Development/Youth Squads 2024/2025 Thread - U18/U21

[coolhandfox]

I don't think it has anything to do with pathways.

 

If Liverpool or Man City come calling, most players will go. 

 

1 hour ago, AjcW said:

I understand this in some respects, but as Ric says, on the surface of things you've got a better chance of breaking in the first team at Liverpool as a youngster than you have here, and that is a disgrace. 

With some respect, they are going to attract a higher quality player in the first place who has more of a chance to make it. 

 

It also depends on what you call breaking in the first team; for me, it gets in and then stays in the squad and plays 50-odd games for the club.

 

They have had the likes of Joe Gomez, TAA, Curtis Jones, and Kelleher break in and hang around in the last 5 or 6 years, compared to Chilwell, Barnes, KHD, Thomas, Hamza etc.

 

Where they are better is developing people who make a limited amount of apps to sell for a profit, which is helped by their profile. 

 

 

Edited 2 September by coolhandfox

[thegaffa]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

I don't think it has anything to do with pathways.

 

If Liverpool or Man City come calling, most players will go. 

 

With some respect, they are going to attract a higher quality player in the first place who has more of a chance to make it. 

 

It also depends on what you call breaking in the first team; for me, it gets in and then stays in the squad and plays 50-odd games for the club.

 

They have had the likes of Joe Gomez, TAA, Curtis Jones, and Kelleher break in and hang around in the last 5 or 6 years, compared to Chilwell, Barnes, KHD, Thomas, Hamza etc.

 

Where they are better is developing people who make a limited amount of apps to sell for a profit, which is helped by their profile. 

 

 

Liverpool have given those players a chance but Kelleher was signed at 17 from an Irish team and they bought Gomez from Charlton when he had already played 20+ first team games at 17/18 years old.

 

so not quite like the ones you mentioned that have come through our academy.

[mazarron fox]

Can anybody explain to me what the rules are with youngsters signing for clubs? Do they have contracts? Are they allowed to sign for any club before a certain age? When does compensation kick in? Genuinely interested. 

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

I don't think it has anything to do with pathways.

 

If Liverpool or Man City come calling, most players will go. 

 

With some respect, they are going to attract a higher quality player in the first place who has more of a chance to make it. 

 

It also depends on what you call breaking in the first team; for me, it gets in and then stays in the squad and plays 50-odd games for the club.

 

They have had the likes of Joe Gomez, TAA, Curtis Jones, and Kelleher break in and hang around in the last 5 or 6 years, compared to Chilwell, Barnes, KHD, Thomas, Hamza etc.

 

Where they are better is developing people who make a limited amount of apps to sell for a profit, which is helped by their profile. 

 

 

I think it's easy to look at Nyoni for example. He's in and around Liverpool's 1st team aged 16. Would he have been with us? Possibly under Enzo in the Championship, under Cooper in the Prem? Absolutely not.

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I think it's easy to look at Nyoni for example. He's in and around Liverpool's 1st team aged 16. Would he have been with us? Possibly under Enzo in the Championship, under Cooper in the Prem? Absolutely not.

How many minutes has he played? 

 

12 mins in a FA Cup and been on the bench 6 times. 

 

 

Edited 2 September by coolhandfox

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

How many minutes has he played? 

Been on the bench a chunk of times, come on once or twice within a year of going there. The year prior with us, I think he'd played about 4 U21 games, let alone got near the 1st team training or matchday squads.

 

He'd feel vindicated in his decision in that regard.

[Webbo]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Been on the bench a chunk of times, come on once or twice within a year of going there. The year prior with us, I think he'd played about 4 U21 games, let alone got near the 1st team training or matchday squads.

 

He'd feel vindicated in his decision in that regard.

In the year prior, would he still have been 15?

[coolhandfox]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Been on the bench a chunk of times, come on once or twice within a year of going there. The year prior with us, I think he'd played about 4 U21 games, let alone got near the 1st team training or matchday squads.

 

He'd feel vindicated in his decision in that regard.

12 mins in a FA Cup and been on the bench 6 times. 

 

No sure that a vindication, let see how it goes. 

 

So do you think if Forest had offered him more minutes he'd have chosen them over Liverpool?

 

I personally we should have a club policy were we always have at least 1 academy prospect on the bench with 9 subs, how may time last season when we were cruising 3 or 4 could we have bloodied someone. 

Edited 2 September by coolhandfox

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

In the year prior, would he still have been 15?

Difficult one to call on whether he'd have got fast tracked from U18s in to our 1st team last season, I suspect he'd have had a chance under Enzo but under Cooper? Come off it.

 

That's the risk at the minute. I'm fascinated by what we do with Monga. The club by all accounts are still reeling from Nyoni leaving and I don't blame us for what happened there. However if our 1st team manager won't provide a pathway to the 1st team in the short term for the likes of Alves and that filters down then we'll lose more.

