How will you vote on Thursday?

[Sly]

16 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

It's too exhausting, and I am depressed enough with what's going on in the USA to attack a good human.

I think the reality is, none of these parties fit anyone. This labour is more right. The Tories have gone far right. 
 

The world is a mess and maybe it just needs a new approach. 
 

I’d like to think that’s something we can all agree on. 

[Daggers]

29 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I agree ‘nothing fookin works’.

But I can talk with some authority about the NHS. It is NOT only about money. We have wards we could open tomorrow, but we can’t staff them. There aren’t enough staff, nationally.
However, when I told you yesterday that the picture IS improving slightly under the Tories (at least, in my area), we are now starting to get more staff again. Both registered and unregistered are slowly starting to increase in numbers, such that the reliance on agency staff is lessening significantly.
Chucking more dosh at anything, without effective budget management, effective recruitment campaigns AND the Labour market being available, will change nothing.

 

Our General has had a hiring freeze in place since before Covid in almost all departments. Capital projects have been on hold or slashed while target failures are so commonplace it’s a new normal. Black alerts happen on an almost daily basis with constant breaching. My wife is a senior manager, 12 hour days are now the norm, 24hr shifts frequent, as she covers the positions of two staff who have not been replaced for three years. 
 

The situation is not improving on a national basis, even if you think it is at your site, and I don’t believe it’s a money-only solve and never claimed it was. 

[StanSP]

56 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

We have wards we could open tomorrow, but we can’t staff them. There aren’t enough staff, nationally.

Have you considered what event(s) might have influenced this? Perhaps around 2016...? 

[Bilo]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

Because.....?

His newspaper/social media echo chamber told him to think that.

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Bilo said:

His newspaper/social media echo chamber told him to think that.

It was a largely performative/rhetorical question, but thank you all the same.

[worth_the_wait]

As at Tuesday morning, the voting intentions of the FoxesTalk jury were:
Labour       55.75%
Reform       19.54%
Lib Dem       9.77%
Other         9.2%
Green         3.45%
Conservative  2.3%

 

It will be interesting to see how this compares with the actual votes cast on Thursday.

 

Will FoxesTalk be representative of the United Kingdom as a whole?  Or totally unrepresentative?

 

I know where my money is!
 

[Sampson]

4 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

As at Tuesday morning, the voting intentions of the FoxesTalk jury were:
Labour       55.75%
Reform       19.54%
Lib Dem       9.77%
Other         9.2%
Green         3.45%
Conservative  2.3%

 

It will be interesting to see how this compares with the actual votes cast on Thursday.

 

Will FoxesTalk be representative of the United Kingdom as a whole?  Or totally unrepresentative?

 

I know where my money is!
 

Apart from the Conservatives it seems fairly representative, but the Conservative vote has also completely collapsed amongst the under 65s and I’d imagine the demographics here are more skewed with a less proportionate amount of older 65s

[Babylon]

Reform 20% 

 

The leaflet I got through my door, was by far the most ridiculous election gumph so far. Basically, we'll sort absolutely everything, you'll pay less for everything, no more tax, we'll sort immigration, despite there not really being an aveneue to cut it more than it already is.

[leicsmac]

57 minutes ago, Sly said:

I think the reality is, none of these parties fit anyone. This labour is more right. The Tories have gone far right. 
 

The world is a mess and maybe it just needs a new approach. 
 

I’d like to think that’s something we can all agree on. 

And will only get messier.

 

Not sure how that will be addressed successfully, but I would posit that better cooperation would help.

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

I agree ‘nothing fookin works’.

But I can talk with some authority about the NHS. It is NOT only about money. We have wards we could open tomorrow, but we can’t staff them. There aren’t enough staff, nationally.
However, when I told you yesterday that the picture IS improving slightly under the Tories (at least, in my area), we are now starting to get more staff again. Both registered and unregistered are slowly starting to increase in numbers, such that the reliance on agency staff is lessening significantly.
Chucking more dosh at anything, without effective budget management, effective recruitment campaigns AND the Labour market being available, will change nothing.

 

It's going to cost money to staff all those those wards, though. I have zero expertise on the matter despite various family members working in the NHS, but suspect they need dosh plus the recruitment campaigns and budget management you mention.

 

It's also improving from a very low starting point, which we got to under Tory rule. It's a bit like setting a place ablaze then standing proudly in one corner of the building with a watering can proclaiming 'this bit's almost okay though'.

