Steve Cooper: The Tactics Thread

[FoxinNotts]

2 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

I think Kristiansen is a real player, and he was never getting a sniff under Enzo. Cooper may have him as one of the first names on the team sheet.

Yeah maybe. Yet to be seen though. Had his pants pulled down last night. He completely switched off.

[Nolucklcfc]

https://www.premierleague.com/news/4041925

 

Interesting read. 

[The_77]

2 hours ago, goose2010 said:

The back 5 (other than Justin) we / are horrendous footballers. That's how we lost. 

Ndidi was so out of form back then and was also a big reason for why we lost. 

[Dan LCFC]

Pragmatism doesn't necessarily just mean 'defensive'. He simply has to improve on what he served up at Forest. I had real fears about Maresca's football in this league but if he produces the same here as he did at Forest in their PL days then we're going down for sure.

[Torten]

26 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/4041925

 

Interesting read. 

Yes it's quite notable that despite excelling under Maresca last season, the squad is ideally set-up as a counter attacking unit for this season. At this level it will get the best out of our wingers and fullbacks, though you do worry whether JJ and Ricky P's bodies can handle it.

[Lesterlad]

3 hours ago, FoxinNotts said:

look at those line ups, on paper, and look how his team battered us!

 

We did have Ward Amartey and Thomas in starting line up. That may of helped them 

[Nolucklcfc]

15 minutes ago, Torten said:

Yes it's quite notable that despite excelling under Maresca last season, the squad is ideally set-up as a counter attacking unit for this season. At this level it will get the best out of our wingers and fullbacks, though you do worry whether JJ and Ricky P's bodies can handle it.

I always thought we looked at our best when counter attacking last season. I know enzo didn’t like it but at Birmingham away for example … 

[cityfanlee23]

3 hours ago, FoxinNotts said:

He’s the epitome of ‘Pragmatism’. 
His preference is actually 4-3-3, but he’ll adapt to play any formation to suit the team he is facing.

To add to this, in the premier league, he played (on paper):
3421, 343, 4231, 541, 532, 433 (with an attacking mid) 
In the championship, he also played a 4312 and a 4321. 

Obviously, these are all paper formations and they are not always 100% accurate. But he is certainly pragmatic!
 

[Nalis]

3 hours ago, kingfox said:

This is what he played at Swansea & Forest...

 

As you can see, he’s mainly favoured either 3-4-1-2 or 4-2-3-1 at both clubs he’s been at. 
 

I can’t get a graphic for the 20/21 season at Swansea, but for the majority of that season he favoured a 3-5-2/3-4-1-2. 
 

The main question is, does a 3-4-1-2 suit us? You have to say no, because they’d be no room for Mavididi & Fatawu. 
 

He seems to like playing with a ‘Number 10’, so I’d thoroughly expect a 4-2-3-1 system if he wants to play to our strengths. 

Thanks, where is that from? It looks really good.

[Nalis]

3 hours ago, Mr.Bingles said:

The more I read about Cooper, outside of this forum obviously, the more positive I am about him being our manager.

 

We need a mananger thats going to be adaptable, get the best of players with propbably fewer resources at his disposal. Its going to be a scrappy, ugly season and as long as he keeps us up with the inevatable points deduction then his appointment will have been a success.

 

THis season is about survival. Nothing else. It doesnt matter if its sexy, exciting or good to watch. He just needs to get the job done. And becuase of that we need a pragmatic, adaptable manager. Not one who will stubbornly stick to ideological footballing ethos.

Let's give the poor bugger a chance. Yes he looks like hes eaten a space cake but who cares. And who cares he managed Forest. Wes Morgan was from Forest.

I'm in exactly the same boat. Been a while since we had an adaptable manager. Let's back him and see what happens.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Nolucklcfc said:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/4041925

 

Interesting read. 

 

I think Cooper is a decent appointment, and there's some serious shade being thrown his way.

 

But despite that, reading that article, I can't help but have this image in my mind:

 

[Shane]

3 hours ago, FoxinNotts said:

look at those line ups, on paper, and look how his team battered us!

