Steve Cooper: The Tactics Thread

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The infuriating thing is we can precious afford to wait to get our business done by the end of August. I know it's only 3 games in to the season but add the potential points deduction coming and we're leaving ourselves with so much to do to stay up.

 

We just don't seem to be able to do anything quickly or efficiently. Quite frankly I'm bored and had enough of this ownership and regime now. I yearn for a new era so much.

Welcome to the club, we've been piss poor for years now, and there's zero accountability for it.

[Finnegan]

38 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

At least he is recognising the lack of attacking desire we have had

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/augsburg-leicester-live-match-updates-9457321

 

"It was a test that we needed, it was a step up in game, there’s no doubt about that. They’re a good Bundesliga team and that’s the sort of competition we want to be playing now.

 

"For all of the control we had in the game, I just feel, as a team, we need to show more desire to score a goal. To play with the ball like we did and get into the positions we did, it’s to create and score goals. That’s the purpose of our game. We want to be at the top end of the pitch, be exciting and be threatening, and the last two games I don’t feel like we’ve done that enough, truth be told. It’s not particularly an attacking thing, it’s a team thing.

 

"The set-piece we conceded is never okay, but it’s something we can learn from. There’s the performance and the result, and we want to perform in a way to win games, but to do that, you have to have a toughness about you and a ruthlessness at both ends. The last two games, for all of the good positions we’ve got into, we’ve got to be more of a threat.

 

"Also, duels, we know what’s coming in the Premier League, it’s a massive step up. In the end, when you’re in one-v-ones and you’re combatting, and you’re against your opponent, you’ve got to win more duels than you lose. I think that needs addressing as well.

 

“The guys are really engaged, they’re working really hard every day, they’re really trying to take on the ideas. A lot of them are coming out, but the idea is to start scoring goals and stop conceding, and that will always be our idea. We needed a test. We want to win games in pre-season, but it’s never a disaster if you lose, as long as you take the lessons and it helps you get ready for the start of the season.”

 

Like Brendan ****ing Rodgers. It's the players desire that's the problem not my stupid ****ing shape. 

 

[StriderHiryu]

37 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

At least he is recognising the lack of attacking desire we have had

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/augsburg-leicester-live-match-updates-9457321

 

"It was a test that we needed, it was a step up in game, there’s no doubt about that. They’re a good Bundesliga team and that’s the sort of competition we want to be playing now.

 

"For all of the control we had in the game, I just feel, as a team, we need to show more desire to score a goal. To play with the ball like we did and get into the positions we did, it’s to create and score goals. That’s the purpose of our game. We want to be at the top end of the pitch, be exciting and be threatening, and the last two games I don’t feel like we’ve done that enough, truth be told. It’s not particularly an attacking thing, it’s a team thing.

 

"The set-piece we conceded is never okay, but it’s something we can learn from. There’s the performance and the result, and we want to perform in a way to win games, but to do that, you have to have a toughness about you and a ruthlessness at both ends. The last two games, for all of the good positions we’ve got into, we’ve got to be more of a threat.

 

"Also, duels, we know what’s coming in the Premier League, it’s a massive step up. In the end, when you’re in one-v-ones and you’re combatting, and you’re against your opponent, you’ve got to win more duels than you lose. I think that needs addressing as well.

 

“The guys are really engaged, they’re working really hard every day, they’re really trying to take on the ideas. A lot of them are coming out, but the idea is to start scoring goals and stop conceding, and that will always be our idea. We needed a test. We want to win games in pre-season, but it’s never a disaster if you lose, as long as you take the lessons and it helps you get ready for the start of the season.”

To be fair, it's quite refreshing to hear someone as candid as this.

[JimJams]

I mean that's pretty fair to say.  Though saying "..the idea is to start scoring goals and stop conceding, and that will always be our idea.."  That's not our idea.  That's the basic premise of the sport.

