Steve Cooper - New Manager

[kingfox]

1 hour ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

This squad beat Bournemouth and narrowly lost to chealsea last season, that would not have happened if we had been managed by Cooper playing like this.

 

The squad is plenty good enough with a couple of additions to get comfortably 14- 17th 

 

However not with these crap tactics

Those couple of key words though “With a couple of additions”. 
 

My belief in finishing 17th or higher would increase a few levels if a couple of additions were made. 
 

But purely speaking off the basis of how our squad looks now, do people genuinely think it’s good enough to finish 17th or higher, because personally I don’t see it. 
 

Only players I think are really equipped for this league are Hermansen, Ricardo, Winks and Vardy(Even though he only scored 3 goals the last time we were in the Premier League)

 

People can bang on about having the likes of Justin and Ndidi, but they are not the same players they once were. The defence especially still worries me. We still have Choudhury and Soumare as depth options. The jury is out on what Mavididi and Fatawu can do at this level, while we still have Daka and Cannon as striker options. 
 

So much is still needed for us to be competitive in this league imo, we as fans have known that for weeks, but even though Cooper has frustrated the fvck out of me in Pre Season, he is only saying what we the fans have been saying.
 

Sorry for the mini rant, but I bloody needed it  

[DJ Barry Hammond]

5 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

I liked Cooper's post-Lens interview.

 

Very honest, told it like it is, i.e. we were poor in many areas and need to improve drastically.

 

It makes a change from Rogers and Enzo at least in that those two would always say we played well, deserved more etc. 

 

Are you serious? 
 

Even the king of evasive interviews Roberto Martinez would not have been able to defend that performance.

 

Plus - the reason we were poor was because we were setup to be poor.

 

One thing that was abundantly obvious in the first half was how easy we were making it for them to play through our thirds, that we were at least a yard or two off then at every point.

 

Yet there was no change - we neither dropped deeper and became more compact, or did the reverse and pressed higher, with the back line playing higher to bring about that compactness. 
 

We were also poor in possession and failed to get any territory dominance - at which point you may decide to go a little more route one. Get yourself up the pitch, win throw-in’s / freekicks in their half, just to establish some forward positivity - but that requires touchline instruction to do that.

 

And that has to be the most concerning thing about not just yesterday, but all of pre-season - these have been basic tactical deficiencies in our games that are not difficult to identify or purpose solutions too (regardless of quality of player) - and yet nothing has been done about it to date.

[Pliskin]

There’s a lot going around in here at the moment. 
 

I don’t think things have ever been this bad pre season, not even under Peter Taylor (naturally you didn’t have the social media aspect then).

 

There are a number of things we need to consider as to why things are looking this bad, but we have to start with Cooper. 
 

His statement about the style of play was that he was not planning on reinventing the wheel and was sticking with Enzo’s philosophy, but tweaking it. 
 

I want to bring up is it Dom Wells? He stated that in his research of Cooper indicated that he tends to initially struggle to strike a balance in the team, and this unfortunately is showing. 
 

But, his decision with some of the starting players is shocking…..I don’t understand why the likes of Hamza are getting game time! Unless cooper is wanting to be totally sure about some players before he commits to playing them, but that starting line up yesterday was hideous. 
 

The first issue is defensively, we look all over the place, suspect at set plays, getting caught on the ball quite regularly when trying to play out and positionally all over the place. Okoli is looking extremely suspect at the moment and leaving out Ricardo is a very poor idea…. Ben Nelson may as well play because none of the other CB could do much better at the moment…. 
 

There’s a definite issue in the attacking department, but I’m not having that it’s THAT bad…. Mavadidi and Fatawu are quality players, and both look completely miles off at the moment, we just need a decent 10 to bring that part of the attack together, and then a new striker and it shouldn’t be that bad….

 

Why Alves hasn’t been given a chance is beyond me….. we’ve gone out and loaned a young player off someone else’s when we could have given Alves a chance….

 

There’s been an alarming amount of excuses coming from Cooper, it’s no different from when Rodgers started tossing the job off playing down the foundations for his exit. But I wonder if Cooper has come in and just isn’t happy with the profile of some of the players he has……. I get he wants new players and he is probably trying to push the board in to making those deals happen, but it can’t be good for the other players to hear. 
 