 

i wonder if fatawu will play upfront in the brennan johnson role? IIRC johnson still played wide right but had a license to roam

[BenTheFox]

54 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Pragmatism doesn't necessarily just mean 'defensive'. He simply has to improve on what he served up at Forest. I had real fears about Maresca's football in this league but if he produces the same here as he did at Forest in their PL days then we're going down for sure.

Yeah, people forget how fortunate Forest were to win some of the games they won in their first season back in the premier league. They were either saved by top class goalkeeping performances from Henderson/Navas or woeful finishing from the opposition. 

In terms of quality, the game where they beat us 2-0 at the city ground was pretty much as bad as it gets at the top level of English football. We were hopeless at the time but even in that game we missed a couple of brilliant chances from Barnes which would have put us in front. 

[kingfox]

15 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Thanks, where is that from? It looks really good.

Wyscout 👍🏻

[kingfox]

8 hours ago, kingfox said:

This is what he played at Swansea & Forest...

 

As you can see, he’s mainly favoured either 3-4-1-2 or 4-2-3-1 at both clubs he’s been at. 
 

I can’t get a graphic for the 20/21 season at Swansea, but for the majority of that season he favoured a 3-5-2/3-4-1-2. 
 

The main question is, does a 3-4-1-2 suit us? You have to say no, because they’d be no room for Mavididi & Fatawu. 
 

He seems to like playing with a ‘Number 10’, so I’d thoroughly expect a 4-2-3-1 system if he wants to play to our strengths. 

Just adding onto this. 
 

Even though I think 3-4-1-2 wouldn’t really suit us, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper experiments by putting Mavididi in a front two, he did play up front on numerous occasions during his spell at Montpellier. 
 

The most intriguing thing for me though is how he’ll operate our midfield. The midfield is likely to go through much change, with Winks & Choudhury probably the only two who are certain to remain. 
 

At Swansea he had Matt Grimes & Jay Fulton, both of which were ball winning midfielders. In both of Cooper’s seasons at Swansea, they averaged over 2 tackles and 1 interception per game. 
 

He had similar in his Championship season with Forest, often alternating Yates, Colback & Garner as his holding two. All three had decent defensive statistics from that season.

 

Think it’s going to be extremely important to get two ball winning midfielders through the door, even more so if Ndidi doesn’t sign a new contract. 

[Dan LCFC]

5 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

Yeah, people forget how fortunate Forest were to win some of the games they won in their first season back in the premier league. They were either saved by top class goalkeeping performances from Henderson/Navas or woeful finishing from the opposition. 

In terms of quality, the game where they beat us 2-0 at the city ground was pretty much as bad as it gets at the top level of English football. We were hopeless at the time but even in that game we missed a couple of brilliant chances from Barnes which would have put us in front. 

I just want to think he's not a one trick pony. I think he'd admit himself that he wanted a bit better than that. 

 

I think if he tries to attack with speed and he isn't entirely wedded to one way in every game he will win people around here.

[lfu]

26 minutes ago, kingfox said:

 

Even though I think 3-4-1-2 wouldn’t really suit us, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper experiments by putting Mavididi in a front two, he did play up front on numerous occasions during his spell at Montpellier. 

That was my first thought, I could picture this lineup being tried at some point even if it's just in preseason

With Mavididi playing the second striker role and drifting wide ride, maybe allowing Ricardo to run centrally when he has the ball?

-------------Vardy -- Mavididi
---------------------KDH
Fatawu --Winks--New DM--Ricardo

(CBs and GK go here)

[Foxes96]

So we could lineup as below, normally. Put Ricardo as CM due to lack of alternatives, and think this position could suit him more moving forwards. 
 

 

                      Mads 

   Justin - Vesty - Faes - Kristiansen 

             Ricardo - Winks 

       Fatawu  -  KDH  -  Mavididi 

                        Vardy 

 

Which then transitions to the below once in possession. Ie. Kristiansen providing the width on the left hand side and Mavididi cutting infield? 

 

                       Mads 

         Justin - Vesty - Faes

             Ricardo - Winks

  Fatawu - KDH - Mavididi - Kristiansen 

                        Vardy

[kingfox]

47 minutes ago, lfu said:

That was my first thought, I could picture this lineup being tried at some point even if it's just in preseason

With Mavididi playing the second striker role and drifting wide ride, maybe allowing Ricardo to run centrally when he has the ball?

