Steve Cooper - New Manager

[Tanya]

We are not staying up with Steve Cooper.

 

Disaster manager. Woeful appointment by the club.

[phoneticerror]

59 minutes ago, It'sblueupnorth said:

What happens when Everton turn us over at home next week are we allowed to want him out then or will it be we’re 5 games in give him chance?

If we draw 2-2 or lose to Everton, I’m done.

[Ric Flair]

Right, I'm going to try and be as objective as possible. He's a certain type of manager, he's managed to distill in to this squad a certain amount of fight, which is a basic requirement but should at least be recognised.

 

We certainly aren't completely abject like I've seen us, for example in the latter parts of the Rodgers regime or Puel etc. However, this should be the honeymoon period so there's still plenty of time for that. 

 

Tactically he is scaring me. If you're going to deploy essentially 7-8 defense minded players in games or only utilise any creativity when chasing games then you best get results otherwise the criticism is going to come in waves. I'm not interested in us having to play this type of football, with this personnel to only concede nearly 2 goals a game and on average score once a game. 

 

I was really impressed with the 1st half and there were plenty of positives. However it became quite clear that the sacrifice of deploying 3 defensive midfielders, with one expected to advance is that you need two explosive wingers to capitalise, otherwise it becomes a bit too limited. Or if you're going to go with one of Ayew or Reid then at the very least a creative central midfielder is needed in El Khannouss or Bounanotte. 

 

Despite going this cautious, we've still shipped goals. They've almost exclusively all come down the right hand side and yet Ricardo remains completely ignored. For the 2nd away game running, we've essentially not had a single shot after that fortunate 2nd goal almost right from kick off. If this is what the result is of such caution then I'm not interested. This is not what I watch football for. If we'd held on to the win I'd have been relieved of getting a crucial win but I'd still have been uneasy at the substitutions. We had 8 out of 10 outfield players that were defenders or defensive midfielders. I honestly don't even think Tony Pulis or Gary Megson has pulled that sort of shit before. 

 

I don't understand what he was trying to achieve as it was evident he'd disregarded any notion of trying to put the game to bed. Tactical terrorism. 

 

He's shown his hand already. I'm left querying why he was getting so angry about not being able to land attacking midfielders. Their role under Cooper is to have to come on in games we're losing and see if they can salvage something. It's bleak. Alarm bells should have been ringing vs Spurs when we had them on the back foot after equalising and then he took Bounanotte off for Soumare and killed our entire momentum. 

 

Many will say we were a Coady brain fart away from the perfect away performance, I couldn't disagree more and to be honest it didn't happen and so questions then get asked. We'd invited them on for over half an hour. Nketiah inches from equalising, Eze close but for a excellent block from Okoli and frantic challenges in the area from Fatawu and Kristiansen. It was far from a sucker punch at the death. It's no coincidence how appalling his record is as a manager in the PL and especially away from home, he's mastered how not to win football matches.

 

I am however, getting a bit more belief regarding our squad. I think there's a nucleus of a capable team here and hopefully our board have the vision that they've made a mistake on Cooper and act. 

 

 

[inckley fox]

15 minutes ago, Thefox81 said:

19 games without a win in the premier league. He is not a premier league quality manager.

Four games for us. Some of which have been promising. If we judged every manager on the basis of how they'd been doing in their previous appointment then Ranieri would have been gone before the season started.

[Mark]

8 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

We had 8 out of 10 outfield players that were defenders or defensive midfielders. I honestly don't even think Tony Pulis or Gary Megson has pulled that sort of shit before.

It was his speciality, it did work once https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/history/matches/?mid=195

 

But this is what Cooper is doing, setting us up like a lower league team in the cup. No one takes Cooper off us though.

[Claudio Fannieri]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Right, I'm going to try and be as objective as possible. He's a certain type of manager, he's managed to distill in to this squad a certain amount of fight, which is a basic requirement but should at least be recognised.

 

We certainly aren't completely abject like I've seen us, for example in the latter parts of the Rodgers regime or Puel etc. However, this should be the honeymoon period so there's still plenty of time for that. 

 

Tactically he is scaring me. If you're going to deploy essentially 7-8 defense minded players in games or only utilise any creativity when chasing games then you best get results otherwise the criticism is going to come in waves. I'm not interested in us having to play this type of football, with this personnel to only concede nearly 2 goals a game and on average score once a game. 

 

I was really impressed with the 1st half and there were plenty of positives. However it became quite clear that the sacrifice of deploying 3 defensive midfielders, with one expected to advance is that you need two explosive wingers to capitalise, otherwise it becomes a bit too limited. Or if you're going to go with one of Ayew or Reid then at the very least a creative central midfielder is needed in El Khannouss or Bounanotte. 

