Steve Cooper - New Manager

[James_lcfc]

7 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

You underestimate how much better prem teams are. Burnley fans probably thought something similar last season and they were relegated with barely a whimper. We'd get the odd shock result but by and large we'd consistently be carved open on the counter and pressed into mistakes. Plus our style would remain coma inducing but without the good results to cover it up.

True, they are definitely much better.

 

...but I watched Palace on Saturday give the ball away so many times, it was like being back in the Championship - Even we were able to score twice against them!

 

There are opportunities to take three points against a lot of teams this year, but we will need a bit of attacking threat and belief.

[dr.o.ball]

35 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

We would be far better off in the table with Enzo in charge compared to Cooper.
 

We'd have been on the end of a couple 4.0 spankings with Enzo this season, just saying. 

[Happy Fox]

15 minutes ago, dr.o.ball said:

We'd have been on the end of a couple 4.0 spankings with Enzo this season, just saying. 

Same as Cooper against those calibre of teams but I am pretty certain he would be better option against the teams we have failed to get 3 points at namely Fulham and Palace.

[pmcla26]

42 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

We aren't winning too many regardless of who's in charge. In this situation better to have a likable bloke than someone just obsessed with football theory like maresca or rodgers.

What's likeable about someone who drops his best players, takes us away from a good style of play and then blames refereeing decisions for his own short comings? 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

39 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

We would be far better off in the table with Enzo in charge compared to Cooper.
 

That ship has sailed, there’s little point in dwelling on what might have been - even if it was true.

 

And like with the debate with Cooper’s position - I don’t see him lasting much longer. 
 

He’s making enemies with the wrong players, you can tell the players are trying for him but have yet to be convinced by his tactics / training methods - and this sort of atmosphere will be filtering through to board level already.

 

BUT - it’s too early for the club to make what looks like an inevitable decision.

 

If the next two games go badly - the club might bite the bullet then, but even that’s probably a little bit premature to be seen as a ‘serious club.’
 

So they may need to sit through three further games up to the November international break and then go, “ok - it’s not worked out” at that stage.

 

Of course, if we somehow spring 10-15 points from those games, Cooper stays a little longer - but he’s not getting past 18 months at most with us, no way! 

 

The weird question for fans, however, has to be how we want the next run of games to go - knowing that a middling 6-8 points probably sees Cooper in charge up to at least Christmas (the fixtures look much tougher on paper after November).

 

You know, if given the option - would you want bad results against our direct relegation rivals now so Cooper is gone ASAP? 
 

Or is it better that we do alright in those games - meaning we don’t lose ground but he survives for a bit longer.

 

The other factor in this is at what point does sacking him give you the best options in terms of appointing a replacement.

[Fox92]

7 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Same as Cooper against those calibre of teams but I am pretty certain he would be better option against the teams we have failed to get 3 points at namely Fulham and Palace.

This is the same Maresca that also drew against Palace two weeks ago, but with a far better squad than ours? 

[The Doctor]

34 minutes ago, boots60 said:

2 points lost against palace was not Coopers fault. An unbelievable reversal of the lino's correct decision & a moment of stupidity by Coady was the reason we didn't come away with a win.

Early days, give Cooper more time & see where we are in a few weeks.

 

2 points lost was definitely his fault, we invited the pressure that ultimately lead to the equaliser because of his shoddy game management 

[moseeds]

35 minutes ago, boots60 said:

2 points lost against palace was not Coopers fault. An unbelievable reversal of the lino's correct decision & a moment of stupidity by Coady was the reason we didn't come away with a win.

Early days, give Cooper more time & see where we are in a few weeks.

 

The loss was entirely on the manager. In the same way the manager would be lauded for a victory. Can't have it both ways.

[Happy Fox]

18 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

This is the same Maresca that also drew against Palace two weeks ago, but with a far better squad than ours? 

Enzo would get far more out of the players than Cooper that’s a fact. Cooper is tactically inept at this level. 

[Stadt]

I don’t know why but it feels like our fan base places far too much on a manager’s media persona. 
 

Cooper is a nice, honest, humble chap and because of that he ingratiates himself with the fanbase. 
 

We’re shit but as he’s got lots on side more are willing to give him time (to do exactly the same thing over again).

 

His PL PPG and away records are appalling, the longer he’s the more likely we are to go down.

 

Yet again it’s languid managerial recruitment getting us in the shit. It’s remarkable we’re in 2025 and we’ve still never appointed a manager directly from a foreign country.

 

Cooper - out of work, local 

Smith (not the same I know) - out of work, local 

Rodgers - We did actually do well here but we left him in post far too long because we had no back up/succession plan 

Puel - Out of work after an uninspiring Saints season 

Shakespeare - Already at the club 

Ranieri - Out of work, applied for the job 

Pearson - Previously at the club, allegedly forced out in the first instance 

Sven - Out of work, big name 

Sousa - Appointed from Swansea, disastrous fit with squad 

[FOXSE]

25 minutes ago, moseeds said:

The loss was entirely on the manager. In the same way the manager would be lauded for a victory. Can't have it both ways.