 

This "The last two games, for all of the good positions we’ve got into" also makes you wonder if he's watching the same game as us.  We offered nothing. We didn't test the keeper.  We didn't have any close efforts on goal. It wasn't like we were getting players in but the shot or final ball just wasn't there. We didn't do anything.

 

Hopefully it just looks a bit shit now but all comes together. 

[JimJams]

I watched the Spurs friendly earlier as well, and they looked shite as well tbf.  Their goal came from a long ranger from Porro which should have been dealt with really. Otherwise they were disjointed, especially at the back.  Though, they were against Bayern.

[JimJams]

 

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Pre-season isn't about results, it's about understanding the style of play, the structure and fitness. Getting relationships working together and improving on them.

 

My notes from the Augsburg game.

• Nominally we are a 4231.
• We have a defensive 5 and an attacking 5, just like last season.
• When off the ball, we press and defend in a compact 442 shape.
• However, the difference is that one of the fullbacks pushes up to become a winger, with the starting winger (Mavididi) drifting in to become a 10/8.
• In the Augsburg game, that player is Kristiansen, and we have found him a lot.
• The 10's make the inside channel runs like Ndidi and KDh used to make last season.
• A big difference from last season is that Mads is not coming out to make an additional CB. That means that we don't have the box midfield from last season to play out from.
• However, we are still clearly trying to play the ball out from the back, using Winks as the main person to build through. Ndidi is more of a destroyer compared to the way Ricardo used the ball a lot more last season. In fact at times Winks is the sole pivot for building with, with Ndidi pushing up ahead of him to create more free men to find further upfield.
• We are running a high press with the front 5, and the back 5 are stepping up like last season. We didn't do this as much in the last few friendlies, but it's notable today. We have turned the ball over to make chances a few times, but also got caught out once or twice on transition too.
• Probably the biggest overall chance is that we don't try to compact the game down one side so we can switch play to a winger who we can isloate 1v1. This is how we got the best out of Mavididi and Fatawu last season, and it also freed up the 8's. With Cooper the wingers are more narrow and not stretching the game as much as under Enzo.

Overall we have more control of the match than the opposition and did start making half chances eventually. However, creativity was rare to see. The biggest frustration was Viktor Kristiansen. He got the ball so many times, but always turned back in. Moving Stephy inside *could* work, but if the player out wide doesn't pose the same ability to beat a man, or support the inside player, then it's a waste. Last season Mavididi and KDH combined really well. The Elephant in the room is we have not replaced KDH and his 26 goal contributions and it shows.

 

There has been a real lack of creativity in the last two games. We are huffing and puffing but don't look like scoring. That was not the case under Enzo where in most games we did create chances, even if at times it wasn't as often as we would have liked to. Some of the moves we make are from last season, but they feel like inferior versions of those moves rather than well drilled and practiced ones. My worry is that the moves are muscle memory from under Enzo and not patterns coached by Cooper.

 

One more pre-season game to go before the season starts. I feel like we are in dire need of some creative players. Bobby Reid felt invisible at times.

 

I'm not sure i agree with this, or at least that he was worse than anyone else.

Ndidi as an attacking option is a dead loss, he gives away far too much possession with his heavy touches and poor passing - at least VK put some crosses in and, yes he did tuen back a fair bit, but at least he kept possession.

I also found Fatwu incredibly frustrating - he's like mahrez without the end product - by which i mean he runs in to dead ends and loses possession and his shooting is naive, wasteful and, frankly, atrocious.  I can see Cooper getting very frustrated with him and i'm not surprised we've been looking at players in that position.

 

For what it's worth, from a tactical standpoint, we've played a couple of decent teams that are both very solid defensively - i'd argue that of the few teams we'll play this year that sit deep, none will be as good at it as Ausberg and Palermo; the majority of teams we'll play will probably offer us space for us to counter into (which we did decently in the first pre-season game.

 

I get people's frustration at the lack of end product but the foundation of our build up play i think is really sound, comparable in quality to last year but with a bit more urgency.

