Steve Cooper - New Manager

[Happy Fox]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Let's be honest, we aren't sacking him this early. We should, we absolutely should. 

 

But we'll think we're being sensible to keep him and give him time. 

 

He could probably get to November without a win and still keep his job. 

 

Player power could force Top’s hand to sack him earlier. It’s clear there is some disgruntlement from some players.

[LcFc_Smiv]

8 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Player power could force Top’s hand to sack him earlier. It’s clear there is some disgruntlement from some players.

I'm not saying this isn't the case but where is it clear? Minus a daily express/sun article with no source? Apologies if I have missed something.

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Player power could force Top’s hand to sack him earlier. It’s clear there is some disgruntlement from some players.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's more popular in the squad than you think. 

 

JJ and VK are back playing in their preferred positions, Ayew and BDCR are likely smart enough and experienced enough to know an actual progressive manager drops them immediately, Vards is playing and scoring, cheerleader Coady seems to have no expectation of playing he just wants to hang around with the lads. 

 

Plus, he's just a reasonably likeable human being. He won over most of the fans that went to the Q&A just by being humble and relatable. 

 

They probably like him as a human being. 

 

[Happy Fox]

22 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's more popular in the squad than you think. 

 

JJ and VK are back playing in their preferred positions, Ayew and BDCR are likely smart enough and experienced enough to know an actual progressive manager drops them immediately, Vards is playing and scoring, cheerleader Coady seems to have no expectation of playing he just wants to hang around with the lads. 

 

Plus, he's just a reasonably likeable human being. He won over most of the fans that went to the Q&A just by being humble and relatable. 

 

They probably like him as a human being. 

 

He can be likeable and pally, but footballers want to win games and we aren’t winning too many with Cooper in charge.

[Fox92]

34 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Player power could force Top’s hand to sack him earlier. It’s clear there is some disgruntlement from some players.

Where is it clear? 

[guest123]

20 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Because a player made a awful error.

 

We won the PL by sitting in.

 

It not waht you do it's how well you do it.

 

 

 

 

And you have no idea if he hadn’t they would have scored anyway, it certainly looked like a goal was coming. And if you think we’ve played anything remotely similar to when we won the league i suspect a trip to specsavers might be on the cards 

[Happy Fox]

18 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Where is it clear? 

Not clear as per say but doesn’t take a genius to realise the likes of Ricardo who have been Alienated are far from happy.

[ForestAreMagic]

14 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Absolutely nothing to do with that, although I question the boards decision to make his job harder if he got off to a poor start (which we have)

 

He's just an appalling manager at this level. We make it one win in the last 17 PL games for Cooper, absolutely wild. Did he used to field 7 defense minded players at you lot and then bring another 1-2 on? He gobbed off all summer about not having any creative midfielders and then he's got 3 of them and has shown he only wants them to come on in games when we're losing.

 

He played 3 defensive midfielders at home to a League Two team in the cup 😂😂😂😂 the bloke makes Roy Cropper seems like an adrenaline junkie. 

 

Also, where's this myth he's an advocate of youth come from an'all? Complete disregard for our academy and seems irked he's not had more unnecessary PL experienced players brought in for him.

 

Cannot believe he kept you up, just shows how abysmal we were that year to be fair.

 

Some of his stats to go along with that 1/17 make for grim reading too. 9 games out of 59 in the PL, his teams have conceded in the last 10 mins to throw points away, 6 of which his team were leading but lost to goals in the last 10. 4 times from 2+ goals to the good his teams have thrown points away in the dying moments. I'm sure you remember the Luton, Bournemouth, Burnley, Brentford etc games. 

 

Tactical terrorism.

Largely agree with you on the youth point.  He obviously played Gibbs-White and Johnson once we got promoted, but they were outstanding.  Beyond that he went for a mixture of Champo and top division experience.  When we got to

midseason it was all about signing serious experience like Navas, Wood and Felipe.

He did a good job for us in season 1 in the PL as he had to build a team 95% from scratch.  How he did in season 2 will always be up for debate amongst our fanbase.

 

I never understood where the idea came from that Cooper didn’t want all the signings we made.  He constantly spoke to the press about how we needed to strengthen.

Most of our fans would have stuck with Cooper in season 1 even if we’d been relegated.  Obvs your expectations are very different as you’re an established PL team.  

[The Doctor]

50 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's more popular in the squad than you think. 

 

JJ and VK are back playing in their preferred positions, Ayew and BDCR are likely smart enough and experienced enough to know an actual progressive manager drops them immediately, Vards is playing and scoring, cheerleader Coady seems to have no expectation of playing he just wants to hang around with the lads. 

 

Plus, he's just a reasonably likeable human being. He won over most of the fans that went to the Q&A just by being humble and relatable. 

 

They probably like him as a human being. 