I remember how this was fairly applied to maresca last season. It's definitely how it works....

[Fox92]

21 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Enzo would get far more out of the players than Cooper that’s a fact. Cooper is tactically inept at this level. 

People like you used to say Pearson was tactically inept at this level so don't think it means much.

[Tom12345]

When we were winning 2-1, I thought we looked more likely to score again and also thought that:

 

- given Cooper started Mavididi, maybe it was time to bring Ricardo on for Justin on the other side

- we should push on by replacing Ndidi with one of the other attackers we have

- Mavididi was looking a bit jaded late in the game and so he could make way for one of the other attackers we have

 

Instead, we got 2 defenders on. First, Hamza was a very poor sub as I can’t remember him doing anything of note and he is also not the attacking player I thought we should introduced. We instantly lost all attacking momentum or indeed any threat at all. We were just giving the ball straight back from this point.

 

Then when Coady came on, I thought Cooper is a loser, even though I was pleased (before the penalty) to see Coady get some minutes.

 

Our tactics was not only piss poor but it was demonstrably League One. It was like we were a League One side that got lucky with the lead against a Premier League side and we were just throwing everyone behind the ball because we can’t play football. This is the most disheartening - I thought Cooper is better than League One.

Edited Monday at 11:11 by Tom12345

[Guppys Love Child]

37 minutes ago, James_lcfc said:

A lot of last season was incredibly boring, I'll agree with you on that.

 

But it wouldn't be the case in the Premier League as there wouldn't be a single team who would camp in their own half against us.

 

If he had this squad as it is now, he would play Winks/Skipp sitting, two high 8's in El Khannouss/Bounanotte/Ndidi, two wingers in Mavididi/Fatawu/Ayew and rotate Vardy and Edouard up front.

 

We'd concede goals trying to play out from the back obviously, but it would be so much better than the shit we're watching now, I'm sure of it.

You make valid points there.

 

But if Cooper was to use your proposed selection (in bold) which i like by the way, and actually take the defensive handbreak off I think we would also be in a better position already.

 

Ref your final point. I agree we would ship more goals playing EnzoBall again, so I'll stick with my original points of our current team still wouldn't fit his philosophy, so I think we will need to agree too disagree here my friend..

[5waller5]

14 hours ago, pazzerfox said:

Palace just paid a fortune for Nketiah, have one of the most coveted wingers in the league, a centre back that Newcastle wanted to spend £40 plus million on and a young midfielder who is very highly rated.  Meanwhile, we have taken two of their squad players who weren't regulars in their first team.  A bit more perspective is needed I think. 

Palace will be in the bottom six.

Your point, to me, reads… “We can’t possibly hope to win away at the might of CPFC, we should celebrate conceding our 2 goal lead to the inevitable onslaught of superior quality and be happy we scraped a point. Well played SC, 2 points from 4 games is a great return”.

 

It smacks of the much derided, “we were once in League One you know” attitude.

 

This level of acceptance is why we are stuck with Rudkin, Cooper, and to some extent King Power.

 

It was a mistake to go ultra defensive, it’s a stupid tactic by a manager that’s either made a mistake (hopefully), or is inept

[5waller5]

12 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Cooper threw away 2 points because he went to 532 to try and see out the game, giving complete control and initiative to Palace when there was no need to.

 

Here's my full analysis and stats to make my argument.

 

 

 

Wow, I’m really surprised that you saw that as 5/3/2…. I’m always impressed with your analysis and bow to your superior knowledge and effort to analyse. I’d got it down as a 5/4/1 at best, a 5/5 at worst!

[James_lcfc]

20 minutes ago, Guppys Love Child said:

You make valid points there.

 

But if Cooper was to use your proposed selection (in bold) which i like by the way, and actually take the defensive handbreak off I think we would also be in a better position already.

 

Ref your final point. I agree we would ship more goals playing EnzoBall again, so I'll stick with my original points of our current team still wouldn't fit his philosophy, so I think we will need to agree too disagree here my friend..

All fair - Wouldn't expect you to agree with my nonsense! 

 

The season would still be a struggle with Enzo, I don't dispute that, but we'd have a plan, and we wouldn't be going into games shitting ourselves about the opposition.

[Daggers]

4 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's more popular in the squad than you think. 

 

JJ and VK are back playing in their preferred positions, Ayew and BDCR are likely smart enough and experienced enough to know an actual progressive manager drops them immediately, Vards is playing and scoring, cheerleader Coady seems to have no expectation of playing he just wants to hang around with the lads. 

