Steve Cooper - New Manager

[westernpark]

I really like him. 

[Nolucklcfc]

I do find the hate for him a bit strange. I’ve not really seen it so early on with a manager before with us. Not that I don’t share the concerns people have at all but it’s like we’ve lost 5-0 in every game … I’m very on the fence with cooper and have even since the start but it’s just interesting seeing how people feel strongly about him already. 

[splinterdream]

11 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

I do find the hate for him a bit strange. I’ve not really seen it so early on with a manager before with us. Not that I don’t share the concerns people have at all but it’s like we’ve lost 5-0 in every game … I’m very on the fence with cooper and have even since the start but it’s just interesting seeing how people feel strongly about him already. 

I’m thinking the same. I was feeling disappointed with Ndidi selection but didn’t say anything, and then he gets 2 assists. All you can do is trust the manager who sees these players everyday. We’ve all got opinions on how the game should be played but for 1 individual error and a dubious VAR decision. That’s 3 points today 

[The Doctor]

thing that bothers me is he claimed he'd spent his time out learning from his mistakes at forest, so why the hell is he making the exact same ones? the only real conclusion is that he doesn't think they are mistakes, he thinks 800 men behind the ball, national league team at a PL team in the cup, is sensible tactics, which makes him tactically inept and not fit to be a PL manager. get him gone

[lcfcbluearmy]

4 hours ago, Gazza M said:

If you didn't know our results you would think we are getting thrashed every week by reading reactions on here. Next week is the big test. Home game against a poor team. Winning that is important. If we do then today is a sound point on the road. 

Steve Cooper is already looking into a way to play 5 defenders and 5 DMs

[Stadt]

It’s like we went in front accidentally so he had to change things up to salvage a draw.

[orangecity23]

10 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

thing that bothers me is he claimed he'd spent his time out learning from his mistakes at forest, so why the hell is he making the exact same ones? the only real conclusion is that he doesn't think they are mistakes, he thinks 800 men behind the ball, national league team at a PL team in the cup, is sensible tactics, which makes him tactically inept and not fit to be a PL manager. get him gone

He tried, but after watching all the old matches he got too distracted and reverted to his usual post game response:

 

[funkyrobot]

Shocking game management in the last 20 minutes from Cooper. We let Palace have the ball in our final 3rd for virtually all of the remaining time. By going with two negative subs and not bringing on an attacking outlet after they swamped the game with forwards off the bench, it allowed their extra forwards to do what they do best without them having to worry about us. Coady was embarrassing for their equaliser, real schoolboy stuff. 

[Kitchandro]

There are some people on this forum whom I know have been watching football for many years, but who give the impression that they haven’t.

 

People who watch football know that if you put everyone behind the ball and invite pressure for over 15-20 minutes, you will concede 9 times out of 10. It’s just common sense. So it’s pointless blaming Coady when there was so much time and so many opportunities for Palace to capitalise on their territorial dominance.

We weren’t playing the percentages and giving ourselves the best chance of hanging onto a lead (or extending it, which is still a viable option at 2-0 & 2-1 btw), and that is the criticism. If you’re playing well and not under the cosh, don’t start putting yourself under the cosh. It’s just cowardice and stupidity.

 

What constantly surprises me is that there are so many professional coaches who have not learnt this.

Edited Saturday at 22:49 by Kitchandro

[lcfcbluearmy]

38 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

I do find the hate for him a bit strange. I’ve not really seen it so early on with a manager before with us. Not that I don’t share the concerns people have at all but it’s like we’ve lost 5-0 in every game … I’m very on the fence with cooper and have even since the start but it’s just interesting seeing how people feel strongly about him already. 

I don't hate him just think he's shit, I wish I could be as shit at my job as he is at his and get paid what he is

[alanf0x]

Why don’t we judge after 10 / 15 games. If the season finished now, objective met. Simple. 

[splinterdream]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Right, I'm going to try and be as objective as possible. He's a certain type of manager, he's managed to distill in to this squad a certain amount of fight, which is a basic requirement but should at least be recognised.

 

We certainly aren't completely abject like I've seen us, for example in the latter parts of the Rodgers regime or Puel etc. However, this should be the honeymoon period so there's still plenty of time for that. 

 

Tactically he is scaring me. If you're going to deploy essentially 7-8 defense minded players in games or only utilise any creativity when chasing games then you best get results otherwise the criticism is going to come in waves. I'm not interested in us having to play this type of football, with this personnel to only concede nearly 2 goals a game and on average score once a game. 

 

I was really impressed with the 1st half and there were plenty of positives. However it became quite clear that the sacrifice of deploying 3 defensive midfielders, with one expected to advance is that you need two explosive wingers to capitalise, otherwise it becomes a bit too limited. Or if you're going to go with one of Ayew or Reid then at the very least a creative central midfielder is needed in El Khannouss or Bounanotte. 

