Steve Cooper - New Manager

[Dahnsouff]

Why do people think Cooper is not picking Ricardo? Out of spite?  

[guest123]

1 minute ago, worth_the_wait said:

Pretty good player, mind.   

yep, that could never be argued

[guest123]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Why do people think Cooper is not picking Ricardo? Out of spite?  

because he's a ****ing idiot, just like when the wally with the brolly thought it would be genius to drop david beckham

[Claudio Fannieri]

2 hours ago, The_Rorab said:

I think the biggest issue I have with Cooper isn't necessarily even down to Cooper himself - it's about us as a club.

 

Say what you want about Maresca, but it felt like we actually had a plan as a club going forward after years of stagnation under Rodgers - there was a concrete intention of playstyle, that seemed to map up with players we'd signed or already had at the club (Winks, Ricardo, Vestergaard etc), there was a real sense of momentum and whilst I know a fair few people had misgivings about the potential of Maresca in the Premier League, I at least felt like we'd have an ethos to stick to, patterns of play, playing an 11 that seemed to understand the tactics and know what to do.

 

Obviously, there's not a lot we could have done about Maresca leaving, and obviously we were hamstrung by the at the time looming PSR points deduction, but the appointment of Cooper just felt like the absolute antithesis of everything we'd just done and built. He doesn't seem to have much of a tactical plan, he has a history as Ric keeps mentioning of horrific away form, his entire ethos seems to be as far away from what we were doing last year as possible - and it just seems so self-inflicted.

 

His marginalisation of Ricardo, the 3-year contract extension to Vestergaard who didn't even make the bench against Palace, the fact that for large stints of games we seem clueless about how to even do the basics right from being a well-drilled unit, the signings of players in the profile of Bobby Reid, the complete lack of Alves in the matchday squad over Soumare, the shambolic game management against Palace of just lumping on as many defenders as possible and hoping. Obviously these aren't all equal issues, and some are subjective opinion, but there's very little that feels like Cooper is doing right currently - and I don't feel confident that he knows how to change things.

 

For some attempt at balance, I do think the grit we've shown in a few games is absolutely something to laud him for - I think he's likely a pretty good man manager and motivator. The problem is that you have to be able to pair that up with tactical ability, otherwise you end up in the Southgate scenario, and we don't have nearly as good players to compensate for a bad tactical manager as England did. I have some sympathy given that we definitely would have struggled more in the transfer window with the looming PSR threat, and I appreciate that he's only been in charge for a few games, I'd absolutely love it if we suddenly clicked and showed more signs of being a solid team, but right now I struggle to see where points come from.

 

I don't think it should come as much of a surprise that we are near the bottom for a decent chunk of statistical metrics so far this season. Yes, we're newly promoted, but many newly promoted teams manage to acquit themselves in the Premier League far better than we seem to be, and given how we played last year, it feels like there should have been groundwork for playing at lest somewhere slightly better than this.

 

Which is the frustration really - the only recourse I think people have is lashing out at Cooper himself, and I both understand and feel similarly, but it's hugely on the board as per usual as well in my opinion - we've ripped up everything good we did last year in a panic and now we're left with what seems to be a complete mishmash of personnel and tactical style which just isn't getting the best out of anything - and it just feels like such a letdown after what felt like we actually had some semblance of real long-term planning for once. 

 

I genuinely think Cooper as a bloke seems pretty decent. I don't dislike him, the way I utterly loathed Rodgers by the end, he seems like a fairly straight-talking well-meaning guy. The problem is that that isn't enough, and without success on the pitch, my patience is very thin for him being a decent bloke versus our play so far.

Absolutely magnificent post, good valid points, eloquently articulated and I think sums up my feelings 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[lcfcbluearmy]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Why do people think Cooper is not picking Ricardo? Out of spite?  

No I think he believes JJ is better, but if you look at the goals we have conceded this season  90 % of them have come down JJ's side and at least 3 have been directly his fault.

 

At this point after a player has made this many errors and you are still refusing to look at the alternative who we know is a very good player you have to wonder if Cooper is the problem

[Claudio Fannieri]

Just now, guest123 said:

because he's a ****ing idiot, just like when the wally with the brolly thought it would be genius to drop david beckham

Or when Puel thought it was the right time to leave out Vardy. 

[alfox13]

Won't play Ricardo and puts on Coady who hasn't hardly played so I have little faith in him. 

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

No I think he believes JJ is better, but if you look at the goals we have conceded this season  90 % of them have come down JJ's side and at least 3 have been directly his fault.

