Group C: Slovenia, Denmark, Serbia, England

[Matt]

Why, how(!) has the modern game become so sterile and boring?

 

This isn’t the same game we all fell in love with.

[fazzyfox]

Southgate is a saviour, a national hero. On one of the hottest stickiest nights here this year I had no problem sleeping, I just put on the repeat of the game, tried to watch closely to work out what was going on ("why is he passing it 20 yards backwards when he had a forward ball on there? Why so cautious? Why is no-one moving? " etc and before long zzzzzzzz. Ta Gareth!

[RowlattsFox]

Trippier will probably the next fall guy but I don't think he's done too bad. It's not having a winger in front of him that is the problem. I'ver never been that impressed with Gordon but he's best left sided option to play in front of Trippier. He's never going to play Foden as 10 so move him to the right where he can link up with Walker and is much more of a threat cutting in. At least you've then got club connections either side. 

 

Going to have to accept Kane will play. Bellingham clearly was frustrated with Kane yesterday as he occupied space in midfield. 

 

Pickford

Walker

Stones

Guehi

Trippier

Mainoo

Rice

Foden

Bellingham

Gordon

Kane 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Blaming the fans for creating problems. Get so far to fvck, fans spending hundreds and thousands of pounds to follow you and watch you bore them to death. Arguably the strongest squad in the tournament putting in the most turgid performances you could imagine whilst the manager picks up 100 bags a week. 

 

Football is meant to be entertainment, ahead of anything else. 

 

The only "strange environment" Gareth, is the confliction that if we somehow win the bloody thing you'll stay as the manager.

[foxfanazer]

Honestly feel like it'd take someone like Kane getting injured in training to kick start something here. He won't change things off of his own back so it needs to be forced. His positional sense this tournament has been laughable whether it's by instruction or not

 

That clip where he inexplicably ran from the edge of the box to the centre circle to take up a space 2 yards away from one of his teammates whom didn't have the ball was criminal 

Edited 26 June by foxfanazer

[goose2010]

How can you have that much attacking threat and score 2 goals in 3 games. 

 

He should have resigned / been sacked after the Italy game. 

 

We have the top scoring player from the top 3 leagues in the world and i dont remember Oblak making a save last night?! 

 

We are stinking this tournament out and yes we have a favourable side of the draw but lets be honest we havent played a team that has strength in all positions. All we have played have defended well but none have decent forwards.  

 

As soon as we play someone with a half decent striker we will lose. If we play the Dutch you may as well drop Kane as VVD will eat him alive how he is playing currently. 

 

Its pathetic effort with a pathetic excuse of a manager and the players and manager arent doing themselves any favours with their post match comments. 

 

 

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Blaming the fans for creating problems. Get so far to fvck, fans spending hundreds and thousands of pounds to follow you and watch you bore them to death. Arguably the strongest squad in the tournament putting in the most turgid performances you could imagine whilst the manager picks up 100 bags a week. 

 

Football is meant to be entertainment, ahead of anything else. 

 

The only "strange environment" Gareth, is the confliction that if we somehow win the bloody thing you'll stay as the manager.

My current probably-total-bollocks pet theory is that the squad, manager and certain sections of the press have, over the last 5-6 years, created an idea that criticism of the England national squad is uniquely toxic and unfair compared to other football teams, when in reality it's probably no better in many other countries. I don't think it's necessarily deliberate and much of it is well intentioned, but it all piles up - the defence of Maguire, the stories about online abuse of players, the Dear England theme of constructing a supportive environment where players can share their fears and make mistakes without incriminations. Mix that in with the absurd hype around some players, particularly Bellingham, and you have a squad of extremely think-skinned, fearful players more interested in public relations than performances, with a sureness in their own abilities bordering on the narcissistic. 

[Samilktray]

Still fancy us to go on and win the whole thing 

[foxfanazer]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

My current probably-total-bollocks pet theory is that the squad, manager and certain sections of the press have, over the last 5-6 years, created an idea that criticism of the England national squad is uniquely toxic and unfair compared to other football teams, when in reality it's probably no better in many other countries. I don't think it's necessarily deliberate and much of it is well intentioned, but it all piles up - the defence of Maguire, the stories about online abuse of players, the Dear England theme of constructing a supportive environment where players can share their fears and make mistakes without incriminations. Mix that in with the absurd hype around some players, particularly Bellingham, and you have a squad of extremely think-skinned, fearful players more interested in public relations than performances, with a sureness in their own abilities bordering on the narcissistic. 