 

unfortunately this is probably true. like, who is he gonna be unpopular with? Ricardo and the wingers probably (Bilal and Facundo signed under him so will leave them out for now). only one who is gonna have reasonable sway is Ricky. 

[Nickaj]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Let's be honest, we aren't sacking him this early. We should, we absolutely 

 

I think though that such decisive action at this early stage - no matter how well merited - would require a level of involvement, decisiveness and clear thinking that is seemingly entirely beyond the capability of any of the senior management currently at the club.

[Guppys Love Child]

13 hours ago, Sly said:

If Chelsea sacked Maresca, then we sack Cooper.

 

Would you welcome Maresca back? 

Oh god no...

 

 I'm still of the opinion that Enzo and his EnzoBall was was found out towards the back end of the season, hence our healthy lead was eaten in to and the drop in performance and positive results.

 

With our current crop of players his "Philosophy" still wouldn't work.

 

But the major thing for me is "There is no way on god's green earth" that I could sit through the mind numbing, boring to watch, lacking any entertainment, training ground pass fest of EnzoBall.  Not for a second time, no.

[Fox92]

13 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Not clear as per say but doesn’t take a genius to realise the likes of Ricardo who have been Alienated are far from happy.

I mean, most players aren't gonna be happy if they're not playing but I haven't seen anything to suggest Ricardo isn't happy. People are going off of articles.

 

One of the first things he did at Forest was turn the players around and change mentality. I think he's a decent man manager and probably likeable. 

[TrentFox]

2 hours ago, beepee1984 said:

I heard it last week, senior players do not like Coopers "Hands Off" approach. Enzo was telling all players exactly what he wanted at all times, where as Cooper leaves them to think for themselves more.

 

I have to believe there is some truth to it - Vestegaard being dropped from the squad with no reason, Ricci not playing a single minute so far - it feels like something else is going on and I've not heard any players speak supportively of the new manager - last season all they talked about was how Enzo had changed things since he came in

Is that first-hand info, or are you distilling what’s in the press? 🤔

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, beepee1984 said:

I heard it last week, senior players do not like Coopers "Hands Off" approach. Enzo was telling all players exactly what he wanted at all times, where as Cooper leaves them to think for themselves more.

 

I have to believe there is some truth to it - Vestegaard being dropped from the squad with no reason, Ricci not playing a single minute so far - it feels like something else is going on and I've not heard any players speak supportively of the new manager - last season all they talked about was how Enzo had changed things since he came in

Vestergaard deserved dropping for the first goal we conceded at Fulham.

 

Not that I'm backing Cooper but the players are top flight/second tier players on a good wage. They shouldn't need telling everything at all times. 

[Ric Flair]

31 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

Largely agree with you on the youth point.  He obviously played Gibbs-White and Johnson once we got promoted, but they were outstanding.  Beyond that he went for a mixture of Champo and top division experience.  When we got to

midseason it was all about signing serious experience like Navas, Wood and Felipe.

He did a good job for us in season 1 in the PL as he had to build a team 95% from scratch.  How he did in season 2 will always be up for debate amongst our fanbase.

 

I never understood where the idea came from that Cooper didn’t want all the signings we made.  He constantly spoke to the press about how we needed to strengthen.

Most of our fans would have stuck with Cooper in season 1 even if we’d been relegated.  Obvs your expectations are very different as you’re an established PL team.  

Which is what makes his appointment so strange. Our club has spent the last decade trying to build the foundations of an excellent academy and I dread to think what financial position we'd be in if we hadn't generated £120m on Chilwell, Barnes and KDH in the last 4 seasons. 

 

We now have a manager obsessed with Premier League experience and we change course once again. Let's hope it doesn't do any long term damage.

 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, beepee1984 said:

I heard it last week, senior players do not like Coopers "Hands Off" approach. Enzo was telling all players exactly what he wanted at all times, where as Cooper leaves them to think for themselves more.

 

I have to believe there is some truth to it - Vestegaard being dropped from the squad with no reason, Ricci not playing a single minute so far - it feels like something else is going on and I've not heard any players speak supportively of the new manager - last season all they talked about was how Enzo had changed things since he came in

And there I was naively thinking players could think for themselves.

 

We truly are in the age of robotic football.

[Happy Fox]

24 minutes ago, Guppys Love Child said:

Oh god no...

 

 I'm still of the opinion that Enzo and his EnzoBall was was found out towards the back end of the season, hence our healthy lead was eaten in to and the drop in performance and positive results.

 

With our current crop of players his "Philosophy" still wouldn't work.

 

But the major thing for me is "There is no way on god's green earth" that I could sit through the mind numbing, boring to watch, lacking any entertainment, training ground pass fest of EnzoBall.  Not for a second time, no.

We would be far better off in the table with Enzo in charge compared to Cooper.
 

