Group C: Slovenia, Denmark, Serbia, England

[FoxTimmy2]

[South Shire Fox]

8 hours ago, RumbleFox said:

              Pickford

 

Trent Stones Guehi Trippier

 

        Rice    Bellingham

 

Saka    Foden   Palmer

            
              Kane

 

Its not even hard Gareth. 

Palmers not a left midfielder like Foden isnt. Would have to be Gordon for me. Trippier doesnt work as a LB either

[wardyfox86]

8 hours ago, RumbleFox said:

              Pickford

 

Trent Stones Guehi Trippier

 

        Rice    Bellingham

 

Saka    Foden   Palmer

            
              Kane

 

Its not even hard Gareth. 

You'd have Kane, Foden, Palmer and Bellingham all wanting to occupy the same areas.

 

Southgate can't coach a tactic. He picks 11 players, a bog standard formation and just tells every player to do what they do at club level. Works through qualifying purely on the basis that our players are just better.

 

This'll be another generation of great players going absolutely nowhere under inept management.

[filbertway]

Against all but the very best teams, I'd genuinely look at going a bit like we set up 19/20 and 20/21 under Rodgers. 

 

Pickford

 

Walker

Stones

Guehi

Saka

 

Rice

 

Palmer/Eze

Foden

Bellingham

Bowen/Gordon

 

Kane

[foxfanazer]

They're all talking as if it's Southgate's first tournament. All of this "we're learning and we'll improve". 

There's no patterns of play other than meaningless 5 yard passes in midfield and Pickford hoofing it to Kane 

[Foxy DK]

If I were English I’d join the choir criticizing Southgate, though it tends to get a little black and white.

 

That said, we (Denmark) always give bigger teams problems and very rarely lose by more than a goal. We beat France both home and away in the Nations’ League in 2022. In 2020 we drew and won against you in NL. Since 2018 I think only Belgium has won by two in non-friendlies.

 

We thrive in the underdog role and we have struggled as favorites the last few years after a magical first two years with Hjulmand as coach. I think we have better depth and a higher average quality of players than ever, but we sorely lack dribblers who are so important in the modern game. Contrary to popular opinion here I think we have one of the best coaches in international football and he showed that again yesterday in the way he set us up with Vesty in the middle and AC shadowing Saka, then switching at once when you subbed. Even though we’ve struggled for some time Hjulmand is probably the best coach in Denmark including his good friend Thomas Frank.

 

That’s not to absolve Southgate because there’s really no excuse for not playing attacking football with intensity with the players you have in attack. Had VK (who’s becoming very good I think) not allowed Walker to walk past him we might just have won and that’s not good enough from your perspective of course. 

[Stadt]

I hadn’t thought about the hand until I logged on here, completely embarrassing again. Southgate just doesn’t learn - it’s embarrassing and actually quite funny.

 

If the FA contrive to offer him new terms my England interest will be in the doldrums.

[foxfanazer]

I thought Rice was as bad TAA last night in all honesty. Probably the worst I've seen him play in a long time

[RowlattsFox]

1 minute ago, foxfanazer said:

I thought Rice was as bad TAA last night in all honesty. Probably the worst I've seen him play in a long time

Like everyone else he struggled with the Denmark press but the lack of options he had whenever he had the ball was criminal given the attacking players he had in front of him.

 

At least with Rice you got the impression he was frustrated with his performance. Others didn't look like they cared either way. 

[foxfanazer]

Just now, RowlattsFox said:

Like everyone else he struggled with the Denmark press but the lack of options he had whenever he had the ball was criminal given the attacking players he had in front of him.

 

At least with Rice you got the impression he was frustrated with his performance. Others didn't look like they cared either way. 

Yeah agree with that

 

I thought they all looked absolutely miserable from the off last night. We really don't handle pressure well 

[purpleronnie]

3 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Yeah agree with that

 

I thought they all looked absolutely miserable from the off last night. We really don't handle pressure well 

I get the impression they'd rather be anywhere else, something that's been thrown at the England players for years, but when you see the fight and determination of other countries players it makes you wonder if it's true.

Edited 21 June by purpleronnie

[ARTY_FOX]

8 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Yeah agree with that

 

I thought they all looked absolutely miserable from the off last night. We really don't handle pressure well 

Would you be happy playing those tactics though? 

[RowlattsFox]

I think they are consistently dragged down by the fear of failure. We don't have the mindset to play with freedom.  

[Daggers]

 

[ARTY_FOX]

4 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

I think they are consistently dragged down by the fear of failure. We don't have the mindset to play with freedom.  

We don't have the manager to play with the mindset of freedom. Everyone else is begging for it

[foxfanazer]

3 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Would you be happy playing those tactics though? 

No. But it's a major international tournament. You don't get many of those as a professional footballer. It's as if they know it's being wasted 

[ARTY_FOX]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

No. But it's a major international tournament. You don't get many of those as a professional footballer. It's as if they know it's being wasted 

I'm 100% sure they all know their potential is being wasted under Southgate. The whole world can see it. 

