sold everyone. That’s like negative equity on a house 

[JimmyC74]

3 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

what’s truly wild, is that our wage bill is 200m a year.. but the squad isn’t worth 200m if we sold everyone. That’s like negative equity on a house 

I think I read it was circa 410m in the year we finished 8th. Obviously we lost Fofana but the drop off is significant and as you say,compared against wages, is staggering 

[kenny]

20 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

Got my years mixed up!

 

Just checked wiki for a more accurate answer - says bonus knockout round prize money for Conference League is:

Knockout round play-offs: €300,000

Round of 16: €600,000
Quarter-final: €1,000,000
Semi-final: €2,000,000

Plus

Europa League qualification: €3,630,000

2 group stage wins: 2 x €630,000

2 group stage draws: 2 x €210,000

 

I make that €9,210,000, so about £8m. Add that to the ~£30m for prem prize money and that's the decrease in revenue about covered.

Plus the tv rights for each round and less any appearances bonuses the players get.

[Chelmofox]

5 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

what’s truly wild, is that our wage bill is 200m a year.. but the squad isn’t worth 200m if we sold everyone. That’s like negative equity on a house 

Isn't one of the issues with football anyway that wages aren't linked to player value at all. Wages are linked to what is agreed in the contract signed between you and the player over the set period. So someone like Vardy has next to no resale value because of his age, but could easily take 100k a week salary. Chelsea sign Fofana for 70 mil and has barely played due to 2 serious injuries. Potentially his value has now plummeted but his wage will remain the same.

 

Contracts, Salaries and fees are just weird in football

[James_lcfc]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

He's been missing for the last 2 months (before turning up Saturday) ! No where near POTY. Madness.

Nowhere near? There's only 4 players in the whole league with more G/A than him for a start?

 

I'm not sure I've seen anyone better in all the games I've seen this year.

[Clever Fox]

1 hour ago, los dedos said:

Not sure how true it is but I heard that during the Peter Taylor era.  Junior Lewis's agent asked for £2200 per week and the club thought he wanted 22k and agreed to it .

Luckily no one at the club would be that stupid now . 

It sounds a bit like the Chapman to Leeds transfer years ago when Chapman told his agent he was to try and get him 5k a week. When they met with Ridsdale his opening offer was 80k.

They both could'nt sign the Contract quickly enough.

[westernpark]

Just now, Clever Fox said:

It sounds a bit like the Chapman to Leeds transfer years ago when Chapman told his agent he was to try and get him 5k a week. When they met with Ridsdale his opening offer was 80k.

They both could'nt sign the Contract quickly enough.

Think that was Seth Johnson but definitely feels like that’s how we negotiate.

[eblair]

Cannot believe no one has worked out how stupid our wage structure still must be. We couldn’t get anyone to pay Ward’s salary instead of us. I know he’s shite but surely this must mean this clown is still being paid at least 30k a weeek