Steve Cooper: The Tactics Thread

[lee7]

8 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

The reality check is when he said we'd like to improve the starting line up but if we can't then more competition is needed. ie more duffers to pad the squad. 

 

Anyone expecting our starting line up to improve from what it is now is going to be disappointed.

Sad but true! 

 

[Leeds Fox]

Haven’t seen any pre-season. Do we have any tactics? 

[He's_Magic]

1 hour ago, Leeds Fox said:

Haven’t seen any pre-season. Do we have any tactics? 

Yes, get relegated by more than 10 points. Show the Premier League that there points deductions are irrelevant and has no impact on the result of the season. Ingenious.

[Dr The Singh]

2 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

Haven’t seen any pre-season. Do we have any tactics? 

We have tic tacs, keeps mouth fresh

[Realist Guy In The Room]

4 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

Haven’t seen any pre-season. Do we have any tactics? 

He seems to spit quite a bit when he’s shouting.

 

I know that’s nothing to do with tactics but at this stage, that’s really all there is.

[jonny_wright]

I’m not going to get on Coopers case, because if we finish anything other than bottom this season he will have done fantastically well with what he’s got to work with, I don’t see how we will score goals 

[Tielemans63]

He must wonder what he's walked into 

[JimJams]

Well it's not like he had anything better to do.

[GingerrrFox]

23 hours ago, jonny_wright said:

I’m not going to get on Coopers case, because if we finish anything other than bottom this season he will have done fantastically well with what he’s got to work with, I don’t see how we will score goals 

Would you have said the same if Enzo Maresca was still in charge?

[fox_up_north]

I think I would have had similar expectations of Maresca, once all the points deduction talk started. Instantly it's a black mark against the club and it makes it hard to bring anyone in. 

[coolhandfox]

27 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Would you have said the same if Enzo Maresca was still in charge?

I would expect a manager who's had 12 months to install his ethos and tactics to perform better than a guy who had 6 weeks. 

[Lillehamring]

On 03/08/2024 at 23:15, GingerrrFox said:

He’s brought Bobby DC Reid in to play straight away, didn’t exactly set the world alight today, Will Alves is at a crucial point in his development, if we can’t give him more game time than 8 minutes in pre-season then something is wrong with the development pathway at our club. 

Yes - BDCR would be the 5% that we didn't retain - ie. an attacking midfielder - if he does start he'll effectively be the replacement for KDH - I don't see any of the other first XI from last year being dropped for an academy player

[Lillehamring]

On 05/08/2024 at 06:40, Ric Flair said:

This is a huge 2 weeks ahead of Spurs. I don't really understand what Cooper is trying to do. 

 

I get the feeling he's deploying a system and style that the club want him to play, which might be sensible if that's the best use of the squad in a pragmatic sense. However, if that's not the best fit or not the one that the manager knows how to implement the best then you risk being so passive.

 

I'm concerned we aren't going to get the required bodies in, which renders this way of playing extremely futile. We will need to be more direct and more aggressive. Do we even have the players for that? Debatable but if we're going to be pitiful at defending and attacking set pieces as well then it's curtains for us.

 

Plenty to do, I feel like we'll be giving many teams a head start with the lack of surgery to the squad in time for the start of the season and then the likely points deduction still to come as well. 

 

This is going to be about as enjoyable as watching morris dancing.

i think he's playing the system that is best for the players he has, a system close, but less limited, to the system they are used to be playing - naturally the squad is that way because that's how the club have recruited - as such, i'm not sure what else he could do.

 

For sure we still need a few elements to click - people were melting down last summer before we got mav and fatawu in - so there's reason to believe that the recruitment team can repeat that success with the missing players this year.

 

I think anybody trying to predict how we will play based on the pre-season is on a hiding to nothing, as we've yet to play an opponent who hasn't really sat deep - personally, i think more often than not we'll see performances closer to the shrewsbury game, where we'll have to defend for periods of the game but have more scope to counter - if this is the case, we could be in for something much more like under ranieri than people are expecting, and yes, i do think we have the squad to play like that.

[Lillehamring]

On 05/08/2024 at 12:25, coolhandfox said:

That's my concerned too, it seem is the club wanted a manager willing to carry on similar system, he use a different way to get there with the fullback but that seems to be the plan. 

 

We don't have the fullbacks with the right attributes to push up and become a winger in possession, you need some dynamic who can beat a man and provide 7 or 8 assists from that area, which is coming from VK, Ricardo or Justin.  

 

If we are going to make this system work we need a new forward, at least 1 ACM if not 2, and a rampaging left full back who can play the FB come Left winger role. 

 

With our current squad options, I would go for a counter attacking 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.

 

SC showed at Forest he was willing to be  change mid-season, only hope is we aren't cut a drift by that stage.

And i think we'll see that in most games - it's what we did against shrewsbury (admittedly with a very odd squad selection; for various reasons) - i think pre-season has led us into a false sense of what is to come, because both ausburg and palermo played with a very low block - but i wouldn't expect to see that approach against us very often in the PL - I don't think we'll have many games where we're going to be huffing about trying to break teams down - teams are likely to come at us.  do we have the quality defensively to deal with that? - who knows - but i think we do have defenders who are more than capable of triggering  counter attacks, and pace up front to take advantage of it - we just never really got to see much of that part of cooper's game plan in pre-season.

[Lillehamring]

On 05/08/2024 at 12:31, pmcla26 said:

I don't understand why Cooper seems to be forcing this when we have an ideal player in Ricardo to invert and the rest of the players around him are used to it too, now. 