 

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

Cooper. Ric is right, he’s got a record of working with young players in football and he’s shown **** all appetite to do it here in pre-season. I don’t know if not using Alves or Golding is a tactic to force the clubs hand on transfers but both of their potential is being stagnated by him. 

I can't imagine any manager coming in would take what is 95% a title winning squad and drop players to bring in teenagers with no first team experience just as an exercise in 'promoting youth' - it's clear that there's potential in these players but you can't gamble an entire season by starting with players who may or may not be capable at this level - and no amount of pre-season friendly experience is going to change that.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

I want the players to be enjoying the football they're playing, any ideas on how do you get the players to be happy when they're on the pitch

How do you know the players aren't happy?

This is where the hard work is done - right now they're focussed on anything but dancing and skipping.  But just because they're not laughing and mucking about  on the pitch doesn't mean they're not enjoying being out there, and i'm sure there's an element of frustration in knowing that they're not playing as well as they are capable - but, again, that doesn't mean they're unhappy.

 

Too many posters on here putting words into the mouths of the players and the club.

[kingfox]

Cooper seems adamant not to invert Ricardo, and he seems too keen on playing a back three in possession, it’s killing us. 
 

Ricardo either has to start on the left, we either change system when in possession, or bafflingly he doesn’t start at all. 
 

I think Cooper’s just too fearful on using Ricardo as an inverted fullback, I think he’s scared that we’d get destroyed on the transition, he’s probably looked at our games from last season and identified it as a potential issue. From the first game last season against Coventry and other multiple games throughout the season, there were times where we looked far too open on transition. If Championship teams produced better finishing and were more clinical, I think we would’ve lost more games last season. 
 

Looking back at Strider’s analysis on the Palermo game, even though spells of the first half were uninspiring, with the right personnel, I think a 4-3-3 in possession build up would work far better. 
 

It would give us better balance at fullback and solve the Ricardo conundrum. Ricardo or Justin could be used as the more advanced fullback, with Kristiansen used as the more defensive one, which would probably suit him better. Add a couple of additions in midfield, especially an attacking midfielder who is creative and chips in with defensive work(Maybe Asprilla), then get in a more industrious midfielder as competition for Ndidi, then I think that system has more potential to work, than the 3-2-4-1 system or whatever it is that we saw today and in other matches. 

[Paninistickers]

Tactically it was kinda interesting. 

 

It's clear VK will be part of the set up. Question is, is he good enough? The uber advanced attacking LB role is a key component and I'm not sure he's good enough. 

 

I thought we looked to have a LOT of bite in phases and had a clear structure to win the ball back quickly. Faes clearly given licence to be aggressive and dive in which leads to him being turned at times. Daka, Mavididi pressed well. 

 

Augsburg were poor. I'd rate them at Millwall level of big, strong cloggers. That's worrying that we most to garbage..

 

I liked Wilf back to his old role. Winks and Vesty picked up where left off. 

 

Not convinced by Fatawu.

 

Interesting to play Mavididi just off the striker. 

 

BdcR ...hmmm, in patches.ok but a poor poor man's KDH

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, JimJams said:

I mean that's pretty fair to say.  Though saying "..the idea is to start scoring goals and stop conceding, and that will always be our idea.."  That's not our idea.  That's the basic premise of the sport.

 

This "The last two games, for all of the good positions we’ve got into" also makes you wonder if he's watching the same game as us.  We offered nothing. We didn't test the keeper.  We didn't have any close efforts on goal. It wasn't like we were getting players in but the shot or final ball just wasn't there. We didn't do anything.

 

Hopefully it just looks a bit shit now but all comes together. 

I think the point he's making is that we are getting into shooting positions, and we are getting possession in the box, but we're not making those positions count. There'll be a misplaced pass or a blocked shot or fatawu hoofing it into space.  I think what Cooper sees is the potential and resultant outcome - and is frustrated that they don't align.  And really, to get into these positions (cue the grumblers suggesting that we don't get into these positions) suggests that tactically our build up play is sound, it's our final ball that is failing us - and this has been an issue under previous managers, too.  