[honeybradger]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Which is what makes his appointment so strange. Our club has spent the last decade trying to build the foundations of an excellent academy and I dread to think what financial position we'd be in if we hadn't generated £120m on Chilwell, Barnes and KDH in the last 4 seasons. 

 

We now have a manager obsessed with Premier League experience and we change course once again. Let's hope it doesn't do any long term damage.

 

I fear that it already has, we have to pay Bobby Reid and Ayew's wages for the next 3 years, no chance we are going to be able to offload them. Will Alves isn't even getting on the bench for us, his treatment under Cooper reminds me of O'Riley's under Scott Parker at Fulham. Sadly for him he didn't see the signs during pre season and wasn't smart enough to run down his contract with us like O'Riley did at Fulham.

[CosbehFox]

11 minutes ago, Matt said:

And there I was naively thinking players could think for themselves.

 

We truly are in the age of robotic football.

I don't think it's so much that. 

 

Enzo was 'this is my plan, look how it works' 

 

Copper is appearing more I don't have much of a plan, what about if we do this? 

 

It's more about leadership, trust and intelligence than outright tactics. 

 

Enzo wasn't overly popular towards the end. That said I don't think Cooper is unpopular - it's probably one or two players having a moan (or their agents) - there's lots of moan about, the players are trying. 

Edited Monday at 09:28 by CosbehFox

[James_lcfc]

29 minutes ago, Guppys Love Child said:

Oh god no...

 

 I'm still of the opinion that Enzo and his EnzoBall was was found out towards the back end of the season, hence our healthy lead was eaten in to and the drop in performance and positive results.

 

With our current crop of players his "Philosophy" still wouldn't work.

 

But the major thing for me is "There is no way on god's green earth" that I could sit through the mind numbing, boring to watch, lacking any entertainment, training ground pass fest of EnzoBall.  Not for a second time, no.

A lot of last season was incredibly boring, I'll agree with you on that.

 

But it wouldn't be the case in the Premier League as there wouldn't be a single team who would camp in their own half against us.

 

If he had this squad as it is now, he would play Winks/Skipp sitting, two high 8's in El Khannouss/Bounanotte/Ndidi, two wingers in Mavididi/Fatawu/Ayew and rotate Vardy and Edouard up front.

 

We'd concede goals trying to play out from the back obviously, but it would be so much better than the shit we're watching now, I'm sure of it.

[Gubbins]

1 hour ago, Happy Fox said:

He can be likeable and pally, but footballers want to win games and we aren’t winning too many with Cooper in charge.

We aren't winning too many regardless of who's in charge. In this situation better to have a likable bloke than someone just obsessed with football theory like maresca or rodgers.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's more popular in the squad than you think. 

 

JJ and VK are back playing in their preferred positions, Ayew and BDCR are likely smart enough and experienced enough to know an actual progressive manager drops them immediately, Vards is playing and scoring, cheerleader Coady seems to have no expectation of playing he just wants to hang around with the lads. 

 

Plus, he's just a reasonably likeable human being. He won over most of the fans that went to the Q&A just by being humble and relatable. 

 

They probably like him as a human being. 

 

I think what probably changes it, is that Cooper is clearly a PSR appointment, and now that’s changed slightly given the recent news…. Cooper seems a lovely bloke, but lovely blokes just won’t cut it this season and I can’t see the senior players being happy with his decisions so far. Lose to Everton with more poor decisions and their hands could be forced. 

[Gubbins]

9 minutes ago, James_lcfc said:

A lot of last season was incredibly boring, I'll agree with you on that.

 

But it wouldn't be the case in the Premier League as there wouldn't be a single team who would camp in their own half against us.

 

If he had this squad as it is now, he would play Winks/Skipp sitting, two high 8's in El Khannouss/Bounanotte/Ndidi, two wingers in Mavididi/Fatawu/Ayew and rotate Vardy and Edouard up front.

 

We'd concede goals trying to play out from the back obviously, but it would be so much better than the shit we're watching now, I'm sure of it.

You underestimate how much better prem teams are. Burnley fans probably thought something similar last season and they were relegated with barely a whimper. We'd get the odd shock result but by and large we'd consistently be carved open on the counter and pressed into mistakes. Plus our style would remain coma inducing but without the good results to cover it up.

[Grebfromgrebland]

The thing is that we could have got more out of each game we've played so far with a bit of luck or better decision making.

 

Do we think Cooper can adapt and get that extra few percent needed?

 

I also think Ricardo has said something or done something to get dropped.  No manager would drop Ricardo without good reason.

[boots60]

2 points lost against palace was not Coopers fault. An unbelievable reversal of the lino's correct decision & a moment of stupidity by Coady was the reason we didn't come away with a win.

Early days, give Cooper more time & see where we are in a few weeks.