There’s no doubt that Enzo has properly left us in the poo, him leaving I think has hit the players fairly hard because they look so disinterested at the moment, and that’s worrying. I’m not having that this squad isn’t good enough, it is. This team is better than the Forest team Cooper kept up, it just lacks a little bit of central creativity…… but with the lad from Brighton, potentially Zaha and a new striker that should be resolved. The rest of the team isn’t bad, with good coaching they can be good enough to keep us up…. For some reason, we’re not seeing this at all, and what is worrying is I don’t care what anyone says, Enzo managed to get them playing in his style almost immediately, and it can’t be denied that what we’re seeing now is extremely concerning that there’s such a disjointed team when they were so quick to adapt last pre season, and allegedly Cooper isn’t changing much in terms of style……
 

So in short, I’m not having this argument that Cooper has a lot of work to do, he doesn’t and he have even admitted that he isn’t changed much, so what else is wrong? Because it’s clear something is….. 

 

Perhaps it will click into place against Spurs but I’m not convinced…… so for me, I don’t blame the board for this…. I think it’s frankly bizarre that people are blaming them….. some almost speaking as if Coopers been coerced into taking a job he didn’t really want…….. he wanted the job, and he’s inherited a championship winning side, that’s largely the same with one key loss and it looks like they’ve never played together before. 
 

He does need time, but my patience will run out very quickly if this is all he can serve up. There have been question marks over him in the past, but I’m getting the impression he’s stuck between two ideas at the moment and doesn’t know which way he wants to go. He needs to this week go back to basics, and rather than do a Rodgers, think about how to get the best out of the team…….. 

[ozvaldo]

11 minutes ago, trooky said:

Maybe Cooper doesn't know how to coach the inverted full back role, have any of his teams played that way before?

That just proves he’s out of his depth. 

[mozartfox]

People really need to look at causes as to why we are wanting more quality and that is nothing to do with Cooper.  
 

Off the field in the last 2 seasons, we have been managed by Club Officials who have performed stunningly dreadful which has resulted in financial woes and piles of deadwood on the playing side. This has nothing to do with Cooper.  Yesterday was shocking and yes the lack of structure is down to Cooper but we need to give a break on concentrate on calling out the real culprits. Let’s see who we can bring in and hopefully not frigging Ayew.

[lcfcbluearmy]

2 hours ago, Rossiter said:

What's so brilliant about Potter?

He actually has a plan, plays players in position and can set up a team

[phoneticerror]

5 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

People really need to look at causes as to why we are wanting more quality and that is nothing to do with Cooper.  
 

Off the field in the last 2 seasons, we have been managed by Club Officials who have performed stunningly dreadful which has resulted in financial woes and piles of deadwood on the playing side. This has nothing to do with Cooper.  Yesterday was shocking and yes the lack of structure is down to Cooper but we need to give a break on concentrate on calling out the real culprits. Let’s see who we can bring in and hopefully not frigging Ayew.

You say this, but he keeps playing people out of their natural position. Daka hasn’t had a single moment of brilliance all preseason and any other manager would probably think “let’s give Tom one start”. 
 

That my friend, is 100% on him.

Edited 11 August by phoneticerror

[trooky]

51 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's just bizarre though. With absolutely no creative midfielders, this pre-season was the perfect opportunity to test Alves with the players around him and get him used to playing in this team in whatever the development plan for his career is. Even if he's going on loan or we're waiting for 6 months before introducing him to a settled PL team, it's pathetic what Cooper has done this pre-season.

 

So many academy players get momentum from being given a chance in pre-season.

 

Don't even get me started on what he's done with Ricardo.

Yes he's completely wasted our pre-season and succeeded in removing all our momentum and confidence from the promotion campaign.

 

I can understand to an extent not using Alves with it being Cooper's first season at the club and trying to build a playing style for the first games with senior players.

 

Cooper wouldn't have been my choice of manager but I'm prepared to give him some time until he gets the players we need to stop this season being a humiliation.

 

The team wasn't equipped for the PL after promotion, with Ndidi playing as an 8, then we loose KDH.

 

Daka and Cannon aren't the answer as strikers either, our recruitment has been a disaster so far.

 

I don't understand, when we have a tight budget, why we wasted more money on a centre back when we already have Souttar and Nelson who are probably both better than Okoli.

 

Having said all that Cooper  still  has to give Alves and Nelson plenty of minutes this season though, to develop our best prospects.

 

It's going to be a tough watch.