[Lillehamring]

15 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Cooper seems adamant not to invert Ricardo, and he seems too keen on playing a back three in possession, it’s killing us. 
 

Ricardo either has to start on the left, we either change system when in possession, or bafflingly he doesn’t start at all. 
 

I think Cooper’s just too fearful on using Ricardo as an inverted fullback, I think he’s scared that we’d get destroyed on the transition, he’s probably looked at our games from last season and identified it as a potential issue. From the first game last season against Coventry and other multiple games throughout the season, there were times where we looked far too open on transition. If Championship teams produced better finishing and were more clinical, I think we would’ve lost more games last season. 
 

Looking back at Strider’s analysis on the Palermo game, even though spells of the first half were uninspiring, with the right personnel, I think a 4-3-3 in possession build up would work far better. 
 

It would give us better balance at fullback and solve the Ricardo conundrum. Ricardo or Justin could be used as the more advanced fullback, with Kristiansen used as the more defensive one, which would probably suit him better. Add a couple of additions in midfield, especially an attacking midfielder who is creative and chips in with defensive work(Maybe Asprilla), then get in a more industrious midfielder as competition for Ndidi, then I think that system has more potential to work, than the 3-2-4-1 system or whatever it is that we saw today and in other matches. 

I thought today Ausburg transitioned very quickly and with great dynamism but i didn't feel that they really caused us a great deal of trouble - our work rate was first class, front to back.  It's not entirely impossible to believe that right now, we've gone back into that mode of being so wary of conceding chances it's made us super risk averse going forward, which is perhaps why we're not playing those cross field balls or throwing bodies into the box as we have got used to in the championship.

 

I think fans are expecting us to be both solid defensively and thrilling going forward, but survival is our priority and so we have to be pleased that we're defending relatively well - i don't think we've conceded more than one goal from open play (correct me if i'm wrong).  Something that seems to be overlooked because of the less than dynamic attacking we're producing right now.  The three teams that went down last year were horrendous defensively - as dull as it may seem, i'd be happy for us to be like everton scoring just 40 but conceding the 4th fewest goals in the league.

 

 

[Lillehamring]

19 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Tactically it was kinda interesting. 

 

It's clear VK will be part of the set up. Question is, is he good enough? The uber advanced attacking LB role is a key component and I'm not sure he's good enough. 

 

I thought we looked to have a LOT of bite in phases and had a clear structure to win the ball back quickly. Faes clearly given licence to be aggressive and dive in which leads to him being turned at times. Daka, Mavididi pressed well. 

 

Augsburg were poor. I'd rate them at Millwall level of big, strong cloggers. That's worrying that we most to garbage..

 

I liked Wilf back to his old role. Winks and Vesty picked up where left off. 

 

Not convinced by Fatawu.

 

Interesting to play Mavididi just off the striker. 

 

BdcR ...hmmm, in patches.ok but a poor poor man's KDH

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really?  But for a woeful final five games they could easily have been pushing for the 'best of the rest title' - Notwithstanding, 11th in th BL is a hell of a step up from Millwall.

 

They had some really fast dynamic players, and were strong and organised.  Dismissing them as poor seems unfair on them and us.

 

 

Otherwise - I think i agree with all your other points.  (BDCR, like ndidi against palermo, seems like a 'placeholder' - clearly that's the spot he's referring to when he says 'bringing in a starter'.)

[dillonpanthers87]

I don't think we can judge; so few signings, that interview today, while he's not doing a Brendan or even an Enzo re transfer comments, there's a real sense of "this is not ideal but I'm trying to work with it". 

 

I like his transparency and what he's come out with in pre-season comments wise; I know it's on the pitch is where it matters, but we haven't given him much. 

 

 

[GingerrrFox]

45 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I can't imagine any manager coming in would take what is 95% a title winning squad and drop players to bring in teenagers with no first team experience just as an exercise in 'promoting youth' - it's clear that there's potential in these players but you can't gamble an entire season by starting with players who may or may not be capable at this level - and no amount of pre-season friendly experience is going to change that.

