Premier league clubs to vote on scrapping VAR

[boots60]

One of the reasons most of us started watching football is because it is a simple game that flows. That is no longer the scenario.

Players don't want it

Managers don't want it

Fans don't want it.

Get rid, get back to human error.

[dmayne7]

5 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

This is the whole point of Var the mistakes are catastrophic to some clubs like Forest who could be relegated over it or Wolves denied a draw recently over a poor decision.

The likes of Corner kicks it's easy to see who the ball last touched.

I don't like the idea of one man making the call either.

A panel making a call on what they see first time in a playback.

 That takes no more than 60 seconds.

60 seconds for a corner?! Or do you just mean in general. In which case I agree. Slow mo's should be banned and replaying the incident over and over should be too, since it's clearly not an error.

 

As for a panel, that gets more complicated as then you need consensus surely, rather a majority rules situation. Makes sense of face value but no chance it works smoothly in football.

[SemperEadem]

4 hours ago, Saxondale said:

I genuinely don't know what's for the best.

 

As far as the fans are concerned, it'll make no difference regarding perceived standards of refereeing -  people will whinge just as much without it.

Not true, I don’t mind the wrong decision or a mistake from the ref as its instant.

[iancognito]

Just make it better. It's fine in most leagues, fine in Europe but two things screw it up here

 

1. Stop drawing those fxxxxxg lines. If it's that tight it's not clear and obvious, allow the goal FFS.

2. Stop looking at everything in minute detail, looking at ways to disallow something.

 

If you can't do any of those things change it to a manager review option. But honestly the LAST thing we need is for refs to go back to getting 1 in 5 decisions wrong which was the case pre-VAR. Our refs are crap. Full stop.

[SemperEadem]

The idea that it is fine in Europe ain't true.

It is awful in German football too. 

[iancognito]

Just now, SemperEadem said:

Not true, I don’t mind the wrong decision or a mistake from the ref as its instant.

Not true. You've obviously forgotten what it was like pre-VAR. Some genuine howlers that cost clubs millions. And it hasn't gotten better as the Championship proved. They need help, they're terrible at their jobs and fans DO mind wrong decisions. We need to do it like they do on the continent. Do it better, not do it without help.

[iancognito]

2 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

The idea that it is fine in Europe ain't true.

It is awful in German football too. 

It's never going to be perfect because of subjective calls and human error but it is better over there. They don't go looking for issues like our officials do.

[Daggers]

18 hours ago, rugbyblue said:

Not the same club set up as here but saw this on the BBC .  Fair play.  I'm guessing most fans here would reject it too if we had enough sway.  As a side note....check out the stands!!!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/videos/c6pyp32n198o

Thanks for that.

 

What a great nation Sweden is.

[SemperEadem]

7 minutes ago, iancognito said:

Not true. You've obviously forgotten what it was like pre-VAR. Some genuine howlers that cost clubs millions. And it hasn't gotten better as the Championship proved. They need help, they're terrible at their jobs and fans DO mind wrong decisions. We need to do it like they do on the continent. Do it better, not do it without help.

The enjoyment was still there as you werent stood around like a wally wondering what the **** was happening.

[SemperEadem]

6 minutes ago, iancognito said:

It's never going to be perfect because of subjective calls and human error but it is better over there. They don't go looking for issues like our officials do.

The fans in the ground haven't a clue what is happening. It's laughable that Bochum fans in the stadium have to message us watching on TV to find out what is going on.

[Clever Fox]

9 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

60 seconds for a corner?! Or do you just mean in general. In which case I agree. Slow mo's should be banned and replaying the incident over and over should be too, since it's clearly not an error.

 

As for a panel, that gets more complicated as then you need consensus surely, rather a majority rules situation. Makes sense of face value but no chance it works smoothly in football.

In general I'd say 60 seconds is enough.

The panel would be fairer but you would need more personnel.

I'd just give each a buzzer to press on seeing it play back once.

Otherwise you can get people changing their mind.

That shouldn't take more than 60 seconds.

[Clever Fox]

42 minutes ago, rugbyblue said:

Seriously??? You want it to look at MORE incidents 😂😂😂😂

They're looking at the whole game with the advantage of instant playback. I'd just like to see them correct a decision they see wrong.

Like who the ball clearly came off for corners etc.

If it's not clear just go with the referees decision.

[ourla]

1 hour ago, Death by Football said:

I’m surprised how high those numbers are. Would be interested to know what percentage of those polled were match-going fans. 
Statistically it may make for more correct decisions overall but it is at the expense of atmosphere and the enjoyment of a match. 
asking if it has made the game fairer is a bit of an odd question. If you believed refs are biased towards the big clubs with their decision making then allowing a biased ref from the same group to judge as VAR is surely no different. 
I want the system gone but if it has to stay then a time limit of 30seconds to assess and overrule decisions if necessary should be applied. That way we don’t have the long wait between celebration and disappointment. 

I think you are right that match goers would be skewed more to dislike.

 

Fairer just means more decisions  are correct. Which is statistically proven - quite logically. But as you say there is a question of whether there is a downside in atmo and enjoyment.

 

If I thought that coaches, players and fans would accept officials decisions without much complaint I would be much more relaxed about it. 

