Election prediction time

[David Hankey]

5 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Do we? Who do you presume to speak on behalf of, other than yourself? 

Didn't expect you, HPF, to agree for one minute but it doesn't take Einstein to work out that things will be better on 5th July than they are now and probably won't be in 1-5 years time.

[Parafox]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Right, that's a good summation of the issue (I would add that Reform may push the Tories further right or even take their place as an additional risk).

 

So I ask again: what is to be done? I honestly don't know.

 

 

The greens at least treat the single biggest problem facing the future with the seriousness it deserves.

 

Hopefully they will get a few MPs that can then keep the bigger fish moving on this most important matter.

 

That's the important thing and one of the reasons people might vote Green. We know they won't get a parliamentary majority any time soon but the more MP's they can get on the benches the bigger their voice becomes.

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

4 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Didn't expect you, HPF, to agree for one minute but it doesn't take Einstein to work out that things will be better on 5th July than they are now and probably won't be in 1-5 years time.

How will anything, other than names attached to job titles, have changed for better or worse on 5th July?

[HighPeakFox]

15 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Didn't expect you, HPF, to agree for one minute but it doesn't take Einstein to work out that things will be better on 5th July than they are now and probably won't be in 1-5 years time.

That's an opinion, David, not a fact, and anyway, it's not about that. I just do not like people appropriating others' consent. It doesn't take Einstein to work out that purporting to speak for 'we' when you mean 'I' is completely unacceptable and frankly, not your (or indeed anyone else's) place. Hence I am speaking for myself here, even if I suspect a few others will be also be irritated by your assumptive use of the royal 'we'.

Edited 27 June by HighPeakFox

[Daggers]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

That's an opinion, David, not a fact, and anyway, it's not about that. I just do not like people appropriating others' consent. It doesn't take Einstsein to work out that purporting to speak for 'we' when you mean 'I' is completely unacceptable and frankly, not your (or indeed anyone else's) place. Hence I am speaking for myself here, even if I suspect a few others will be also be irritated by your assumptive use of the royal 'we'.

Yes, we are.

[Daggers]

Reform officials caught being racist and homophobic shock

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-undercover-inside-reforms-campaign-evidence-of-homophobia-and-canvassers-racism

[Daggers]

Referring to the legal spending limit for a campaign in a single seat, Mr Gravett says: “A short campaign you’ve got, I don’t know, twenty grand or whatever it is, the figure”.

In response, Mr Bates is heard saying: “We’ve spent double that already, don’t worry”, before Mr Jones adds: “It’s twenty grand minus… It’s six for VAT. So actually it’s only f****** fifteen.”
 

…He later tells a man who says he’s a paramedic to deny oxygen to a patient in an ambulance if they are “any of that f****** lot”.

“And do us a favour. You’re a paramedic. Any of that f****** lot get in your ambulance, just don’t put oxygen on the bastard. Use something else. You know where I’m coming from”, he says.

 

….Later, outlining their vision for a future Reform government, Mr Gravett is heard saying: “When we form the government in 2029 then surely we can change lots of things”.

In response, Mr Jones is heard saying “our police officers will be paramilitaries, they won’t be police” and that Reform UK should “bring back the noose”.

[Parafox]

Former Newcastle United owner Sir John Hall backs Reform - BBC News

 

Read it and gasp.

 

His comments sum up Reform's raison d'etre.

 

Example:

 

He said: "I'm white, I am proud of it and I am not going to go away from it.

"I want to see my culture kept in this country and not destroyed.

 

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

24 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

That's the important thing and one of the reasons people might vote Green. We know they won't get a parliamentary majority any time soon but the more MP's they can get on the benches the bigger their voice becomes.

 

That's true. I just wish their platform was one I could universally agree with.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Referring to the legal spending limit for a campaign in a single seat, Mr Gravett says: “A short campaign you’ve got, I don’t know, twenty grand or whatever it is, the figure”.