 

 

Edited 11 August by trooky

[volpeazzurro]

6 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

I’m trying to convince myself that the team selection yesterday was a message to the board that we desperately need new players. Why else would he play Ndidi AND Choudhury while leaving Alves on the bench and dropping Golding from the squad when we’re so short on creativity? Why else leave Mavididi and Ricardo out? There’s no way he’s actually considering starting with Choidhury and Kristiansen against Spurs….

It's a bit late for sending messages and he's got a mouth on him anyway. He knew what players he'd got when he took the job on. He should be playing something like his starting 11 for the last friendly to get them used to each other, not pissing about trying to make points. Whether we agreed with him or not, at least under Maresca you could see a team committed to a plan or system. There doesn't seem to be any coherent plan now and the players look confused. 

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, Nolucklcfc said:

I agree but that doesn’t warrant calling for his sacking yet! 

I don't think anyone's called for his sacking yet at all. However, I can see things turning quite hostile very quickly for a new season but that won't be purely for wanting the manager to be sacked, it will be as much about the incompetence of the people above him including Top. They are largely responsible for the position the club finds itself in!

[Nolucklcfc]

16 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I don't think anyone's called for his sacking yet at all. However, I can see things turning quite hostile very quickly for a new season but that won't be purely for wanting the manager to be sacked, it will be as much about the incompetence of the people above him including Top. They are largely responsible for the position the club finds itself in!

The title of this thread originally was cooper out. Plenty of people want him gone already which is ridiculous to be honest. Agree on the board, staggering incompetence 

[Jattdogg]

5 hours ago, adejo92 said:

There's something likeable about Cooper and I was quite glad when he was appointed. 

 

He might not have been the most 'exciting' manager to recruit but it just seemed like he was going to take things back to basics and grind out results.

 

The reality is, he's over complicated everything. Players out of positions, good players left out etc.

 

I agree with others, he looks completely broken already which Is worrying.

 

Who's going to want to take on this club, midway through the season and already destined for relegation.

 

Worrying times ahead.

Any out of work manager who needs easy short term money to fund a trip or grannie groupy.

 

Big Sam?

Rooney? After he gets sacked himself.

Edited 11 August by Jattdogg

[phoneticerror]

40 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

The title of this thread originally was cooper out. Plenty of people want him gone already which is ridiculous to be honest. Agree on the board, staggering incompetence 

It’s very very soon to sack somebody. FT is infamous for panic first, be rational later, but I guess the worry from most is because there is so much riding on this season. Hiring Cooper in the first place was the wrong move, but we’re stuck with him for now. Many said at the time that he wasn’t the right fit, and I don’t think it’s got anything to do with him being an ex red.
 

Back in the prem at the first time of asking, but the relegation has hit us hard - team and management are significantly weaker. It’s going to take a long time to rebuild from this.

 

What a pissing quick fall this has been.

[Nolucklcfc]

9 minutes ago, phoneticerror said:

It’s very very soon to sack somebody. FT is infamous for panic first, be rational later, but I guess the worry from most is because there is so much riding on this season. Hiring Cooper in the first place was the wrong move, but we’re stuck with him for now. Many said at the time that he wasn’t the right fit, and I don’t think it’s got anything to do with him being an ex red.
 

Back in the prem at the first time of asking, but the relegation has hit us hard - team and management are significantly weaker. It’s going to take a long time to rebuild from this.

 

What a pissing quick fall this has been.

I get all that but it’s more the fact people are just wanting to jump on him at any chance, looking for any negative they can. I won’t be judging till a few games into the season at least. And not to state the obvious but he has utter clowns above him not helping the situation 

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

I don't think anyone's called for his sacking yet at all. However, I can see things turning quite hostile very quickly for a new season but that won't be purely for wanting the manager to be sacked, it will be as much about the incompetence of the people above him including Top. They are largely responsible for the position the club finds itself in!

I absolutely do want him out, the best time to correct your mistakes is the moment you can see them to be mistakes and there's clearly no tactical plan, just a desire to lumber us with 600 new signings to fix his ineptness at managing the squad he already has

[phoneticerror]

17 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

I absolutely do want him out, the best time to correct your mistakes is the moment you can see them to be mistakes and there's clearly no tactical plan, just a desire to lumber us with 600 new signings to fix his ineptness at managing the squad he already has

It won’t happen. We need to accept the board ****ed up yet again. What a shocker.