He’s brought Bobby DC Reid in to play straight away, didn’t exactly set the world alight today, Will Alves is at a crucial point in his development, if we can’t give him more game time than 8 minutes in pre-season then something is wrong with the development pathway at our club. 

[Lionator]

11 minutes ago, dillonpanthers87 said:

I don't think we can judge; so few signings, that interview today, while he's not doing a Brendan or even an Enzo re transfer comments, there's a real sense of "this is not ideal but I'm trying to work with it". 

 

I like his transparency and what he's come out with in pre-season comments wise; I know it's on the pitch is where it matters, but we haven't given him much. 

 

 

He can’t really do that as his mindset is that he’s lucky to be given a shot by a prem team. However coming from Forest to here must be a bit of a reality check in terms of signing competency lol. 

[trooky]

5 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

Cooper. Ric is right, he’s got a record of working with young players in football and he’s shown **** all appetite to do it here in pre-season. I don’t know if not using Alves or Golding is a tactic to force the clubs hand on transfers but both of their potential is being stagnated by him. 

I don't think Cooper's playing politics with the board.

 

You need a settled first team and playing style before you start promoting youth, especially after a few weeks at the club. 

 

Alves didn't even feature towards the end of  last season after injury under Enzo.

 

He would need to be exceptional in preseason training to force his way into the starting lineup this early.

[Blanchflower78]

Cooper took the job knowing were screwed. Anyone taking it would have. Prem exposure, money talks if/when it doesn't work out.

 

Sad and frustrating but true.

[Bptiger]

Said it from the start , if we don’t sign 2 attack minded midfielders and a class striker, we will be in the championship next season . But as usual we can’t get any decent signings over the line , Southampton seems to have signed better players , we need action , with the window closing soon 

[moseeds]

6 hours ago, JimJams said:

I mean that's pretty fair to say.  Though saying "..the idea is to start scoring goals and stop conceding, and that will always be our idea.."  That's not our idea.  That's the basic premise of the sport.

 

 

 

Totally taken aback by that line. He comes across a bit laid-back in interviews and after the intensity of Maresca I'm not convinced the players are warming to this guy at all. With trite statements like that how can they?

 

If the first 3-5 games go horribly wrong several senior team members will mentally check out at which point relegation is inevitable. Watching the game today it felt like an old-fashioned championship match with no clear positional play and tremendous amounts of energy expenditure.

 

I can't remember the last time I felt this pessimistic. Even last season once Maresca was onboarded and we had glimpses of what could be during pre-season the mood lofted significantly. This time around with the pending points deduction and the tactical salad we've now seen I'm not sure just how bad it will be.

 

We got spoiled by Maresca.

Edited 4 August by moseeds

[Paninistickers]

Have to say, whatever happens, it's a breath of fresh air playing full backs. Both JJ and VK had to put on the burners and sweep round with an aggressive last ditch tackle in the second half. 

 

There's a reason 99.999% of teams play full backs and only Enzo doesn't..

[foxinsocks]

8 hours ago, Bptiger said:

Said it from the start , if we don’t sign 2 attack minded midfielders and a class striker, we will be in the championship next season . But as usual we can’t get any decent signings over the line , Southampton seems to have signed better players , we need action , with the window closing soon 

We look set to bet on ayew

[Dusty]

13 hours ago, JimJams said:

 

He is absolutely desperate to bring players in isn’t he. I do sympathise with him a bit, the club is an all round mess - he is a part of that but he’s not getting any help either.  

[Paninistickers]

19 minutes ago, Dusty said:

He is absolutely desperate to bring players in isn’t he. I do sympathise with him a bit, the club is an all round mess - he is a part of that but he’s not getting any help either.  

100 this. 

 

A club that's spent 25m on a centre half and a young teen lad. And last year bailed out Everton with 10m on a lad we didn't need nor played. 

 

The club at every administrative level is a total shambles. A disgrace 

 

The