 

Despite going this cautious, we've still shipped goals. They've almost exclusively all come down the right hand side and yet Ricardo remains completely ignored. For the 2nd away game running, we've essentially not had a single shot after that fortunate 2nd goal almost right from kick off. If this is what the result is of such caution then I'm not interested. This is not what I watch football for. If we'd held on to the win I'd have been relieved of getting a crucial win but I'd still have been uneasy at the substitutions. We had 8 out of 10 outfield players that were defenders or defensive midfielders. I honestly don't even think Tony Pulis or Gary Megson has pulled that sort of shit before. 

 

I don't understand what he was trying to achieve as it was evident he'd disregarded any notion of trying to put the game to bed. Tactical terrorism. 

 

He's shown his hand already. I'm left querying why he was getting so angry about not being able to land attacking midfielders. Their role under Cooper is to have to come on in games we're losing and see if they can salvage something. It's bleak. Alarm bells should have been ringing vs Spurs when we had them on the back foot after equalising and then he took Bounanotte off for Soumare and killed our entire momentum. 

 

Many will say we were a Coady brain fart away from the perfect away performance, I couldn't disagree more and to be honest it didn't happen and so questions then get asked. We'd invited them on for over half an hour. Nketiah inches from equalising, Eze close but for a excellent block from Okoli and frantic challenges in the area from Fatawu and Kristiansen. It was far from a sucker punch at the death. It's no coincidence how appalling his record is as a manager in the PL and especially away from home, he's mastered how not to win football matches.

 

I am however, getting a bit more belief regarding our squad. I think there's a nucleus of a capable team here and hopefully our board have the vision that they've made a mistake on Cooper and act. 

 

 

Great post, this is a more than capable squad of finishing anywhere from 11th downwards, depending on how it’s managed, my concern is with Cooper at the helm we will end up 19th with a mountain of regrets of what might/could have been. 

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Mark said:

It was his speciality, it did work once https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/history/matches/?mid=195

 

But this is what Cooper is doing, setting us up like a lower league team in the cup. No one takes Cooper off us though. 

Hahahahaa fantastic investigative work

[sylofox]

Can someone email him and explain attacking is the best form of defence.

 

I'm not sure he would read my version.

[Mark]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Hahahahaa fantastic investigative work

Unfortunately I don’t forget these moments, still remember the Megson for Bolton chants during his last match here

[Jakemoore]

3 hours ago, v6rat said:

Your right for maybe the first time, it is a team game, the team is told what to do by the appointed manager. It doesn't matter whether it is football or any other workplace environment, the buck stops with the manager.

 

I'll say it again, Cooper has not won a Premier League match in this last 19 attempts, if you believe that statistic is not down to him then it is you that is naive and tunnel visioned.   

I’ve been right a lot. You just don’t agree 😂

[Mike the Metal Ed]

6 minutes ago, Mark said:

It was his speciality, it did work once https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/history/matches/?mid=195

 

But this is what Cooper is doing, setting us up like a lower league team in the cup. No one takes Cooper off us though. 

Even that game we were hanging on for dear life and Patrik Berger had a free kick late on in the game that made me certain that was the end of it.

Edited Saturday at 20:44 by Mike the Metal Ed

[cropstonfox]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Right, I'm going to try and be as objective as possible. He's a certain type of manager, he's managed to distill in to this squad a certain amount of fight, which is a basic requirement but should at least be recognised.

 

We certainly aren't completely abject like I've seen us, for example in the latter parts of the Rodgers regime or Puel etc. However, this should be the honeymoon period so there's still plenty of time for that. 

 

Tactically he is scaring me. If you're going to deploy essentially 7-8 defense minded players in games or only utilise any creativity when chasing games then you best get results otherwise the criticism is going to come in waves. I'm not interested in us having to play this type of football, with this personnel to only concede nearly 2 goals a game and on average score once a game. 

 

I was really impressed with the 1st half and there were plenty of positives. However it became quite clear that the sacrifice of deploying 3 defensive midfielders, with one expected to advance is that you need two explosive wingers to capitalise, otherwise it becomes a bit too limited. Or if you're going to go with one of Ayew or Reid then at the very least a creative central midfielder is needed in El Khannouss or Bounanotte. 

