Steve Cooper: The Tactics Thread

[StriderHiryu]

His new tactic of getting the game called off due to bad weather when not playing well is inspired

[Lad1966]

Just now, StriderHiryu said:

His new tactic of getting the game called off due to bad weather when not playing well is inspired

Not too sure about that, this was one of a few games we had a chance of winning🥴

[Lillehamring]

On 30/07/2024 at 11:25, WoodyFox said:

There's pragmatic and there's Jon Rudkin

Did you read the Rob Tanner article? If there's one thing that can be said about him and that's that he....

 

Oh, wait, you were just making a Rudkin joke - you're so cool.

[Lillehamring]

On 30/07/2024 at 13:58, Kiss of Death said:

Forest fan here. I'm sure he would. At Forest it was ridiculous the number of players coming in, and many of them did not seem to be players he wanted. He was then left with the job of having an almost completely different team to the one he had brought up plus a new team of reserves and hangers on. He was then expected to make these into a successful team in the season which all of the critics said was impossible, but he managed it. The following season he had to do it all again.

I think that his preference would be to bring in a few young players and develop them. If you have the right players he will play an attacking style. If you don't then he will try being defensive with sudden attacking breaks.

If you let him then he'll probably make you feel better about the team than you've been for a long time. I think he's a great choice, I'd love him back here.

So best wishes in the coming season, I hope that he makes you really successful.

Funnily enough, in the two games we've seen so far - that's exactly what we've seen - one game of each.

Unfortunately, the 'attacking style' didn't result in much in the way of final ball/end product - but it was clear that he has options to play different ways - although in this case i think it was more a result of the qualities/style of play of the opponents, than the players he has available.

[Lillehamring]

12 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Coming back over to the football threads is like dipping in the pool after an hour on the sunbeds on holiday.

 

So is the general consensus that Cooper will be playing a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 variant then?

 

I initially thought he would go for the 3-4-2-1/3-4-3/3-4-1-2 variants due to the amount of CB’s we have and lack of quality in the middle. 

The general consensus is split:

1. We haven't seen enough to know what he's going to do, it's all a bit strange.

2. He's sh!t, he hasn't got a clue, he has no tactics, forget about a plan B , he doesn't even have a plan A.   

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, K789 said:

Hes starting to sound frustrated 

[Lillehamring]

17 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

His new tactic of getting the game called off due to bad weather when not playing well is inspired

Well this time last year we had a melt down about how the club sent us to play in a monsoon, so it's probably safe to say this is John Rudkin's fault.

[Vlad the Fox]

22 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

Well this time last year we had a melt down about how the club sent us to play in a monsoon, so it's probably safe to say this is John Rudkin's fault.

Jon Rudkin’s a weatherman

a weatherman 

a weatherman 

Jon Rudkin’s a weatherman 

and so is Michael Fish 

[StriderHiryu]

 

Yes it's about Chelsea, but the first few minutes of this video eloquently sum up much of what I showed off in the tactics thread last season.

 

This will be useful to compare to what Cooper is and isn't doing, more of which will be posted after tomorrow's game.

[SystonFox]

I’ll ask him all we need to know at Thursdays q&a session

[Muzzy_no7]

Must admit I am a little baffled Cooper is persisting with 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 considering both our squad and position. 

[JimJams]

Why? 

After watching the friendlies so far I'm with you on being baffled.  However if his plan with a 4231 is to have a deep defence, the mid 2 sitting deep and the front 4 all pacey for the break, given this season everyone will play to beat us not sit back, then Mav, Fats, Daka/Vards and the possible inclusion of Asprilla or currently DCR operating through the middle could get a lot of joy playing counter attacking football.

[moore_94]

When we first got Cooper the idea that he would be more pragmatic made me think it was a decent appointment, setting us up in such a way to get the best out of our best players rather than forcing them into a system that doesn't work

 

I was wrong

 

This system with Mavididi coming inside and Kristiansen being our left winger is not it

[JimJams]

Coopers entire system seems to revolve around getting the ball to a winger that he doesn't want playing on the wing.  We're doing none of the things that made us successful last season, but carrying on the piss poor parts that frustrated.