 

Plus, he's just a reasonably likeable human being. He won over most of the fans that went to the Q&A just by being humble and relatable. 

 

They probably like him as a human being. 

 

 

[pazzerfox]

1 hour ago, 5waller5 said:

Palace will be in the bottom six.

Your point, to me, reads… “We can’t possibly hope to win away at the might of CPFC, we should celebrate conceding our 2 goal lead to the inevitable onslaught of superior quality and be happy we scraped a point. Well played SC, 2 points from 4 games is a great return”.

 

It smacks of the much derided, “we were once in League One you know” attitude.

 

This level of acceptance is why we are stuck with Rudkin, Cooper, and to some extent King Power.

 

It was a mistake to go ultra defensive, it’s a stupid tactic by a manager that’s either made a mistake (hopefully), or is inept

My view is that a point at Palace isn't a bad result with our current situation on and off the pitch.  If you look at the Palace forum, they believe we are relegation fodder and are aggrieved they couldn't beat us, and i'm pretty sure every other club will be thinking the same.  The style now is very much one of making us hard to beat, rather than attacking, fluid football at every opportunity.  It's obviously dividing opinion but if we stay up, I personally don't care.

[lcfcbluearmy]

2 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

That ship has sailed, there’s little point in dwelling on what might have been - even if it was true.

 

And like with the debate with Cooper’s position - I don’t see him lasting much longer. 
 

He’s making enemies with the wrong players, you can tell the players are trying for him but have yet to be convinced by his tactics / training methods - and this sort of atmosphere will be filtering through to board level already.

 

BUT - it’s too early for the club to make what looks like an inevitable decision.

 

If the next two games go badly - the club might bite the bullet then, but even that’s probably a little bit premature to be seen as a ‘serious club.’
 

So they may need to sit through three further games up to the November international break and then go, “ok - it’s not worked out” at that stage.

 

Of course, if we somehow spring 10-15 points from those games, Cooper stays a little longer - but he’s not getting past 18 months at most with us, no way! 

 

The weird question for fans, however, has to be how we want the next run of games to go - knowing that a middling 6-8 points probably sees Cooper in charge up to at least Christmas (the fixtures look much tougher on paper after November).

 

You know, if given the option - would you want bad results against our direct relegation rivals now so Cooper is gone ASAP? 
 

Or is it better that we do alright in those games - meaning we don’t lose ground but he survives for a bit longer.

 

The other factor in this is at what point does sacking him give you the best options in terms of appointing a replacement.

No matter how much I want Cooper sacked and I really do I think he is useless it is always better to win and get points.

 

Hoping we lose or draw just so the manager gets sacked is stupid

 

I expect us to lose under Cooper but always want and hope for us to win

[honeybradger]

19 minutes ago, pazzerfox said:

My view is that a point at Palace isn't a bad result with our current situation on and off the pitch.  If you look at the Palace forum, they believe we are relegation fodder and are aggrieved they couldn't beat us, and i'm pretty sure every other club will be thinking the same.  The style now is very much one of making us hard to beat, rather than attacking, fluid football at every opportunity.  It's obviously dividing opinion but if we stay up, I personally don't care.

They need to come to terms with the fact that they are relegation fodder this season as well. I dont think we will play many teams away from home this season where we will leave thinking we should have had 3 points.

[Happy Fox]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

People like you used to say Pearson was tactically inept at this level so don't think it means much.

Wow you have a good memory!  on reflection I was a bit dismissive of Pearson’s style towards the end of his tenure here but hugely had a lot of respect for the man. He was a very good manager, with Cooper it’s hard to be optimistic he’s a low end manager at this level, and that’s being kind, maybe in time he will be a good manager at this level, but for a club of our stature I think we can do better personally.

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Wow you have a good memory!  on reflection I was a bit dismissive of Pearson’s style towards the end of his tenure here but hugely had a lot of respect for the man. He was a very good manager, with Cooper it’s hard to be optimistic he’s a low end manager at this level, and that’s being kind, maybe in time he will be a good manager at this level, but for a club of our stature I think we can do better personally.

“He’s a low end manager at this level”, “A club of our stature.”

 

Hmmm, not sure how to break this to you…

[Happy Fox]

Just now, Matt said:

“He’s a low end manager at this level”, “A club of our stature.”

 

Hmmm, not sure how to break this to you…

We are still a biggish club in premier league terms even though we were relegated the season before last, far bigger than the likes of Brentford, Fulham and Bournemouth etc in time we will surpass these clubs, is it wrong to expect us to hire someone better than Cooper? Is he the best we can do? 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Happy Fox said:

We are still a biggish club in premier league terms even though we were relegated the season before last, far bigger than the likes of Brentford, Fulham and Bournemouth etc in time we will surpass these clubs, is it wrong to expect us to hire someone better than Cooper? Is he the best we can do? 

Why do you think this? Don`t all fans think their own club is better?