 

[adejo92]

There is no doubt Cooper had a tough task ahead of him but he seems to be making things much harder for himself.

There's probably a reason the powers that be didn't want any matches played at the KP until they really had to.

[em9999]

To be fair there has been a lot of work to do with pitch and broken seats within stadium so I don't think it's the reason there's been no home friendlys

[HankMarvin]

I hope the squad is strengthened significantly and Cooper loses all wiggle room if he then underperforms.

[GingerrrFox]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

It's just bizarre though. With absolutely no creative midfielders, this pre-season was the perfect opportunity to test Alves with the players around him and get him used to playing in this team in whatever the development plan for his career is. Even if he's going on loan or we're waiting for 6 months before introducing him to a settled PL team, it's pathetic what Cooper has done this pre-season.

 

So many academy players get momentum from being given a chance in pre-season.

 

Don't even get me started on what he's done with Ricardo.

We keep hiring managers who have no intention of utilising the talented players in the academy and it’s gone beyond just frustrating now. You look at teams like Liverpool and the 2 Manchester clubs and they roll the young lads out in pre-season and expose them to the first team, there’s a clear pathway to the first team at these clubs, you just have to be good enough to get there.
 

Man Utd literally built a business model from giving their academy lads a few first team runs out with the full knowledge that they were just doing it to increase the transfer fee they would sell them on for. 

 

It’s criminal that Sammy B, Alves, Nelson and Golding haven’t had more game time this pre-season. Use the young lads, they are the future! 

Edited 11 August by GingerrrFox

[Lcfc82]

40 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

I absolutely do want him out, the best time to correct your mistakes is the moment you can see them to be mistakes and there's clearly no tactical plan, just a desire to lumber us with 600 new signings to fix his ineptness at managing the squad he already has

Who are you planning on replacing him with if you sack him now ?

I don’t think anyone decent will fancy coming to a club who sacks its manager after some pre season games, coupled with the prospect of working for Rudkin.

[phoneticerror]

3 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Who are you planning on replacing him with if you sack him now ?

I don’t think anyone decent will fancy coming to a club who sacks its manager after some pre season games, coupled with the prospect of working for Rudkin.

I wonder how many take Dean Smith?

[Claudio Fannieri]

I am sorry but whilst I completely recognise we need further squad reinforcements, there is still significant quality and options in this squad, we shouldn’t be going 3 games without scoring and barely creating any chances when you take into account the opposition. 
 

Cooper has picked the team, he chose to go with the most uncreative midfield 3 yesterday, leave out Ricardo, Vestergaard and Mavididi, decide not to give Alves any minutes, left another young attacking midfield prospect in Golding at home and continually chooses not to give Cannon any significant game time. So whilst he has not yet been given the signings he expected he is guilty of leaving a number of our more creative  outlets and attacking options on the bench or not involved.
 

He is either setting us up to play god awful anti football or it was one hell of a dirty protest to Rudkin and Top, but either way only a handful of weeks into your new job, neither are a good look.
 

Rudkin and Top are overseeing a train wreck but the train driver seems to be quite happy to drive the train straight into the nearest bridge. For a new manager to already be where Brendan was in the summer we got relegated is of massive concern.
 

His comments in the athletic article where it was stated he wouldn’t go public about needing players so it didn’t damage morale, well how the hell as it been leaked in that way? Also his post match comments effectively put his frustrations at the door of tie players and that they need to see incomings, whilst distancing himself from the loan signing of the young lad from Brighton. This is shaping up to be an absolute shit show of epic proportions. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Dean Smith or someone of his ilk back in the dugout by Christmas time. 

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, Nolucklcfc said:

The title of this thread originally was cooper out. Plenty of people want him gone already which is ridiculous to be honest. Agree on the board, staggering incompetence 

Just thought it was Cooper-New Manager? 

 

Yes, too soon to sack and too much shouldn't be expected. However, whilst we should reasonably expect to lose quite a lot it will be the performances that he will be judged on. If there are no clear tactics or he consistently plays people out of position then things are going to turn sour very quickly. 

[The Doctor]

55 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Who are you planning on replacing him with if you sack him now ?

I don’t think anyone decent will fancy coming to a club who sacks its manager after some pre season games, coupled with the prospect of working for Rudkin.

I'd be looking abroad for young prospects like Bournemouth, Palace and Brighton have all done, but you can't invisage that happening here because Rudkin is inept. sack him and get a new dof at the same time