Steve Cooper - New Manager

[HankMarvin]

17 hours ago, ALC Fox said:

You talking about Cooper? As far as I can see I don't think any of his managerial jobs can be classed as a failure can they? Even being sacked by a maniac who went over his head signing scores of players that he was expected to pull together into a coherent team.

But he was also backed considerably with expensive players that were utilised in that first season.

 

Yes the scattergun approach  affected team cohesion, but a majority of the expensive signings made the nucleus of the team stronger, yet the 190m net investment doesn’t really get mentioned as a positive. 
For context Luton spent 25m net 

Sheffield united 36m net

Burnley 90m net 

 

22/23 Fulham 50m

22/23 Bournemouth 83m

 

[MGLCFC]

21 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

But he was also backed considerably with expensive players that were utilised in that first season.

 

But how many of those players did he really want, or was it the Fat Greek just buying who he thought would be a great fit. Unlike Eriksson who went on a spending spree when he first arrived here, I get the feeling Cooper had little say on who arrived.

[HankMarvin]

8 minutes ago, MGLCFC said:

But how many of those players did he really want, or was it the Fat Greek just buying who he thought would be a great fit. Unlike Eriksson who went on a spending spree when he first arrived here, I get the feeling Cooper had little say on who arrived.

It’s a bit of a double edge sword, because some of those players went on to get goals and assists etc that kept them up.

The Chairmen’s transfer dealings couldn’t have impeded him that much, because he stuck around and had another summer of it. 
 

[MGLCFC]

7 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

It’s a bit of a double edge sword, because some of those players went on to get goals and assists etc that kept them up.

The Chairmen’s transfer dealings couldn’t have impeded him that much, because he stuck around and had another summer of it. 
 

Being cynical, why would you walk away from a multi million pound a year contract. Best case scenario, he tries his best with those he's given and has some success, worst case (which is what happened) they don't gel, results are shocking and he gets sacked with a nice pay off, but still loved by the fans and his reputation hardly ruined as most of those in football are aware where the problem lies.

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

But he was also backed considerably with expensive players that were utilised in that first season.

 

Yes the scattergun approach  affected team cohesion, but a majority of the expensive signings made the nucleus of the team stronger, yet the 190m net investment doesn’t really get mentioned as a positive. 
For context Luton spent 25m net 

Sheffield united 36m net

Burnley 90m net 

 

22/23 Fulham 50m

22/23 Bournemouth 83m

 

It's not talked about positively because of the lack of his say in it, the fact they sacked their recruitment team afterwards. Does anyone blame Poch at Chelsea, or do they blame their crazy recruitment?

 

 

[Ric Flair]

Funnily enough I've spoken to the only Forest fan I know and he's pissing himself that we've appointed him. Said he's an absolute liability at this level. It's not for me to argue with him as let's face it, they are more inclined to know but it's honestly the only direct bit of criticism I've seen from them.

 

 

[Happy Fox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Funnily enough I've spoken to the only Forest fan I know and he's pissing himself that we've appointed him. Said he's an absolute liability at this level. It's not for me to argue with him as let's face it, they are more inclined to know but it's honestly the only direct bit of criticism I've seen from them.

 

 

 

22 percent win rate at premier league level is hardly glowing from a statistical point of view, but let's hope for us it's a different story.

[gurru991]

2 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

 

22 percent win rate at premier league level is hardly glowing from a statistical point of view, but let's hope for us it's a different story.

Win rate can be a difficult stat at times. 50 percent would be considered nasty at Chelsea but fantastic at Sheffield Utd

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

 

22 percent win rate at premier league level is hardly glowing from a statistical point of view, but let's hope for us it's a different story.

Nigel Pearson had a 29% win ratio in the premier league with us, thanks to an amazing final run. Kompany had a 13% win rate. Potters first two seasons were 24%, taking over an already premier league Brighton (Coopers first season was 24%). I don't know why people keep banging on about win ratios of newly promoted clubs like it's a regular occurrence to be posting large win ratios. 

[HankMarvin]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

It's not talked about positively because of the lack of his say in it, the fact they sacked their recruitment team afterwards. Does anyone blame Poch at Chelsea, or do they blame their crazy recruitment?

 

 

Depends how much of lack of say he had in it, Gibbs white and Nico Williams he definitely wanted if he didn’t want players like Awoniyi he played him in 27 games and his goals kept them. There countless positive other examples.

 

In the second season the athletic reports that it was coopers targets, to allow for fluid flexibility 

 

The Welshman wanted players like Ola Aina, who can play on the right side of defence or the left, as well as operating as a winger; young men such as Anthony Elanga and Callum Hudson-Odoi, who can operate on either flank or, in Elanga’s case, down the middle; and Divock Origi, who can play as a central striker or as a wider forward.

Ola Aina’s versatility means Nottingham Forest can be tactically flexible

Cooper wanted the ability to change formation not just on a game-by-game basis, but also within matches.

 

Steve Cooper has had Sangare on his shortlist since the club won promotion in 2022. Last summer he was unobtainable but this time around the club got their man.

 

Maybe it’s not quite as clear cut as people like to think.

.