 

At this point after a player has made this many errors and you are still refusing to look at the alternative who we know is a very good player you have to wonder if Cooper is the problem

This is it. When JJ has been underwhelming, even in the scope of a single game and having Ricardo on the bench. Why not sub Ricardo on? It’s baffling, but not interested in baseless name calling, genuinely interested what the reason could be in Coopers mind? Must assume it’s either tactical, strength or minor injury concern that wouldn’t keep him from the bench. (No idea what such an injury could possibly be mind!) 

[Clever Fox]

32 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

There was an article recently by Graeme Souness, saying what happened when he signed for Liverpool. (Who were England's top team at the time).

 

On his first day at Anfield, he asked the manager/coach how they wanted him to play.

 

He was abruptly told "we didn't pay good money to tell you how to ****ing play football.   Work it out for yourself".

 

The good old days, eh.

 

Souness was a good player as well as dirty,  but I guess that's somewhat true of all players as individuals, I think the reference was to how to play with the ball at your feet as opposed to how you play within the team structure.  Otherwise it would end up like a kids game with everyone chasing the Ball all over the pitch.

 

But yes Football seemed so much less complicated and easier back in the old days.

[guest123]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

This is it. When JJ has been underwhelming, even in the scope of a single game and having Ricardo on the bench. Why not sub Ricardo on? It’s baffling, but not interested in baseless name calling, genuinely interested what the reason could be in Coopers mind? Must assume it’s either tactical, strength or minor injury concern that wouldn’t keep him from the bench. (No idea what such an injury could possibly be mind!) 

you really struggling with this so much? IT'S. PURE. STUBBORNNESS. FROM. COOPER.

 

either he doesn't want to admit he's got it wrong or Ricky P told him he's a ****ing idiot. it's ain't injury that's for sure, or he wouldn't have played the whole of the Tranmere game

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, guest123 said:

you really struggling with this so much? IT'S. PURE. STUBBORNNESS. FROM. COOPER.

 

either he doesn't want to admit he's got it wrong or Ricky P told him he's a ****ing idiot. it's ain't injury that's for sure, or he wouldn't have played the whole of the Tranmere game

Did you not see the bit about baseless name calling? MUST USE CAPITALS IN FUTURE.

[guest123]

6 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Souness was a good player as well as dirty,  but I guess that's somewhat true of all players as individuals, I think the reference was to how to play with the ball at your feet as opposed to how you play within the team structure.  Otherwise it would end up like a kids game with everyone chasing the Ball all over the pitch.

 

But yes Football seemed so much less complicated and easier back in the old days.

we used to have some belting games on the park and all pretty much played where we was supposed to as appointed by the captains, we had to unless we wanting a kick in from the big kids 

[guest123]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Did you not see the bit about baseless name calling? MUST USE CAPITALS IN FUTURE.

you can use whatever you want, i'll also use whatever language i feel like so don't try to moderate me squire. i've answered your point, answer it/disagree/agree if you want, if not.. meh

Edited Tuesday at 20:00 by guest123
typo

[MPH]

18 minutes ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

No I think he believes JJ is better, but if you look at the goals we have conceded this season  90 % of them have come down JJ's side and at least 3 have been directly his fault.

 

At this point after a player has made this many errors and you are still refusing to look at the alternative who we know is a very good player you have to wonder if Cooper is the problem

 

he believes he is better defensively. Which is indeed bizarre..

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, guest123 said:

you can use whatever you want, i'll also use whatever language i feel like so don't try to moderate me squire. i've answered you point, answer it/disagree/agree if you want, if not.. meh

You haven’t answered my question even remotely 

You did what I specifically said I did not want, your childish name calling….

 

Do me a favour, block me, you clearly have nothing useful to contribute. 

[guest123]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

You haven’t answered my question even remotely 

You did what I specifically said I did not want, your childish name calling….

 

Do me a favour, block me, you clearly have nothing useful to contribute. 

I've told you, it's pure stubbornness on Cooper's side, either he can't back down from getting it wrong or he's already got an agenda like Rodgers had with Cags, either of which, makes him a ****ing idiot. and to highlight again, it is not an injury or he wouldn;t have played the whole of the Tranmere game... 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, guest123 said:

I've told you, it's pure stubbornness on Cooper's side, either he can't back down from getting it wrong or he's already got an agenda like Rodgers had with Cags, either of which, makes him a ****ing idiot. and to highlight again, it is not an injury or he wouldn;t have played the whole of the Tranmere game... 

Just wonder if it could be tactical, I know plenty are not keen on Cooper (no Forest accusations) but not picking Ricardo seems self defeating if Ricardo is anywhere near his best. Cooper has proven not to be irredeemably stubborn as he picked Stephy last game (Although you could argue that was because assumed favourite BDCR was not back from internationals….)