[David Hankey]

Southgate's statement "there is still work to do" must be the understatement of the year.

 

There appears to be a lack of urgency and passion within the team and some are treating it as a series of pre-season friendlies.

[Wortho]

Southgate should’ve taken Grealish, Rashford and Mitchell as LB. 
He’s playing 3 RB’s in the team ffs!!

Trent is a vanity project, why not play Mainoo or Gallagher.

Or move Bellingham alongside Rice and Foden as a ten🤷‍♀️

[shen]

1 hour ago, Foxy DK said:

If I were English I’d join the choir criticizing Southgate, though it tends to get a little black and white.

 

That said, we (Denmark) always give bigger teams problems and very rarely lose by more than a goal. We beat France both home and away in the Nations’ League in 2022. In 2020 we drew and won against you in NL. Since 2018 I think only Belgium has won by two in non-friendlies.

 

We thrive in the underdog role and we have struggled as favorites the last few years after a magical first two years with Hjulmand as coach. I think we have better depth and a higher average quality of players than ever, but we sorely lack dribblers who are so important in the modern game. Contrary to popular opinion here I think we have one of the best coaches in international football and he showed that again yesterday in the way he set us up with Vesty in the middle and AC shadowing Saka, then switching at once when you subbed. Even though we’ve struggled for some time Hjulmand is probably the best coach in Denmark including his good friend Thomas Frank.

 

That’s not to absolve Southgate because there’s really no excuse for not playing attacking football with intensity with the players you have in attack. Had VK (who’s becoming very good I think) not allowed Walker to walk past him we might just have won and that’s not good enough from your perspective of course. 

International football is a strange beast. Management at this level is 90% about fostering relations and having clear expectations and known systems, because the time you can train together naturally puts constrains.

 

Southgate, when he started, seemed to get a tune out of the England players and succesfully managed to reduce pressure. Big kudos there, because that was maybe the biggest hurdle for England (especially in hindsight with all the clique stuff from the late 90s and 00s).

 

He's also renewed the squad and gone for a lot of youth which so many were crying out for. He's also not been shy of selecting players from unfancied sides although you could well argue there still is a top 6 bias. 

He doesn't seem to trust players much beyond his first XI though, especially in forward areas.

 

But his results point to him actually doing a lot of things right, which shouldn't be ignored by the ever-critical fanbase and media.

Compare him to previous coaches like Hoddle, Venables, Capelli, Eriksson et al, his record holds up really well despite those coaches having similar talent pools to choose from.

 

Same goes for Hjulmand. 

After the Qatar debacle (I'm still not happy with the explanations given), I didn't want to pull the trigger, but the largely tepid, uninspiring qualification and the squandered opportunity in the Nations League after getting thise France wins made me doubt whether he still had it.

 

Whisper it quietly, but even our Euro 2020 performance was obviously galvanized by the Eriksen episode, a hugely favourable draw and results going our way. The first half against Finland was so toothless lest we forget.

Which leaves the outstanding qualification for the WC'22 as his standout achievement, which although commendable, is no improvement on Hareide.

 

I might be overly harsh and I really do like the guy - he's extremely sympathetic and seems a thoroughly good human being who has his priorities straight - but like with England, if you don't entertain (which is a main goal of his) and your results are so-so, then criticism is valid.

 

I really hope he proves me wrong against Serbia. The Slovenia draw was poor, the England draw was fine, but a defeat against Serbia should surely spell the end for Hjulmand.

[Matt]

It’s the way forward (there’s irony in that somewhere) ain’t it.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

31 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Southgate's statement "there is still work to do" must be the understatement of the year.

 

There appears to be a lack of urgency and passion within the team and some are treating it as a series of pre-season friendlies.

All waving their arms about telling each other to "calm down". Yeah I don't think an overwhelming exuberance is our number one issue lads.

[Bordersfox]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

 

Thank you Daggers I have immediately forwarded this to my wife's families Charlton WhatsApp group. I've told them it's something lighthearted they might want to watch or share at work, particularly of there is anyone from senior management about.  

[Finnegan]

Not really bothered looking at the bracket much til now. 

 

Am I right in saying you won't meet any other group winner until at least the semi finals? 

 

Where as Spain Germany will almost certainly be a quarter final as will potentially (assuming they get their shit together) Belgium France? 

 

Southgate gets some ****ing luck in the draws doesn't he

 

[foxfanazer]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Not really bothered looking at the bracket much til now. 

 

Am I right in saying you won't meet any other group winner until at least the semi finals? 

 

Where as Spain Germany will almost certainly be a quarter final as will potentially (assuming they get their shit together) Belgium France? 

 

Southgate gets some ****ing luck in the draws doesn't he

 

You're assuming we're gonna win the group. Wouldn't bank on that right now. But yeah he's always been fortunate with draws