 

The last decade we've worked extremely hard to identify and produce players that will put us up there with the very best academies. The only way we compete with those for not nicking our players if we can be extremely good at bringing them through.

 

I don't think that happens under Cooper.

[Webbo]

Coopers first priority is to keep us up. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but he has to play, what he sees as our strongest team. Blooding youngsters is a luxury you can afford when you're safe. There's too much money involved to do anything else.

[coolhandfox]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Difficult one to call on whether he'd have got fast tracked from U18s in to our 1st team last season, I suspect he'd have had a chance under Enzo but under Cooper? Come off it.

 

That's the risk at the minute. I'm fascinated by what we do with Monga. The club by all accounts are still reeling from Nyoni leaving and I don't blame us for what happened there. However if our 1st team manager won't provide a pathway to the 1st team in the short term for the likes of Alves and that filters down then we'll lose more.

 

The last decade we've worked extremely hard to identify and produce players that will put us up there with the very best academies. The only way we compete with those for not nicking our players if we can be extremely good at bringing them through.

 

I don't think that happens under Cooper.

I'm encouraged by the amount of loans this season which seems a step in the right direction, see the las get minutes at the weekend Braybrooke get (65), Popov (90) Cover (75), Richards (22) Thomas (101).

 

I assume Alves is the only one seen to be first team ready. 

 

I will be fuming is he doesn't get a start in the next league cup round. 

Edited 2 September by coolhandfox

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

Coopers first priority is to keep us up. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but he has to play, what he sees as our strongest team. Blooding youngsters is a luxury you can afford when you're safe. There's too much money involved to do anything else.

Such a lazy and short sighted view. Bottom line is this club does not reach its ambitions without developing and bringing through top class academy players. 

 

We have done in the past, this isn't a criticism we're crap at it, more we've either employed a manager who goes against what should and has been a priority of ours or he's moved the goalposts in what he said he'll do. 

 

Take that £120m we generated on Chilwell, Barnes and KDH away and we'd have gone bust in the last few years. We have ongoing financial issues and whilst producing and developing academy players purely to sell to solve our financial mismanagement is depressing but I don't see much evidence we've learnt our lessons much and that's a thing of the past.

 

But anyway, having a club value and priority that places academy development in to the 1st team as a non negotiable requirement, regardless of the expectations and pressures of survival is not a good enough reason not to do it. You can't be the buyer and the seller here.

 

Some clubs decide that's their blue print. You have to be brave to do it. 

 

Wonder what Cooper's views are on how Atletico Bilbao operate. 

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I'm encouraged by the amount of loans this season which seems a step in the right direction, see the las get minutes at the weekend Braybrooke get (65), Popov (90) Cover (75), Richards (22) Thomas (101).

 

I assume Alves is the only one seen to be first team ready. 

 

I will be fuming is he doesn't get a start in the next league cup round. 

Yes, I'm glad we've got players out on loan, that seems to be the best solution short term. Alves needed to go on loan, but we'll see. If Cooper doesn't use him between now and January then there'll be no defending him, I'm willing to wait and see as he said he was deciding what best to do with him.

 

I think it's the uncertainty in the early decision making from Cooper that's blowing this up. Josh Holland's article in the Mercury last week was very good.

 

At the very least I hope the club are acutely aware.

[Webbo]

16 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Such a lazy and short sighted view. Bottom line is this club does not reach its ambitions without developing and bringing through top class academy players. 

 

We have done in the past, this isn't a criticism we're crap at it, more we've either employed a manager who goes against what should and has been a priority of ours or he's moved the goalposts in what he said he'll do. 

 

Take that £120m we generated on Chilwell, Barnes and KDH away and we'd have gone bust in the last few years. We have ongoing financial issues and whilst producing and developing academy players purely to sell to solve our financial mismanagement is depressing but I don't see much evidence we've learnt our lessons much and that's a thing of the past.

 

But anyway, having a club value and priority that places academy development in to the 1st team as a non negotiable requirement, regardless of the expectations and pressures of survival is not a good enough reason not to do it. You can't be the buyer and the seller here.

 

Some clubs decide that's their blue print. You have to be brave to do it. 

 

Wonder what Cooper's views are on how Atletico Bilbao operate. 

Are athletico bilbao likely to get relegated?

Edited 2 September by Webbo

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/leicester-city-notebook-free-agent-9525363

Sport

By

Jordan Blackwell

• 13:41, 2 SEP 2024

Early promise from Under-18s
Also making an undefeated start to the league season are City’s Under-18s. They thrashed reigning South division champions Chelsea 5-2 at the weekend to take their tally to seven points from their opening three matches, leaving them behind only Tottenham in the table.

City have plenty of excellent prospects at Under-18 level, with many stepping up from last season’s Under-16 squad, who won the Premier League Cup in May. Fifteen-year-old Jeremy Monga, who was in the triumphant Under-16s team and has represented the Under-21s this term, got his first goal for the Under-18s in the victory over Chelsea.