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Funnily enough I've spoken to the only Forest fan I know and he's pissing himself that we've appointed him. Said he's an absolute liability at this level. It's not for me to argue with him as let's face it, they are more inclined to know but it's honestly the only direct bit of criticism I've seen from them.

 

 

Let’s hope not, but let’s not forget this is the same forest fans that speak positively of him hero worshipped (credit in the bank) him so much that they was cheering cooper after Fulham beat them 5-0 and Forest mustered one shot on target.

[volpeazzurro]

5 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

But he was also backed considerably with expensive players that were utilised in that first season.

 

Yes the scattergun approach  affected team cohesion, but a majority of the expensive signings made the nucleus of the team stronger, yet the 190m net investment doesn’t really get mentioned as a positive. 
For context Luton spent 25m net 

Sheffield united 36m net

Burnley 90m net 

 

22/23 Fulham 50m

22/23 Bournemouth 83m

 

The players may have been expensive but not necessarily very good. Weren't quite a few of them previously known failures? It's not what you spend it's what you buy! Buying your manager utter dross doesn't necessarily equate to backing him.

Edited 24 June by volpeazzurro

[whoareyaaa]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Funnily enough I've spoken to the only Forest fan I know and he's pissing himself that we've appointed him. Said he's an absolute liability at this level. It's not for me to argue with him as let's face it, they are more inclined to know but it's honestly the only direct bit of criticism I've seen from them.

 

 

We have better players than they did and most have been playing together for a while and have already played in the Prem, I think he will do well and I was against him at first.

 

I also think the majority of players will be happy to play a more natural style of football.

Edited 24 June by whoareyaaa

[HankMarvin]

10 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

The players may have been expensive but not necessarily very good. Weren't quite a few of them previously known failures? It's not what you spend it's what you buy! Buying your manager utter dross doesn't necessarily equate to backing him.

Dross is subjective when your squad was battling relegation from the championship a season before, they wasn’t arriving at mid table prem club.

 

[Scotch]

The way i view the recruitment at Forest under Cooper is doing a Jigsaw. Imagine doing a 1000 piece Jigsaw. You've got all the pieces you need to make a lovely wee picture. Then some fat Greek guy comes in and dumps 5 other jigsaws in the same box. Now, you can still make the same lovely wee picture, it's just going to be much harder and take far longer shifting through the guff. 

 

I think as long as we give him the right pieces, he'll make us a lovely wee picture. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Funnily enough I've spoken to the only Forest fan I know and he's pissing himself that we've appointed him. Said he's an absolute liability at this level. It's not for me to argue with him as let's face it, they are more inclined to know but it's honestly the only direct bit of criticism I've seen from them.

 

 

Pfft! What does he know about football? You said yourself, he's a Forest fan.

[Wymsey]

Will he have final say on player signings etc.?

[HankMarvin]

11 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Will he have final say on player signings etc.?

Listed as first team manager here, as opposed to Head Coach.

[Grebfromgrebland]

The downside is that he's not going to be backed like he was at forest.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

Nigel Pearson had a 29% win ratio in the premier league with us, thanks to an amazing final run. Kompany had a 13% win rate. Potters first two seasons were 24%, taking over an already premier league Brighton (Coopers first season was 24%). I don't know why people keep banging on about win ratios of newly promoted clubs like it's a regular occurrence to be posting large win ratios. 

In this instance I think it's important, if we're hit with a 6-10 point deduction then we're looking at needing 48 points or more which would require a win % far greater than any of those you quote.

[Nolucklcfc]

1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

The downside is that he's not going to be backed like he was at forest.

 

 

That could well be a blessing 

[whoareyaaa]

44 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

In this instance I think it's important, if we're hit with a 6-10 point deduction then we're looking at needing 48 points or more which would require a win % far greater than any of those you quote.

27 points was enough to survive last season maybe 35 would do it

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

Nigel Pearson had a 29% win ratio in the premier league with us, thanks to an amazing final run. Kompany had a 13% win rate. Potters first two seasons were 24%, taking over an already premier league Brighton (Coopers first season was 24%). I don't know why people keep banging on about win ratios of newly promoted clubs like it's a regular occurrence to be posting large win ratios. 

Judging a manager by how many games he wins, wherever next, judging a striker by how many goals he scores.

 

It's hardly controversial is it.

 

What other metrics can you use?

 

 

[Babylon]

50 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

In this instance I think it's important, if we're hit with a 6-10 point deduction then we're looking at needing 48 points or more which would require a win % far greater than any of those you quote.

Ok, so we just need to hire pep then. Because we are talking realities, and the reality is we are highly likely to get relegated.  Unless there is a mythical premier league manager that players great football, has a 50% premier league win ratio, has zero flops on his cv (as FoxesTalk clearly doesn’t accept that) and someone who wants to actually come here for the challenge we have. 

[splinterdream]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Funnily enough I've spoken to the only Forest fan I know and he's pissing himself that we've appointed him. Said he's an absolute liability at this level. It's not for me to argue with him as let's face it, they are more inclined to know but it's honestly the only direct bit of criticism I've seen from them.

 

 

Sometimes a manager needs to move to grow, we're an entirely different project to Forest at the point they were promoted