[Clever Fox]

3 minutes ago, guest123 said:

we used to have some belting games on the park and all pretty much played where we was supposed to as appointed by the captains, we had to unless we wanting a kick in from the big kids 

Yes I remember playing in such games. I remember a league match at under 10s, It was a tight game 1-1 and the other team scored a winner.

When the Keeper was asked why he didn't try to save it. He said I was looking at the Helicopter passing over and forgot about the game.  

 

This was another incident that happened the same season.MThe referee called a drop ball. He had the Whistle in his mouth and when he blew and dropped the ball our player lashed at it as it dropped and hit the referee striaght in the face. He lost his 4 front Teeth that day.

 

The things you remember from years ago.

[guest123]

9 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Just wonder if it could be tactical, I know plenty are not keen on Cooper (no Forest accusations) but not picking Ricardo seems self defeating if Ricardo is anywhere near his best. Cooper has proven not to be irredeemably stubborn as he picked Stephy last game (Although you could argue that was because assumed favourite BDCR was not back from internationals….)

if it is then he's even more tactically inept than first feared. i think cooper made the call very early in. think it was the Shrewsbury game where Ricky was used as a high right back but hardly went forward or backwards, and the ball certainly didn't go near him. he looked dejected that game and Ricky has never been like that for us. knew he wouldn't get away with blanking a senior player and fans favourite for the tranmere game as well though

[FoxFossil]

Note to Cooper.

Liverpool winning just brought on '2 subs for fresh legs upfront, as they know Milan will come on to them, and leave gaps at the back.'

Edited Tuesday at 20:41 by FoxFossil

[5waller5]

1 hour ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Or when Puel thought it was the right time to leave out Vardy. 

I wonder if that acted as a wake up call to the GOAT and is one of the reasons he became so interested in recovery??

 

Not suggesting that was on Puel’s mind, but it may have made Jamie think differently 

[Lambert09]

now that some of the psr dust has settled, it’s clear to me that our squad is good enough to survive. 

 

it’s gone from an impossible job to something achievable. The free pass cooper probably thought he’d get on this is gone and he won’t get another prem job if he gets sacked with us sat in the relegation zone. 

 

Even though corberan was so clearly the best fit in the summer, I think a mid season change would not be ideal for him. Is he going to be able to jump in and fight the fires with someone else’s squad? That’s a risk and probably one he won’t take while riding high with west brom. 
 

For me, and i said this post brendan as well, rafa would be the one id back to get the job done. With a focus on defensive football being implemented, he’d probably be the compromise that could work for us. Very attainable as well after a lack lustre stint at celta vigo 

[Happy Fox]

4 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

now that some of the psr dust has settled, it’s clear to me that our squad is good enough to survive. 

 

it’s gone from an impossible job to something achievable. The free pass cooper probably thought he’d get on this is gone and he won’t get another prem job if he gets sacked with us sat in the relegation zone. 

 

Even though corberan was so clearly the best fit in the summer, I think a mid season change would not be ideal for him. Is he going to be able to jump in and fight the fires with someone else’s squad? That’s a risk and probably one he won’t take while riding high with west brom. 
 

For me, and i said this post brendan as well, rafa would be the one id back to get the job done. With a focus on defensive football being implemented, he’d probably be the compromise that could work for us. Very attainable as well after a lack lustre stint at celta vigo 

 

https://www.footballinsider247.com/leeds-exclusive-carlos-corberans-west-brom-release-clause-revealed/

[Sunbury Fox]

The Ricardo thing is genuinely baffling. On Saturday VK stayed back more, whilst Justin played higher with Ayew tucking inside (the average position map confirms this). So the argument that Justin has been preferred because he can tuck in as a 3rd centre back doesn't even apply as surely Ricardo would offer more than Justin in this more attacking role?

 

On the face of it, it also seems unlikely that Ricardo would have fallen out with Cooper personally, given that Cooper seems to be a good man manager and Ricardo seems to be the archetypal professional. But Ricardo is a highly technical player and loved playing under Maresca, so is it possible that he may have voiced concerns about the less sophisticated playing style that we now seem to be deploying, upsetting Cooper in the process?  

 

Either way, Cooper is clearly cutting off his nose to spite his face in not using Ricardo even as a sub. Will be fascinating to see how things play out moving forward; would be a real shame if Ricardo's time at the club ended in the way that Cags' time did.

 

[FLAN]

I speak weekly with a forest fan through work. Always a good 15-20 mins on football

hrs a massive cooper fan like a lot of them. he said the away form was a lot to do with his negative approach aaay form home. He also said it’s stark how much more tactically astute Nunos team is compared to Coopers time.