-------------Vardy -- Mavididi
---------------------KDH
Fatawu --Winks--New DM--Ricardo

(CBs and GK go here)

That’s partly why I’m not keen on 3-4-1-2, because where on earth do you put Fatawu? 
 

He is good on the defensive end, but I just can’t picture him as a wing back. If Cooper goes 3-4-1-2, then you could see Mavididi, Fatawu or both being used as impact subs. 
 

Whatever the formation though, if we can somehow keep hold of KDH, I do agree that he’ll probably be pushed up into a ‘10’ role. 

[Fox1980]

10 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

On the WYS podcast, Dominic Wells said that Cooper's preferred way of playing is very possession-oriented, utilising a deep-lying playmaker in exactly the role that Winks plays but without the inverted full-back. However, unlike Enzo he will adapt and switch formations if his preferred way isn't working. So those moaning last season that we didn't have a 'Plan B' should be happy - Cooper apparently has so many plans that at times nobody is even sure what Plan A is. 

Plenty of cigars at the ready 

[majaco]

11 hours ago, FoxinNotts said:

look at those line ups, on paper, and look how his team battered us!

 

Ward and Amartey 

[Muzzy_no7]

3 hours ago, kingfox said:

Just adding onto this. 
 

Even though I think 3-4-1-2 wouldn’t really suit us, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper experiments by putting Mavididi in a front two, he did play up front on numerous occasions during his spell at Montpellier. 
 

The most intriguing thing for me though is how he’ll operate our midfield. The midfield is likely to go through much change, with Winks & Choudhury probably the only two who are certain to remain. 
 

At Swansea he had Matt Grimes & Jay Fulton, both of which were ball winning midfielders. In both of Cooper’s seasons at Swansea, they averaged over 2 tackles and 1 interception per game. 
 

He had similar in his Championship season with Forest, often alternating Yates, Colback & Garner as his holding two. All three had decent defensive statistics from that season.

 

Think it’s going to be extremely important to get two ball winning midfielders through the door, even more so if Ndidi doesn’t sign a new contract. 

I’d actually take Grimes for a smallish fee considering our situation and lack of ball winners.

 

Solid player. 

[Bordersfox]

3 hours ago, kingfox said:

Just adding onto this. 
 

Even though I think 3-4-1-2 wouldn’t really suit us, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper experiments by putting Mavididi in a front two, he did play up front on numerous occasions during his spell at Montpellier. 
 

The most intriguing thing for me though is how he’ll operate our midfield. The midfield is likely to go through much change, with Winks & Choudhury probably the only two who are certain to remain. 
 

At Swansea he had Matt Grimes & Jay Fulton, both of which were ball winning midfielders. In both of Cooper’s seasons at Swansea, they averaged over 2 tackles and 1 interception per game. 
 

He had similar in his Championship season with Forest, often alternating Yates, Colback & Garner as his holding two. All three had decent defensive statistics from that season.

 

Think it’s going to be extremely important to get two ball winning midfielders through the door, even more so if Ndidi doesn’t sign a new contract. 

A very interesting insight.  Thank you.

[wardyfox86]

11 hours ago, kingfox said:

That’s partly why I’m not keen on 3-4-1-2, because where on earth do you put Fatawu? 
 

He is good on the defensive end, but I just can’t picture him as a wing back. If Cooper goes 3-4-1-2, then you could see Mavididi, Fatawu or both being used as impact subs. 
 

Whatever the formation though, if we can somehow keep hold of KDH, I do agree that he’ll probably be pushed up into a ‘10’ role. 

This is worrying. I personally think he lacks the skillset to be impactful in that position.

 

A new #10 is a must. KDH is a #8 and can be used as a #10 if rotation is required.

[kingfox]

2 hours ago, wardyfox86 said:

This is worrying. I personally think he lacks the skillset to be impactful in that position.

 

A new #10 is a must. KDH is a #8 and can be used as a #10 if rotation is required.

Cooper could adopt him as an 8 in a 4-3-3, but he seemingly likes to play with a number 10. 
 

A midfield pairing of Winks & KDH surely wouldn’t offer enough defensive protection, we are crying out for a ball winner to go alongside Winks. 
 

KDH was one of the best creative midfielders in the Championship last season, I wouldn’t be against using him as a 10 if he stays that is.