Exactly. Do you really think the likes of Spain and Italy wouldn't get pelters  if they played the way we do? We have no patterns of play, no freedom for individual expression and no identity. Their obsession with the media and the fans just further shows their feeble mentality 

Edited 26 June by foxfanazer

[foxfanazer]

1 minute ago, Samilktray said:

Still fancy us to go on and win the whole thing 

"We won't get relegated, we'll be fine"

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Still fancy us to go on and win the whole thing 

Only if we bore every above-average team we come up against to sleep. 

[Corky]

41 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Blaming the fans for creating problems. Get so far to fvck, fans spending hundreds and thousands of pounds to follow you and watch you bore them to death. Arguably the strongest squad in the tournament putting in the most turgid performances you could imagine whilst the manager picks up 100 bags a week. 

 

Football is meant to be entertainment, ahead of anything else. 

 

The only "strange environment" Gareth, is the confliction that if we somehow win the bloody thing you'll stay as the manager.

The fans were behind the team in the second half where very little happened. The fans have watched their team score the same as Scotland and less than Poland and Albania.

 

If Schmeichel and Oblak, two top class keepers, had played blinders and we drew then fans would be less annoyed. But they had little to do and all three games had about four moments of excitement.

[fazzyfox]

The whole Kane thing is exhibit A, B and C in Vardy's case for his international retirement. Southgate and Hodgson would rather stretcher on a lame and immobile Kane than pick someone else, Watkins and co must be thinking "What's the point" of turning up. 

 

His coming deep to get involved reminds me of Rooney at one of the previous tournaments. Like the best kid in the playground he wanted to be on the ball all the time so came deeper and deeper. At one point he received the ball inside his own half, looked up to play a long ball forward and made a caveman-esque frown of confusion...."Duh, where's the centre forward I'm looking for" just as the whole pub shouted "That's you, that's where you should be you buffoon"! 

 

[VLC86]

Honestly can’t believe how bad all 3 games have been and how Southgate has somehow ruined Bellingham.

[ClaphamFox]

30 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Still fancy us to go on and win the whole thing 

Tournaments are often won by teams who are ordinary at best during the group stage. Sometimes they are won by teams that carry on being ordinary all the way through, but are just very good at avoiding being beaten.

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, VLC86 said:

Honestly can’t believe how bad all 3 games have been and how Southgate has somehow ruined Bellingham.

To be fair, Bellingham's form for Real Madrid dropped off massively in the second half of the season.

[LcFc_Smiv]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Why, how(!) has the modern game become so sterile and boring?

 

This isn’t the same game we all fell in love with.

Win at all costs has gone from throwing everything including the kitchen sink at it, to control the game, grind the other team down and try and nick a goal.

[foxfanazer]

I'm not letting Southgate off the hook at all as I think he's an utter fraud but can we agree that this group of players are massively overhyped. In my opinion (I know I'll get pelters) we have one genuinely world class player in Foden. Kyle Walker has had a great career and could be argued he's world class. Bellingham and Cole Palmer have the potential to be in the future but no guarantees. Harry Kane has plenty of goals none of which have equated to a trophy for club or country so in my opinion doesn't cut it.

 

Southgate has created a feel good culture within the squad during his tenure but in some ways I don't think that's helped. Everything's too nicey nicey and the players seem to lack any grit or personality. 

[foxfanazer]

3 minutes ago, fazzyfox said:

The whole Kane thing is exhibit A, B and C in Vardy's case for his international retirement. Southgate and Hodgson would rather stretcher on a lame and immobile Kane than pick someone else, Watkins and co must be thinking "What's the point" of turning up. 

 

His coming deep to get involved reminds me of Rooney at one of the previous tournaments. Like the best kid in the playground he wanted to be on the ball all the time so came deeper and deeper. At one point he received the ball inside his own half, looked up to play a long ball forward and made a caveman-esque frown of confusion...."Duh, where's the centre forward I'm looking for" just as the whole pub shouted "That's you, that's where you should be you buffoon"! 