 

Despite going this cautious, we've still shipped goals. They've almost exclusively all come down the right hand side and yet Ricardo remains completely ignored. For the 2nd away game running, we've essentially not had a single shot after that fortunate 2nd goal almost right from kick off. If this is what the result is of such caution then I'm not interested. This is not what I watch football for. If we'd held on to the win I'd have been relieved of getting a crucial win but I'd still have been uneasy at the substitutions. We had 8 out of 10 outfield players that were defenders or defensive midfielders. I honestly don't even think Tony Pulis or Gary Megson has pulled that sort of shit before. 

 

I don't understand what he was trying to achieve as it was evident he'd disregarded any notion of trying to put the game to bed. Tactical terrorism. 

 

He's shown his hand already. I'm left querying why he was getting so angry about not being able to land attacking midfielders. Their role under Cooper is to have to come on in games we're losing and see if they can salvage something. It's bleak. Alarm bells should have been ringing vs Spurs when we had them on the back foot after equalising and then he took Bounanotte off for Soumare and killed our entire momentum. 

 

Many will say we were a Coady brain fart away from the perfect away performance, I couldn't disagree more and to be honest it didn't happen and so questions then get asked. We'd invited them on for over half an hour. Nketiah inches from equalising, Eze close but for a excellent block from Okoli and frantic challenges in the area from Fatawu and Kristiansen. It was far from a sucker punch at the death. It's no coincidence how appalling his record is as a manager in the PL and especially away from home, he's mastered how not to win football matches.

 

I am however, getting a bit more belief regarding our squad. I think there's a nucleus of a capable team here and hopefully our board have the vision that they've made a mistake on Cooper and act. 

 

 

What's the big love in with Ricardo?

If he was fit and performing any manager

Would play him.pretty obvious that his legs are no more.Too may injuries,Steve trying to keep him involved 

 

[leicesterlad1989]

5 minutes ago, cropstonfox said:

What's the big love in with Ricardo?

If he was fit and performing any manager

Would play him.pretty obvious that his legs are no more.Too may injuries,Steve trying to keep him involved 

 

Or it's the shitty system that Cooper is using. 

 

Cooper should be finding a system that fits the best players available. He seemingly won't start Fatawu and Mavididi together either. 

 

If Ricardo's legs have gone, which I don't believe they have, then we need to promote a youth player as Justin isn't good enough. 

[sylofox]

7 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

Four games for us. Some of which have been promising. If we judged every manager on the basis of how they'd been doing in their previous appointment then Ranieri would have been gone before the season started.

It's not just the results. It's team selection and substitutions. Playing 7/8 defensive players. Allowing them to continually come at us was only going to end the way it did or worse. Enough people on here can see this and we ain't all wrong.

 

His tactics are as daft as Rodgers tactics were boring. Just like Rodgers he continues to do the same thing hoping for a different outcome.

 

We can either make a noise now and hope for change, if only his tactics. Or sit by plod on until it's to late.

[Tommy Fresh]

18 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

Four games for us. Some of which have been promising. If we judged every manager on the basis of how they'd been doing in their previous appointment then Ranieri would have been gone before the season started.

Not really relevant, this is very recent in the same league

[worthosoriginals]

21 minutes ago, sylofox said:

Can someone email him and explain attacking is the best form of defence.

 

I'm not sure he would read my version.

He would google the word attack and think nah not doing any of that it would leave us wide open for a huge loss

[inckley fox]

3 minutes ago, sylofox said:

It's not just the results. It's team selection and substitutions. Playing 7/8 defensive players. Allowing them to continually come at us was only going to end the way it did or worse. Enough people on here can see this and we ain't all wrong.

 

His tactics are as daft as Rodgers tactics were boring. Just like Rodgers he continues to do the same thing hoping for a different outcome.

 

We can either make a noise now and hope for change, if only his tactics. Or sit by plod on until it's to late.

I'd tend to agree with you. I thought the line-up was too negative - but I was wrong. I thought the subs were far too negative, and perhaps I did better on that score. But the takeaway from all of this is that what seems obvious to us is not necessarily right.

 

In general, it's absurd to be calling for the manager's head in the first 10-12 fixtures. In our case, the circumstances weren't easy either. We've been very competitive in all of the games, we're not in the drop zone, and surely we knew that there'd be things we agree with, things which work out, and things which don't. I have no idea how people are baying for blood based on what we've seen.

 

We all know that some great managers have lousy starts (Wallace, Milne, O'Neill, Pearson mk2 etc.) and some lousy managers have great starts (Hamilton, Pleat, Taylor, Levein, Kelly, poor old Sven and so on). I don't understand the tidal wave of negativity about a first few fixtures which haven't fallen below expectations, and have offered plenty of promise.