 

Despite going this cautious, we've still shipped goals. They've almost exclusively all come down the right hand side and yet Ricardo remains completely ignored. For the 2nd away game running, we've essentially not had a single shot after that fortunate 2nd goal almost right from kick off. If this is what the result is of such caution then I'm not interested. This is not what I watch football for. If we'd held on to the win I'd have been relieved of getting a crucial win but I'd still have been uneasy at the substitutions. We had 8 out of 10 outfield players that were defenders or defensive midfielders. I honestly don't even think Tony Pulis or Gary Megson has pulled that sort of shit before. 

 

I don't understand what he was trying to achieve as it was evident he'd disregarded any notion of trying to put the game to bed. Tactical terrorism. 

 

He's shown his hand already. I'm left querying why he was getting so angry about not being able to land attacking midfielders. Their role under Cooper is to have to come on in games we're losing and see if they can salvage something. It's bleak. Alarm bells should have been ringing vs Spurs when we had them on the back foot after equalising and then he took Bounanotte off for Soumare and killed our entire momentum. 

 

Many will say we were a Coady brain fart away from the perfect away performance, I couldn't disagree more and to be honest it didn't happen and so questions then get asked. We'd invited them on for over half an hour. Nketiah inches from equalising, Eze close but for a excellent block from Okoli and frantic challenges in the area from Fatawu and Kristiansen. It was far from a sucker punch at the death. It's no coincidence how appalling his record is as a manager in the PL and especially away from home, he's mastered how not to win football matches.

 

I am however, getting a bit more belief regarding our squad. I think there's a nucleus of a capable team here and hopefully our board have the vision that they've made a mistake on Cooper and act. 

 

 

I thought all those players played well, up to 60 when they began to flag. For me cooper got his late game subs and tactics wrong. This is a complaint I heard from my Forest supporting brother in law so worried that he doesn’t learn, international duty may have factored as well.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

I thought all those players played well, up to 60 when they began to flag. For me cooper got his late game subs and tactics wrong. This is a complaint I heard from my Forest supporting brother in law so worried that he doesn’t learn, international duty may have factored as well.

The issue with setting up with the personnel he's gone with the last two, is you don't have the benefit of the qualities such players bring if you did want to try and see out the game. We're told Ayew is a nightmare to play against when running down the clock. 

 

We set up like we're trying to see out a result but then when we need to see one out we're bringing the likes of Choudhury on and got 8 defensive players on and are hoping we can exploit some counter attacks? 

 

This is why his away record and in his PL record in general is so poor.

 

It's becoming highly likely he only views creative players as a last resort to chase games, which is quite frankly a disgrace.

[Iwebema]

It's a mixed bag isn't it, the problem is the negatives are repetitive.

 

Spurs, he got the set up totally wrong (which fair play to him he admitted)

Got us playing excellent counter attacking football 2nd half, credit to him.

But then when spurs were on the ropes he bottled it and settled for the point. Fine it's game 1 against spurs, I get it but he didn't seize the moment in front of him.

 

Fulham set up was OK, Justin is just a bit rubbish, but we got back into. The game then just drifts, it's crying out for either team to do something to influence it, he does nothing we go 2-1 down then he reacts too late. Again poor in game management, not spotting the opportunity when it's there, staying safe at all costs until it's too late.

 

Villa set up was wrong at home, the fight was there but the quality around the box wasn't. Again waits until we are 2 down before trying to influence the game, we were unlucky not to get a point, but his team selection left us devoid of Premier league goals until it was too late.

 

And today, credit to him for the first half, but the game is 90 minutes and he dropped a clanger by going so defensive, inviting so much pressure something was bound to happen, yes it's a coady mistake, but you are not setting the team up in a way to give them the best chance in the last 20, it's just not how good managers in top leagues play anymore, save that for the football league.

 

So in every game he's got some things right, we've been in every game and there is definitely some fight, but also his missed opportunities in all 4 to go for it, far too cowardly to act and waited for his hand to be forced before impacting the game.

 

You mix this in with the ricardo situation, you could accept it if Justin was just playing well but he been culpable for mistakes in every game. 

 

There are alot of red flags, we got into trouble before by blindly saying it will be fine and not acting quickly enough and I don't want to do it again. I'm not quite at the get rid stage yet but the worrying pattern of the same mistakes and lessons not being learnt already is concerning. 

 

My hope is we see him let the handbrake off a little against Everton, but anything short of 3 points and I think I'll be in the out camp.

Edited Saturday at 23:12 by Iwebema

[Guppys Love Child]

Ok open question.

 

 Fast forward another 5 games, does anyone see him, for the 5 games that is, actually changing he is tactics, his negative, overly defensive at the expense of any real attacking intent team selections, his continued omission of Ricardo at the expense of, and this must be in Cooper's eyes alone, the 'superior' player, in the form of JJ (yeah I know, I shook my head in dismay at that thought when I typed it, but it's actually happening people, Ricardo's not setting foot on the pitch) 

 

His aversion to play both Fatawu AND Mavadidi on opposite wings at the same time, even just a little bit

 

Horrendous Sub selections that weaken the set up and keep us overly defensive.