It's one thing to do that against preston, an entirely different thing to do in the prem.

[pmcla26]

9 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

It's one thing to do that against preston, an entirely different thing to do in the prem.

But you play to your players strengths, in Ricardo and Winks you have two players who can do it very well and who have played at the highest level and performed in their career - neither of them were ever Championship level footballers. It also got the best out of Vestergaard (if he is to be a starter this season for Cooper).

 

I don't see us having a single full-back on the squad with the ability to be effective whilst getting up and down the line (apart from maybe Kristiansen - we will see after his spell at Bologna). 

 

It also doesn't make us any more exposed defensively. By inverting, you get a 3 at the back and 2 at defensive midfield in your defensive "rest position". It's the same as when 1 full-back bombs down the line. The other stays and you get a 3 at the back and then a 2 in holding midfield from the double pivot that replaces the inverted full-back. 

 

It's more in possession that worries me than defensively by removing the inverting full-back. You won't see one of Mavididi or Fatawu as high this season when we have the ball if they are having to link play with an overlapping full-back.

[Kasey Keller]

Tactics are keep the score respectable lads…..

[Gamble92]

“As a football fan, nothing should be off limits with your coach"

 

Damn, wish I'd married Steve Cooper instead of the Wife. 

[Lambert09]

At what point do we accept that Enzo made an average group of players look too good for the championship?!

[Old Fox]

31 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

At what point do we accept that Enzo made an average group of players look too good for the championship?!

Rubbish - the gap between the championship and prem is massive - we have gone backwards due to poor recruitment, selling our most attacking link between midfield and attack, appointing a completely average manager with a different approach. Preseason has been a shambles due to lack of fixtures not helped by Enzo ……Cooper won’t keep us up but no one would with this squad …….

[murphy]

39 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

At what point do we accept that Enzo made an average group of players look too good for the championship?!

Before we talk ourselves into thinking everything would be fine if only we had kept Enzo and not got Cooper, just stop and imagine these players trying to play Maresca's way in The PL.  It would have been carnage.

 

I'm disappointed with the way we are looking, but phlegmatic.  We have a weaker side (so far) than the side that got promoted and a much weaker side than the one that got relegated.  We have PSR problems and impending points deduction and we are shopping in the bargain bin while potential targets are crossing the street to avoid us.  

 

This season was always gonna be a slog and we are certs to go down.

 

I quite liked the Championship anyway.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

Before we talk ourselves into thinking everything would be fine if only we had kept Enzo and not got Cooper, just stop and imagine these players trying to play Maresca's way in The PL.  It would have been carnage.

It is pointless speculating on this, but I would say had Enzo stayed, the players we got in through the door this summer would no doubt have been a lot different than the one’s we’ve actually seen.

 

Enzo knew the sort of players he wanted to effect his system - and probably has a better contact book and pull factor.

[SafewayFox]

3 minutes ago, murphy said:

Before we talk ourselves into thinking everything would be fine if only we had kept Enzo and not got Cooper, just stop and imagine these players trying to play Maresca's way in The PL.  It would have been carnage.

 

I'm disappointed with the way we are looking, but phlegmatic.  We have a weaker side (so far) than the side that got promoted and a much weaker side than the one that got relegated.  We have PSR problems and impending points deduction and we are shopping in the bargain bin while potential targets are crossing the street to avoid us.  

 

This season was always gonna be a slog and we are certs to go down.

 

I quite liked the Championship anyway.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment.

 

The painful admission from your post is the fact the players have gone from a well drilled team to looking nervous, devoid of confidence and quite frankly amateur in comparison to the passages of play that we witnessed last season.

 

Enzo was a stubborn mule and I hated his lack of pragmatism when our wheels appeared to be coming off last season but I will openly hold my hand up and say I was wrong, I miss Enzo - he choose to leave though but the board went for the cheap/lazy option.

[funkyrobot]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

Before we talk ourselves into thinking everything would be fine if only we had kept Enzo and not got Cooper, just stop and imagine these players trying to play Maresca's way in The PL.  It would have been carnage.

 

I'm disappointed with the way we are looking, but phlegmatic.  We have a weaker side (so far) than the side that got promoted and a much weaker side than the one that got relegated.  We have PSR problems and impending points deduction and we are shopping in the bargain bin while potential targets are crossing the street to avoid us.  

 

This season was always gonna be a slog and we are certs to go down.

 

I quite liked the Championship anyway.

We have a weaker squad than the team that got us promoted definitely, the loss of the creativity of KDH, as well as the quality squad depth of Nacho, Praet and Akgun has gone BUT Cooper isn’t even picking the best players. He's benching some of them! If you’ve got a weaker squad but you are actively selecting a weaker starting 11 out of that weaker squad and even then playing some of this starting 11 in less effective roles,  then the outcome that we’ve seen is inevitable! 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

Before we talk ourselves into thinking everything would be fine if only we had kept Enzo and not got Cooper, just stop and imagine these players trying to play Maresca's way in The PL.  It would have been carnage.

 

I'm disappointed with the way we are looking, but phlegmatic.  We have a weaker side (so far) than the side that got promoted and a much weaker side than the one that got relegated.  We have PSR problems and impending points deduction and we are shopping in the bargain bin while potential targets are crossing the street to avoid us.  

 

This season was always gonna be a slog and we are certs to go down.

 

I quite liked the Championship anyway.

I think it has gone too far the other way. The belief that anything would be better than Maresca's style is/ was strong but I genuinely don't see it being an improvement.