 

I'm glad it's finally being picked up by the wider media and the fans. He's a detriment to the team no matter how much of a goalscorer he is. There's sadly just no chance in hell he gets dropped for Ollie Watkins 

[Super_horns]

Fine margins eh?

Mind you Slovenia will probably not mind missing Germany .

Edited 26 June by Super_horns

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Blaming the fans for creating problems. Get so far to fvck, fans spending hundreds and thousands of pounds to follow you and watch you bore them to death. Arguably the strongest squad in the tournament putting in the most turgid performances you could imagine whilst the manager picks up 100 bags a week. 

 

Football is meant to be entertainment, ahead of anything else. 

 

The only "strange environment" Gareth, is the confliction that if we somehow win the bloody thing you'll stay as the manager.

 

Very much individual-dependent that.

 

Though even as someone who prizes the result above all else, I'll happily admit the performances have been absolutely turgid, much better can be done and I can really see why it's driving people up the walls.

 

43 minutes ago, bovril said:

My current probably-total-bollocks pet theory is that the squad, manager and certain sections of the press have, over the last 5-6 years, created an idea that criticism of the England national squad is uniquely toxic and unfair compared to other football teams, when in reality it's probably no better in many other countries. I don't think it's necessarily deliberate and much of it is well intentioned, but it all piles up - the defence of Maguire, the stories about online abuse of players, the Dear England theme of constructing a supportive environment where players can share their fears and make mistakes without incriminations. Mix that in with the absurd hype around some players, particularly Bellingham, and you have a squad of extremely think-skinned, fearful players more interested in public relations than performances, with a sureness in their own abilities bordering on the narcissistic. 

This would make for a fascinating PhD study. My own working hypothesis would be that it is uniquely toxic, but I wouldn't be in the least surprised to see it proven wrong by study.

[VLC86]

21 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

To be fair, Bellingham's form for Real Madrid dropped off massively in the second half of the season.

That’s true, but I can’t imagine he was as bad for them as he has been for us.

[Foxdiamond]

21 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

I'm not letting Southgate off the hook at all as I think he's an utter fraud but can we agree that this group of players are massively overhyped. In my opinion (I know I'll get pelters) we have one genuinely world class player in Foden. Kyle Walker has had a great career and could be argued he's world class. Bellingham and Cole Palmer have the potential to be in the future but no guarantees. Harry Kane has plenty of goals none of which have equated to a trophy for club or country so in my opinion doesn't cut it.

 

Southgate has created a feel good culture within the squad during his tenure but in some ways I don't think that's helped. Everything's too nicey nicey and the players seem to lack any grit or personality. 

Agree that players are elevated to a higher rating far too soon in this country. This is particularly true if at a big club. Walker has had a great career though for me he lacks touch and his crosses are often wild. 

[shen]

4 hours ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

The really worrying thing is that Southgate is totally deluded and keeps talking about the strange environment they are in. 

 

Does he mean that thousands of people have paid thousands of pounds to watch complete and utter shite for 3 games when we were tournament favourites? 

 

They're watching a side totally devoid of confidence, cohesion, tactics and a manager who has no idea of his best 11, talks absolute twonk about the midfield problem we've had for 7 years and harks back to the great Kalvin Phillips and Hendo (both of which were average at best for England). 

 

'Erm things are not falling for us', 'erm things are starting to come together' .......... I fuching despair 

 

Get that big grinning ex Liverpool manager in asap 

 

 

Obviously Southgate isn't happy with things - but if you were the manager, wouldn't you be trying to quell outside pressure by dismissing it? He and the squad knows that it's best they block all that stuff out and just focus on things calmly behind closed doors. 

You may think of that as a fan what you will, but surely you can also see why this is a decent approach to protecting the players and thereby the chances of success?

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

Honestly feel like it'd take someone like Kane getting injured in training to kick start something here. He won't change things off of his own back so it needs to be forced. His positional sense this tournament has been laughable whether it's by instruction or not

 

That clip where he inexplicably ran from the edge of the box to the centre circle to take up a space 2 yards away from one of his teammates whom didn't have the ball was criminal 

I get the impression that Kane will continue to be first choice for England until he decides to call it a day even if well past his best or the team suited to a change