In response, Mr Bates is heard saying: “We’ve spent double that already, don’t worry”, before Mr Jones adds: “It’s twenty grand minus… It’s six for VAT. So actually it’s only f****** fifteen.”
 

…He later tells a man who says he’s a paramedic to deny oxygen to a patient in an ambulance if they are “any of that f****** lot”.

“And do us a favour. You’re a paramedic. Any of that f****** lot get in your ambulance, just don’t put oxygen on the bastard. Use something else. You know where I’m coming from”, he says.

 

….Later, outlining their vision for a future Reform government, Mr Gravett is heard saying: “When we form the government in 2029 then surely we can change lots of things”.

In response, Mr Jones is heard saying “our police officers will be paramilitaries, they won’t be police” and that Reform UK should “bring back the noose”.

 

6 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Former Newcastle United owner Sir John Hall backs Reform - BBC News

 

Read it and gasp.

 

His comments sum up Reform's raison d'etre.

 

Example:

 

He said: "I'm white, I am proud of it and I am not going to go away from it.

"I want to see my culture kept in this country and not destroyed.

 

 

 

 

The mask slips.

 

When it comes to ethnonationalists like that, it almost always does.

[David Hankey]

19 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

That's an opinion, David, not a fact, and anyway, it's not about that. I just do not like people appropriating others' consent. It doesn't take Einstein to work out that purporting to speak for 'we' when you mean 'I' is completely unacceptable and frankly, not your (or indeed anyone else's) place. Hence I am speaking for myself here, even if I suspect a few others will be also be irritated by your assumptive use of the royal 'we'.

Sorry to have "irritated" you, HPF I know I normally do but you will agree, hopefully, that we are all entitled to an opinion.

 

I just wish some folk on these boards wouldn't be so damned picky.

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, David Hankey said:

Sorry to have "irritated" you, HPF I know I normally do but you will agree, hopefully, that we are all entitled to an opinion.

 

I just wish some folk on these boards wouldn't be so damned picky.

I don't mind your opinion here one bit, David. Just don't try to speak for me - that is all. Can you not see why it's wrong to do so?

 

I wish some folk on these boards wouldn't be so damned lazy and assumptive.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I don't mind your opinion here one bit, David. Just don't try to speak for me - that is all. Can you not see why it's wrong to do so?

 

I wish some folk on these boards wouldn't be so damned lazy and assumptive.

People not qualifying their remarks on important issues is deeply frustrating, I hear you there Peaky.

[NJFox]

 John Oliver Explains the Upcoming UK Elections to Americans

 

29 minutes, but a humorous and poignant watch from abroad. Takes my mind off of what’s to come over here, later this year.

Edited 27 June by NJFox

[st albans fox]

46 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Reform officials caught being racist and homophobic shock

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-undercover-inside-reforms-campaign-evidence-of-homophobia-and-canvassers-racism

Main point is that I think a big chunk of reform voters aren’t bothered by views like this 

to them, the ends justifiy the means 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, NJFox said:

 John Oliver Explains the Upcoming UK Elections to Americans

 

29 minutes, but a humorous and poignant watch from abroad. Takes my mind off of what’s to come over here, later this year.

Should have posted this earlier myself, it's brilliant.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Main point is that I think a big chunk of reform voters aren’t bothered by views like this 

to them, the ends justifiy the means 

Well, yeah.

 

Entities like that just convince those who are of a particular opinion to go masks-off.

Edited 27 June by leicsmac

[Wymsey]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/25/labour-silence-on-disgraced-keith-vazs-record-could-see-him-re-elected-mayor-warns

 

[Sampson]

4 hours ago, Robo61 said:

Just when you thought they couldn't possibly sink any lower

Oh they can. Campaign advertising now has people simulating literally being in the firing line if you vote Labour. 
 