[Phenom]

59 minutes ago, iancognito said:

Not true. You've obviously forgotten what it was like pre-VAR. Some genuine howlers that cost clubs millions. And it hasn't gotten better as the Championship proved. They need help, they're terrible at their jobs and fans DO mind wrong decisions. We need to do it like they do on the continent. Do it better, not do it without help.

Agreed. One of the best things about leaving the Championship 

[Crinklyfox]

I'm only interested in two options:

 

Option 1 - Scrap VAR

Option 2 - Keep VAR but not as an automatic check.  Allow each manager two VAR checks per game available by challenge.  A successful VAR check means the manager does not lose a challenge.

 

I favour (1) but would go for (2) as an alternative to the current system which is sucking the life out of the game.

[rugbyblue]

1 hour ago, Phenom said:

Agreed. One of the best things about leaving the Championship 

 

Edited 16 May by rugbyblue
.

[iancognito]

2 hours ago, SemperEadem said:

The fans in the ground haven't a clue what is happening. It's laughable that Bochum fans in the stadium have to message us watching on TV to find out what is going on.

Which is totally fixable

[RonnieTodger]

2 hours ago, iancognito said:

Not true. You've obviously forgotten what it was like pre-VAR. Some genuine howlers that cost clubs millions. And it hasn't gotten better as the Championship proved. They need help, they're terrible at their jobs and fans DO mind wrong decisions. We need to do it like they do on the continent. Do it better, not do it without help.

Terrible decisions have cost clubs millions even with VAR. Bruno Fernandes getting a farcical penalty at Villa Park springs to mind and they got top 4 at our expense. PSG’s last minute penalty against Newcastle this season, which knocked them out of Europe. 
 

If it’s subjective, it isn’t worth the hassle. Football has become so much worse since its induction.

 

It might get more correct decisions but the cons outweigh the pros by about 500%.

[iancognito]

12 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

Terrible decisions have cost clubs millions even with VAR. Bruno Fernandes getting a farcical penalty at Villa Park springs to mind and they got top 4 at our expense. PSG’s last minute penalty against Newcastle this season, which knocked them out of Europe. 
 

If it’s subjective, it isn’t worth the hassle. Football has become so much worse since its induction.

 

It might get more correct decisions but the cons outweigh the pros by about 500%.

You talk about the Newcastle incident but you'll struggle to find many other occasions where it's been wrong in European games. That gets flagged because it's been a rarity.

Even the commentators from TNT and Sky have said the difference is staggering. It's almost un-noticeable. It's always going to be subjective that was never any different and a lot of the resistance has been because people assumed all decisions would be perfect.

 

I'm not 100% behind it but this season has reminded me just how terrible refs are when they have to rely on one glance or completely missed an incident. Get rid of it and it will go back the other way, moaning about refs incompetence/corruption.

[iancognito]

1 hour ago, Crinklyfox said:

I'm only interested in two options:

 

Option 1 - Scrap VAR

Option 2 - Keep VAR but not as an automatic check.  Allow each manager two VAR checks per game available by challenge.  A successful VAR check means the manager does not lose a challenge.

 

I favour (1) but would go for (2) as an alternative to the current system which is sucking the life out of the game.

What sucks the life out is the offsides. It's always the time they take to draw bloody lines and I don't see anyone else doing that. The Euros will show how well it can operate, just like the World Cup did. Auto offsides will help and then it's just the communication in grounds.

 

A challenge system will end up like subs. The likes of Mourinho and Klopp whining until they get 5 or 6 challenges per game or moaning their challenge was over ruled. The biggest problem in football is that no-one accepts officials decisions, whether tech is involved or not. Refs are sworn at, screamed at and surrounded. In some cases they get physically abused all because their authority is disrespected.

[cruzFOX]

So next season the automated calls come into play for the clear and obvious which will be lightning quick like the eagle eye ball over the line tech. That will help but we’ll still see the issues over the more close calls hence the long intermissions.

[StanSP]

4 hours ago, boots60 said:

One of the reasons most of us started watching football is because it is a simple game that flows. That is no longer the scenario.

Players don't want it

Managers don't want it

Fans don't want it.

Get rid, get back to human error.

This is true, until they do because they didn't get a decision they want in a game. Look at how furious Klopp/Arteta are with it. They'll be even more furious when VAR goes and they say a referee should have changed the decision.

 

It's a different perspective for fans and I understand why they don't want it.

[Jattdogg]

Var is needed to a point IMO. If you get rid of it then that's fine but, perhaps there is room to review "cheating" (diving, dirty tackle going unnoticed) and dealing with bans retroactively?

 

Or no?

Edited 16 May by Jattdogg

[Silverfox14]

I would like to see a system based on each team having 2 referrals each match to challenge a decision.  If referral is incorrect you lose it.  If referral is upheld you keep it.

 

Similar works in other sports

[Rossiter]

1 hour ago, cruzFOX said:

So next season the automated calls come into play for the clear and obvious which will be lightning quick like the eagle eye ball over the line tech. That will help but we’ll still see the issues over the more close calls hence the long intermissions.

I think some business people can see an opportunity for showing TV commercials during VAR breaks. Longer VAR checks could suit advertisers. Unless the game becomes unwatchable due to VAR.