But leading the scoring so far is a new recruit. Laolu Omobolaji signed for the club from Crystal Palace earlier this year and has four goals in three outings so far this season.

[BKLFox]

For all the we don't play the youth comments & they have more chance at a big 6 club, don't we hold some sort of record (or at least up there) for playing the most consecutive games with at least 1 academy player in the team?

It was 1st mentioned when the training ground was opened that it would / could take up to 10yrs for it to start really reaping rewards from the academy side, we are pushing towards the halfway point in that estimate & we have quite a crop on the cusp of breaking through with most going out on loan, we also have a few of the lower age groups starting to get mentioned, not sure there has been a time when we seem to have such a large crop being talked about.

It's also worth noting that this crop we are talking about now are younger than the previous group that sat in the U21s despite being 23 & of those 23yr olds who has actually made it at a bigger club?
I think we are doing well & will start to see them push on into the 1st team after their loans, or in the cups in the case of Alves, & will become useful assets on the spreadsheets as well as the pitch.

[Ric Flair]

47 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Are athletico bilbao likely to get relegated?

Would they suddenly start changing their principles if they were? Rhetoric question as they've never been relegated but it's still a brave policy they stick with, which you could argue in a results based profession might change.

 

My club vision would be that if we are relegation battlers for the foreseeable then we do that whilst developing academy players. If the manager has a problem with that, tell him to get on with it. 

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

For all the we don't play the youth comments & they have more chance at a big 6 club, don't we hold some sort of record (or at least up there) for playing the most consecutive games with at least 1 academy player in the team?

It was 1st mentioned when the training ground was opened that it would / could take up to 10yrs for it to start really reaping rewards from the academy side, we are pushing towards the halfway point in that estimate & we have quite a crop on the cusp of breaking through with most going out on loan, we also have a few of the lower age groups starting to get mentioned, not sure there has been a time when we seem to have such a large crop being talked about.

It's also worth noting that this crop we are talking about now are younger than the previous group that sat in the U21s despite being 23 & of those 23yr olds who has actually made it at a bigger club?
I think we are doing well & will start to see them push on into the 1st team after their loans, or in the cups in the case of Alves, & will become useful assets on the spreadsheets as well as the pitch.

Which is precisely why some of us are anxious this doesn't fall down the list of priorities whilst we battle short term survival. So much hard work has gone in to this.

[lcfc sheff]

as a whole I think this is our most promising group of players as a whole, difficult to say if they'll reach the values of a Barnes, Chilwell or KDH but the loan moves are really positive and truly believe all of them bar Young have a future here.

[lcfc sheff]

might be new training ground related or not but should bring a few better generations of players as a whole going forward rather than just one or two who make it.

[st albans fox]

Now that forest have spent a couple of years in the PL and Villa are PL established (and now in the CL), are we likely to enter a very competitive period for youngsters from n and w Leicestershire?? 

[Webbo]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Would they suddenly start changing their principles if they were. 

Probably, yeah

[UniFox21]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Such a lazy and short sighted view. Bottom line is this club does not reach its ambitions without developing and bringing through top class academy players. 

 

We have done in the past, this isn't a criticism we're crap at it, more we've either employed a manager who goes against what should and has been a priority of ours or he's moved the goalposts in what he said he'll do. 

 

Take that £120m we generated on Chilwell, Barnes and KDH away and we'd have gone bust in the last few years. We have ongoing financial issues and whilst producing and developing academy players purely to sell to solve our financial mismanagement is depressing but I don't see much evidence we've learnt our lessons much and that's a thing of the past.

 

But anyway, having a club value and priority that places academy development in to the 1st team as a non negotiable requirement, regardless of the expectations and pressures of survival is not a good enough reason not to do it. You can't be the buyer and the seller here.

 

Some clubs decide that's their blue print. You have to be brave to do it. 

 

Wonder what Cooper's views are on how Atletico Bilbao operate. 

Managers don't look at the long term view though mate. Why would they plan for a few years down the line when there's a good chance they'll be gone in 6/12 months? 

[The_Rorab]

22 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Probably, yeah

I mean, they've been playing only Basque or Basque-raised/related players since 1912, and have been in seasons where they could have been relegated such as a 17th placed finish in 06/07 where they didn't decide against the policy - I highly doubt they'd suddenly reverse 112 years of tradition for a relegation fight.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, The_Rorab said:

I mean, they've been playing only Basque or Basque-raised/related players since 1912, and have been in seasons where they could have been relegated such as a 17th placed finish in 06/07 where they didn't decide against the policy - I highly doubt they'd suddenly reverse 112 years of tradition for a relegation fight.

Do they insist on always player youth team players when they're desperate for points?

BTW, try suggesting on here that we should only play English players on here and see what reaction you get.