[Tommy Fresh]

24 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Reform 20% 

 

The leaflet I got through my door, was by far the most ridiculous election gumph so far. Basically, we'll sort absolutely everything, you'll pay less for everything, no more tax, we'll sort immigration, despite there not really being an aveneue to cut it more than it already is.

I had one, good laugh to read on its way to the bin

[FoxyPV]

48 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

It's going to cost money to staff all those those wards, though. I have zero expertise on the matter despite various family members working in the NHS, but suspect they need dosh plus the recruitment campaigns and budget management you mention.

 

It's also improving from a very low starting point, which we got to under Tory rule. It's a bit like setting a place ablaze then standing proudly in one corner of the building with a watering can proclaiming 'this bit's almost okay though'.

You also need multi year budgets to do any planning. Most budgets are year to year and funding is assigned at quickest in late May

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, Sly said:

I think the reality is, none of these parties fit anyone. This labour is more right. The Tories have gone far right. 
 

The world is a mess and maybe it just needs a new approach. 
 

I’d like to think that’s something we can all agree on. 

I think a big problem with the current Labour campaign is they are sticking to the old adage “you win from the centre” and “Britain is a small c conservative country”

 

But tbh since 2016, I don’t think you can rely on those things anymore, it’s clear that we are operating in very different times now, social media and demographic changes have torn down the status quo and you can’t rely on these old adages anymore.
 

Tories purged the moderates from their party and became a hard right party and the only reason they’re losing is because Farage has split the vote. Corbyn did also spark a left wing movement for a while in 2017 which probably also will be resurrected in the future.

 

Macron did the same in France and tried to hold onto this adage however it he pandered to the hard right too much to the point at which he’s now just seen as a lighter version of it. 

Edited 2 July by Sampson

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I think a big problem with the current Labour campaign is they are sticking to the old adage “you win from the centre” and “Britain is a small c conservative country”

 

But tbh since 2016, I don’t think you can rely on those things anymore, it’s clear that we are operating in very different times now, social media and demographic changes have torn down the status quo and you can’t rely on these old adages anymore.
 

Tories purged the moderates from their party and became a hard right party and the only reason they’re losing is because Farage has split the vote. Corbyn did also spark a left wing movement for a while in 2017 which probably also will be resurrected in the future.

 

Macron did the same in France and tried to hold onto this adage however it he pandered to the hard right too much to the point at which he’s now just seen as a lighter version of it. 

There's something in that.

 

The digital age has changed things - for better and worse.

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

There's something in that.

 

The digital age has changed things - for better and worse.

Algorithms, they are creating echo chambers everywhere people go. There aren't a mix of opinions, they are served just one opinion. At least is someone used to read the Sun, they may get exposed to another point of view on the radio, or the TV. 

 

Now, so much of peoples time is just spend on social media / the internet / streaming, away from the traditional broadcast media, I think it's worse than ever. 

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Reform 20% 

 

The leaflet I got through my door, was by far the most ridiculous election gumph so far. Basically, we'll sort absolutely everything, you'll pay less for everything, no more tax, we'll sort immigration, despite there not really being an aveneue to cut it more than it already is.

 

 

"This thread is also about the largely hidden links between Reform UK & a powerful network involving opaquely-funded think tanks, shadowy PR firms, the Evangelical Christian Right, fossil fuel interests & media baron Paul Marshall, & how they conspire to shape public opinion."

[StanSP]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Reform 20% 

 

The leaflet I got through my door, was by far the most ridiculous election gumph so far. Basically, we'll sort absolutely everything, you'll pay less for everything, no more tax, we'll sort immigration, despite there not really being an aveneue to cut it more than it already is.

I had similar the other day. Tried to give it some credence and attention compared to what other parties had posted. 

 

I just cannot buy that they'll do anything for me, as a constituent under their power in the ward if they got in, or nationally. 

 

They have absolutely no substance to anything they're promising. 

[Babylon]

27 minutes ago, Daggers said:

 

 

"This thread is also about the largely hidden links between Reform UK & a powerful network involving opaquely-funded think tanks, shadowy PR firms, the Evangelical Christian Right, fossil fuel interests & media baron Paul Marshall, & how they conspire to shape public opinion."