..the list of cluelessness goes on and on, and I weap at the fact.

 

The answer I bet is No....

 

We have so far played a basic, all be it small cross section of teams.

 

2 realistically who will push for a Euro spot, and some mid to bottom table quality and so far with Cooper as our manager we have woefully under achieved and seen no real intention from him to adapt and tweak for the opposition. 

 

If anyone is convinced that in the next five games we will see anything different to what we are currently being subjected too I'm all ears to listen to your reasoning.

 

But unless Cooper has a Eureka moment and changes some of his ways or the Board have one of their own and change Cooper, its bottom 3 for us boys and girls.

 

 Ok time to convince me my opinion is wrong.

[trabuch]

I honestly don't know how anyone is defending him. I'm one of the most long suffering supporters when it comes to managers, but he totally ****ed us today.

[splinterdream]

Think he’s starting with caution and looking to build momentum from there. I agree Hamza was a horrendous sub. I’d have gone with buono, ricardo and Abdul at 60 for ndidi, Stephy and Vardy, and pushed ayew up front, if you introduce hamza, tell him he protects the back 4 rather than jogging around up front where he had zero impact.

i guess I just expect us to be so bad that todays performance fills me full with hope, I don’t think teams will enjoy playing us, and that’s decent concerning what we’ve been up against

[trabuch]

35 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Shocking game management in the last 20 minutes from Cooper. We let Palace have the ball in our final 3rd for virtually all of the remaining time. By going with two negative subs and not bringing on an attacking outlet after they swamped the game with forwards off the bench, it allowed their extra forwards to do what they do best without them having to worry about us. Coady was embarrassing for their equaliser, real schoolboy stuff. 

Exactly - it was a training exercise for them - attack v defence. We''ll give you the ball and you have a go and try and score - if you don't, we''ll give you the ball and you can have another go. Don't worry - we won't attack, so you can have nearly all your players joining in. It was horrible to watch, and mind blowing that a PL manager thought it was acceptable - and encouraged it with his diabolical substitutions. 

[Guppys Love Child]

To follow on from my last post.

 

I was one asking for others at the beginning to give him some time, but I see nothing in him now that warrants me to continue to ask.

 

I've seen enough already for me to decide he just won't and / or can't change.

I don't hate the Guy (unlike Rodgers) he's just isn't good enough.. so  Bye Bye Steve and thanks for trying.

Edited Saturday at 23:25 by Guppys Love Child

[Mickyblueeyes]

The Coady sub was a defensive and my only criticism of it was that I thought it was a bit too early. Otherwise, it’s not the worse decision in the world. 
 

However, I can’t get the Choudhury one. Especially alongside the Coady one and with Vardy still on the pitch. Given the role he wanted Hamza to play, how do you look down that subs bench and not turn to Riccy ? Experience, talented, retains the ball, versatile and, as last season showed, an experienced leader. 

[splinterdream]

Makes you wonder whether fans know more about the profile of these players than manager and coaches. Perhaps they should have a fan in dugout .

[FoxFossil]

If I could set up a poll it would be 'how many more games before we sack Cooper'?

5-10

10-15

Never, delighted to get relegated again.

[trabuch]

6 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The Coady sub was a defensive and my only criticism of it was that I thought it was a bit too early. Otherwise, it’s not the worse decision in the world. 
 

However, I can’t get the Choudhury one. Especially alongside the Coady one and with Vardy still on the pitch. Given the role he wanted Hamza to play, how do you look down that subs bench and not turn to Riccy ? Experience, talented, retains the ball, versatile and, as last season showed, an experienced leader. 

Why wasn't Vesty on the bench? He'd have been much better in that situation than a decidedly rusty Coady. Is there something going on behind the scenes? The Riccardo thing is troubling. He's definitely PL quality, but Cooper doesn't want to play him. Why is that?

[funkyrobot]

3 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Makes you wonder whether fans know more about the profile of these players than manager and coaches. Perhaps they should have a fan in dugout .

Tbf I don’t think any fan sat in the dugout would’ve brought Hamza AND Coady on today when we were winning 2-1. You don’t need a top level FA coaching licence or years of management experience to see that bringing on two defenders, defending very deep and inviting a team on, whilst showing no intention to attack is likely to end badly. 

[trabuch]

1 minute ago, funkyrobot said:

Tbf I don’t think any fan sat in the dugout would’ve brought Hamza AND Coady on today when we were winning 2-1. You don’t need a top level FA coaching licence or years of management experience to see that bringing on two defenders, defending very deep and inviting a team on, whilst showing no intention to attack is likely to end badly. 

Just look at Forest today. Much as it makes me want to vomit on my keyboard.