[worthosoriginals]

41 minutes ago, phoneticerror said:

If we draw 2-2 or lose to Everton, I’m done.

On the plus side a loss or draw shows we've been consistent so far this season

[inckley fox]

In retrospect we can take the view that this was right, or this was wrong.

 

But those people saying that the manager made schoolboy errors which absolutely no competent boss would ever make were, in most cases, also saying that the line-up - which, it turned out, he got spot on - was substandard.

 

So let's accept that we're not always in the right, that the decision-making wasn't as amateurish as we might have taken it to be, and that we ended up with a decent point. And hopefully we'll improve over time, as many of our finest managers have needed to.

 

I have plenty of reservations, but there's nothing which comes close to suggesting that we should be at panic stations. We're not even in the relegation zone for a start, and given that 17th would represent a perfectly successful season, I can only surmise that some people aren't being rational about all of this.

 

Four games. Jesus. Doesn't anyone remember what happened at the beginning of some of our most successful managers' tenures?

[orangecity23]

12 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

In retrospect we can take the view that this was right, or this was wrong.

 

But those people saying that the manager made schoolboy errors which absolutely no competent boss would ever make were, in most cases, also saying that the line-up - which, it turned out, he got spot on - was substandard.

 

So let's accept that we're not always in the right, that the decision-making wasn't as amateurish as we might have taken it to be, and that we ended up with a decent point. And hopefully we'll improve over time, as many of our finest managers have needed to.

 

I have plenty of reservations, but there's nothing which comes close to suggesting that we should be at panic stations. We're not even in the relegation zone for a start, and given that 17th would represent a perfectly successful season, I can only surmise that some people aren't being rational about all of this.

 

Four games. Jesus. Doesn't anyone remember what happened at the beginning of some of our most successful managers' tenures?

A bit of quick googling / using the history section suggests this only really applies to Martin O'Neill. Ranieri won his first game vs Sunderland and started well, Pearson got off to a good start in both spells. Brian Little won his second game. O'Neill took over mid-season, didn't have an entire pre-season to get his team up to speed, but drew 5 and lost 2 in his first 7 before getting his first win. Which is still a better record than Cooper so far in the league. Rodgers won his second league game, Maresca won his first. Unless you had some older examples in mind, I'm struggling to think of any half successful managers here in the modern era who've had a worse start than Cooper.

[sylofox]

36 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

I'd tend to agree with you. I thought the line-up was too negative - but I was wrong. I thought the subs were far too negative, and perhaps I did better on that score. But the takeaway from all of this is that what seems obvious to us is not necessarily right.

 

In general, it's absurd to be calling for the manager's head in the first 10-12 fixtures. In our case, the circumstances weren't easy either. We've been very competitive in all of the games, we're not in the drop zone, and surely we knew that there'd be things we agree with, things which work out, and things which don't. I have no idea how people are baying for blood based on what we've seen.

 

We all know that some great managers have lousy starts (Wallace, Milne, O'Neill, Pearson mk2 etc.) and some lousy managers have great starts (Hamilton, Pleat, Taylor, Levein, Kelly, poor old Sven and so on). I don't understand the tidal wave of negativity about a first few fixtures which haven't fallen below expectations, and have offered plenty of promise.

I was getting pelted in here just after Xmas in the great escape season for saying we would stay up and NFP would keep us up. I really don't see that with cooper.

 

Was just bits missing back then we'll Huth mainly. This is a clueless manager that like Rodgers I don't see changing.

[sylofox]

Be interesting to put up an in out more time needed poll now. Then again next Saturday if we lose or draw to Everton. Then see what the results are.

 

I think it will be a big change.

[don_danbury]

guys we are a newly promoted side. we should be happy with no wins yet and crappy subs. be realistic

we were in league one 20 years ago dont forget

Edited Saturday at 21:54 by don_danbury

[sylofox]

1 minute ago, don_danbury said:

guys we are a newly promoted side. we should be happy with no wins yet and crappy subs. be realistic

we were in league one 20 years ago dont forget

 Then feck of back then if it makes you happy 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, cropstonfox said:

What's the big love in with Ricardo?

If he was fit and performing any manager

Would play him.pretty obvious that his legs are no more.Too may injuries,Steve trying to keep him involved 

 

Hmmmm perhaps that he's technically one of our best players, who's ability to keep hold of the ball is a massive asset and is currently sidelined to a player that nearly every single goal we have conceded has come down his side and is being deployed as a less advanced up and down for 90 minutes full back.

 

But yeah, not sure mate