[CrispinLA in Texas]

Really disappointed with Cooperball

[StriderHiryu]

Pre-season isn't about results, it's about understanding the style of play, the structure and fitness. Getting relationships working together and improving on them.

 

My notes from the Augsburg game.

• Nominally we are a 4231.
• We have a defensive 5 and an attacking 5, just like last season.
• When off the ball, we press and defend in a compact 442 shape.
• However, the difference is that one of the fullbacks pushes up to become a winger, with the starting winger (Mavididi) drifting in to become a 10/8.
• In the Augsburg game, that player is Kristiansen, and we have found him a lot.
• The 10's make the inside channel runs like Ndidi and KDh used to make last season.
• A big difference from last season is that Mads is not coming out to make an additional CB. That means that we don't have the box midfield from last season to play out from.
• However, we are still clearly trying to play the ball out from the back, using Winks as the main person to build through. Ndidi is more of a destroyer compared to the way Ricardo used the ball a lot more last season. In fact at times Winks is the sole pivot for building with, with Ndidi pushing up ahead of him to create more free men to find further upfield.
• We are running a high press with the front 5, and the back 5 are stepping up like last season. We didn't do this as much in the last few friendlies, but it's notable today. We have turned the ball over to make chances a few times, but also got caught out once or twice on transition too.
• Probably the biggest overall chance is that we don't try to compact the game down one side so we can switch play to a winger who we can isloate 1v1. This is how we got the best out of Mavididi and Fatawu last season, and it also freed up the 8's. With Cooper the wingers are more narrow and not stretching the game as much as under Enzo.

Overall we have more control of the match than the opposition and did start making half chances eventually. However, creativity was rare to see. The biggest frustration was Viktor Kristiansen. He got the ball so many times, but always turned back in. Moving Stephy inside *could* work, but if the player out wide doesn't pose the same ability to beat a man, or support the inside player, then it's a waste. Last season Mavididi and KDH combined really well. The Elephant in the room is we have not replaced KDH and his 26 goal contributions and it shows.

 

There has been a real lack of creativity in the last two games. We are huffing and puffing but don't look like scoring. That was not the case under Enzo where in most games we did create chances, even if at times it wasn't as often as we would have liked to. Some of the moves we make are from last season, but they feel like inferior versions of those moves rather than well drilled and practiced ones. My worry is that the moves are muscle memory from under Enzo and not patterns coached by Cooper.

 

One more pre-season game to go before the season starts. I feel like we are in dire need of some creative players. Bobby Reid felt invisible at times.

 

[Ric Flair]

He's a really poor appointment. The one thing I was willing to support him because of, he's shown precious little interest in doing. 

 

Get him gone.

[coolhandfox]

13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's a really poor appointment. The one thing I was willing to support him because of, he's shown precious little interest in doing. 

 

Get him gone.

Give the bloke at least 10 games.

 

I was very anti he's appointment, but you have to give any manager a chance.

 

I know you are frustrated about Alves but all the lines up would decided before this week and training would have been built around it. Alves would have got a good run out last Tuesday without the rain.

Edited 3 August by coolhandfox

[SouthStandUpperTier]

6 attempts on goal, one on target. What more do you people want?

[Tuna]

**** me Flair is already Cooperout

[GingerrrFox]

3 minutes ago, Tuna said:

**** me Flair is already Cooperout

He’ll be gone by December. 

[moore_94]

Just now, GingerrrFox said:

He’ll be gone by December. 

Ric or Cooper?

[honeybradger]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's a really poor appointment. The one thing I was willing to support him because of, he's shown precious little interest in doing. 

 

Get him gone.

I assume you're talking about promoting youth? If so i'm with you on that one, it feels like he's doing a Rodgers and not giving Golding or Alves a proper runout to make it look like we have fewer options than we do in order to force through transfers.

[brownfox]

Watching the last few friendlies I’m struggling to see what his tactics or plans are? I was hoping he would have been braver especially during friendlies to try new things and also give younger ones a chance, but today was dire. 

[GingerrrFox]

Just now, moore_94 said:

Ric or Cooper?

Cooper. Ric is right, he’s got a record of working with young players in football and he’s shown **** all appetite to do it here in pre-season. I don’t know if not using Alves or Golding is a tactic to force the clubs hand on transfers but both of their potential is being stagnated by him.