This is the cultivating a culture of nastiness and negativity I keep talking about. How are these things healthy for society? It’s what the Tories do, just sew and create a culture of hatred and division. Regardless of economic and social political beliefs, the general attitude and environment of the country was just so much nicer 1997-2010 than it was 1979-1997 or 2010-2024.

 

Edited 27 June by Sampson

[Robo61]

11 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Oh they can. Campaign advertising now has people simulating literally being in the firing line if you vote Labour. 
 

This is the cultivating a culture of nastiness and negativity I keep talking about. How are these things healthy for society? It’s what the Tories do, just sew and create a culture of hatred and division. Regardless of economic and social political beliefs, the general attitude and environment of the country was just so much nicer 1997-2010 than it was 1979-1997 or 2010-2024.

 

Learnt my lesson last time.  That is truly horrendous given that it is them that will take us out of the ECHR.

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

The mask slips.

 

When it comes to ethnonationalists like that, it almost always does.

I try to be a little softer and not always equate reform / right wingers as nasty ....I know that's the narrative but couldn't be the fella is saying he's proud of his country, culture and yes, colour just as we might expect, say, Nelson Mandela to say he's be proud to be black, south African and his African culture.

 

Sir John Hall may well be an appalling racist but those comments mentioned don't prove it. 

 

(Fwiw, and I feel the need to justify myself before any lazy assumptions, I don't personally give a shit of anyone's colour or religion or nationality or immigration method....all we all want surely is decency, manners and gives/asks for mutual respect) 

 

 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I try to be a little softer and not always equate reform / right wingers as nasty ....I know that's the narrative but couldn't be the fella is saying he's proud of his country, culture and yes, colour just as we might expect, say, Nelson Mandela to say he's be proud to be black, south African and his African culture.

 

Sir John Hall may well be an appalling racist but those comments mentioned don't prove it. 

 

(Fwiw, and I feel the need to justify myself before any lazy assumptions, I don't personally give a shit of anyone's colour or religion or nationality or immigration method....all we all want surely is decency, manners and gives/asks for mutual respect) 

 

 

Were this eight years ago and the situation less delineated, I would agree with this more.

 

But the events of 2016 drew the lines pretty starkly and as such now when someone tells me who they are (or even drops heavy hints so they can hide behind the "out of context", "that's not what I meant" excuse) I'm inclined to believe them. I was Stateside for the first part of the Trump presidency, and that rather embodied it.

 

Perhaps that's rather uncharitable of me to not really give the benefit of any doubt, but again the events of the last eight years (including a few notable ones) have rather changed my view on that score, along with the fact that it is a truth that Reform are the only vaguely major party not taking the single most important long-term issue in any way seriously either - which would be enough for me to bollock them for their betrayal of the future without any of this.

[Mickyblueeyes]

2 hours ago, Parafox said:

Former Newcastle United owner Sir John Hall backs Reform - BBC News

 

Read it and gasp.

 

His comments sum up Reform's raison d'etre.

 

Example:

 

He said: "I'm white, I am proud of it and I am not going to go away from it.

"I want to see my culture kept in this country and not destroyed.

 

 

 

 

Someone needs to tell Sir John that Reforms deputy leader is Karachi born, Ben Habib.

 

One of its biggest donors is Zia Yusuf. 

[Legend_in_blue]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Oh they can. Campaign advertising now has people simulating literally being in the firing line if you vote Labour. 
 

This is the cultivating a culture of nastiness and negativity I keep talking about. How are these things healthy for society? It’s what the Tories do, just sew and create a culture of hatred and division. Regardless of economic and social political beliefs, the general attitude and environment of the country was just so much nicer 1997-2010 than it was 1979-1997 or 2010-2024.

 

There's previous for this.  Fingers crossed people this time round are not bullied by it and taken in.

 

 

[MPH]

It’s just been on the news that the entire England football team have been banned from voting in the upcoming election.

 

Apparently there’s little point in them voting until they know how to stick a cross into the box..