Who are they controlling on here 

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Algorithms, they are creating echo chambers everywhere people go. There aren't a mix of opinions, they are served just one opinion. At least is someone used to read the Sun, they may get exposed to another point of view on the radio, or the TV. 

 

Now, so much of peoples time is just spend on social media / the internet / streaming, away from the traditional broadcast media, I think it's worse than ever. 

I think such echo chambers existed before when people simply didn't have access to much information at all and so had to rely on one source for their truth. But now we have instead a situation where the truth is the matter of the highest bidder or the most charismatic orator online and is delivered to people on demand, and so you get the same situation again for different reasons.

 

Goodness knows I've gone on about the subversion of the idea of truth on here before, but it represents a real hazard for the future because when the consequences of actions based on that untruth are natural consequences, they don't stop to negotiate or pander to people's delusions. They just happen, and what people think is the truth won't save them.

[Benguin]

Reform vote is interesting - Typically this forum has been a fair bit more left wing than the general public, so if Reform are getting 20% on here I’d anticipate more like 30% in the real world. Although popular vote doesn’t equate to seats, i think they will become the third biggest party this election. If conservatives voters cut their losses and vote reform on Thursday they might even eclipse the tories. I don’t necessarily like Reform but I’d prefer Farage as the leader of the opposition to Rishi

[FOXYTALK]

Based on the manifestos supplied it's slim pickings. Based on childcare it's going to be the lid dems.

[jgtuk]

17 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Reform vote is interesting - Typically this forum has been a fair bit more left wing than the general public, so if Reform are getting 20% on here I’d anticipate more like 30% in the real world. Although popular vote doesn’t equate to seats, i think they will become the third biggest party this election. If conservatives voters cut their losses and vote reform on Thursday they might even eclipse the tories. I don’t necessarily like Reform but I’d prefer Farage as the leader of the opposition to Rishi

That’s like Choosing between dog sh1t and cat sh1t 

[Izzy]

21 minutes ago, Benguin said:

I don’t necessarily like Reform but I’d prefer Farage as the leader of the opposition to Rishi

Sunak won’t continue as Tory leader when they lose will he? I assume he’ll fvck off to the US or something. 

[ozleicester]

24 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Reform vote is interesting - Typically this forum has been a fair bit more left wing than the general public, so if Reform are getting 20% on here I’d anticipate more like 30% in the real world. Although popular vote doesn’t equate to seats, i think they will become the third biggest party this election. If conservatives voters cut their losses and vote reform on Thursday they might even eclipse the tories. I don’t necessarily like Reform but I’d prefer Farage as the leader of the opposition to Rishi

Arent you a christian?

[Guest Col city fan]

3 hours ago, inckley fox said:

It's going to cost money to staff all those those wards, though. I have zero expertise on the matter despite various family members working in the NHS, but suspect they need dosh plus the recruitment campaigns and budget management you mention.

 

It's also improving from a very low starting point, which we got to under Tory rule. It's a bit like setting a place ablaze then standing proudly in one corner of the building with a watering can proclaiming 'this bit's almost okay though'.

The money is there mate

We cant get the staff due to there not being enough nurses nationally. We’re recruiting again this year for International Nurses. Brexit has had zero impact on this. Zero.. which is great because some of the IR Nurses are superb to work with.

No politics or sarcasm here, I’m just telling you what I’m seeing.

In terms of ‘from a low starting point’, the areas I work in haven’t changed under the Tories in terms of service delivery, funding for posts etc. In fact, many new posts have been created.To try to paint a picture akin to ‘everything was great, to everything’s gone to shite’.. all I can say, is I haven’t seen that in MY areas. Waiting times for hospital appointments have been awful for years, exacerbated by covid no doubt about it, but now (from what I see) are starting to bounce back, albeit slowly.

Some of the guys on here have set agendas and are ‘in the know’ (I question that frequently) and will never even conceive of changing their political allegiance.

All I can say is what I see. 
The reason why Labour got voted out many years ago wasn’t because the Tories were seen as being particularly brilliant, or trustworthy etc. It was because Labour’s term had come to an end. And people with short memories will not remember what a fook up THEY were making of things.

Labour are now seen as the panacea to cure all the country’s ills. Let’s see how long that lasts.

Im firmly in the sceptical of all of them camp. Which is why I’m likely to abstain this time. And that would be the first time I ever have.

Edited 2 July by Col city fan