Izzy Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June 3 minutes ago, leicsmac said: You're asking for an epistocracy there which on at least some matters might be better. The problem however lies in picking the damn epistocrats because everyone has a different definition of what an expert should know, be and do. I know it's not practical or workable but I'm tired of safe seats, tactical voting, points scoring, negative campaigning, incompetent ministers etc, etc. I listen to Starmer and Sunak talk shit then watch Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart have an adult conversation and just think there must be a better way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June It’s close between Reform and Spoilt Ballot I feel like I need to agree with at least 51% of a parties views to get behind them. I probably do with Conservatives but can’t forgive their reign. I don’t think Labour know what they stand for or besides being against the tories. Green are too liberal, Lib Dems too wishy washy. I think I agree with about 40% of what Farage says so that’s the closest but currently planning to spoil vote. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June 5 minutes ago, Izzy said: I know it's not practical or workable but I'm tired of safe seats, tactical voting, points scoring, negative campaigning, incompetent ministers etc, etc. I listen to Starmer and Sunak talk shit then watch Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart have an adult conversation and just think there must be a better way. Fair to say. I honestly think that a one-size-fits-all policymaking process as we appear to have here in the form of the Commons and Lords Bill processes, while mostly effective, has weaknesses that could become all to apparent - mostly not thinking enough of the long-term. But perhaps that's an acceptable flaw, huge as it may prove, because every other possible method of policymaking is worse overall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Fair to say. I honestly think that a one-size-fits-all policymaking process as we appear to have here in the form of the Commons and Lords Bill processes, while mostly effective, has weaknesses that could become all to apparent - mostly not thinking enough of the long-term. But perhaps that's an acceptable flaw, huge as it may prove, because every other possible method of policymaking is worse overall. You're far more informed than me mate so I bow to your superior knowledge. All I know is the number of posters on this thread alone thinking of not voting or spoiling their paper says a lot to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's apathetic and disengaged with the whole thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June 9 minutes ago, Izzy said: You're far more informed than me mate so I bow to your superior knowledge. All I know is the number of posters on this thread alone thinking of not voting or spoiling their paper says a lot to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's apathetic and disengaged with the whole thing. There appear to be a great many looking to do exactly as you say or look for a third option - namely Reform, for the most part. None of those things end well IMO. I totally agree that we need a better system mate and that's why I mentioned the flaws in the current one above, I just wish I knew how best to implement it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June At least you don’t have to choose between Trump or Biden… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June 7 minutes ago, MPH said: At least you don’t have to choose between Trump or Biden… Agreed. (Aside from a cursory look at the policies making that choice crystal clear and obvious to anyone with a modicum of empathy beyond their own line of sight, though.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June 1 hour ago, Izzy said: I dunno exactly but I'm more in favor of PR than FPTP. All I want is the best brains running the country rather than one particular party having all the power. I know I'm dreaming but just wish we could pool the best talent from all corners of the political spectrum to come together collaboratively and do what's the best for the country. Your choice but I'd advise voting for a party in favour of PR instead of just sitting at home. Nobody in charge is going to assume you want change if you just sit at home on Thursday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June (edited) 6 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: Your choice but I'd advise voting for a party in favour of PR instead of just sitting at home. Nobody in charge is going to assume you want change if you just sit at home on Thursday. Exactly. Several of the main parties advocate for PR and refusing to vote for it isn’t going to cause change. People should have the right not to vote, but refusing to vote because you want the system to change strikes me as incredibly counter-intuitive. You don’t have to vote Labour or Tory and even if the smaller party you vote for doesn’t get seats the more a party gets votes, the more they influence policy and change the discussions of the public forum. Edited 30 June by Sampson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 30 June Share Posted 30 June Voted Conservative last time, easy vote. Will vote Labour this time, easy vote. Have not even come close to changing my mind through the election period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 3 hours ago, Izzy said: You're far more informed than me mate so I bow to your superior knowledge. All I know is the number of posters on this thread alone thinking of not voting or spoiling their paper says a lot to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's apathetic and disengaged with the whole thing. 4. 4 people out of 84 have said they’re “Other” in the poll above. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 2 hours ago, Voll Blau said: Your choice but I'd advise voting for a party in favour of PR instead of just sitting at home. Nobody in charge is going to assume you want change if you just sit at home on Thursday. How will the winning party know if your PR vote wasn’t just an insane vote for racism or throwing paint on national monuments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 1 July Author Share Posted 1 July (edited) 4 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said: You missed, "None of your business, nark!" from the options. Edited 1 July by ozleicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 1 July Author Share Posted 1 July (edited) 4 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said: You missed, "None of your business, nark!" from the options. four times Edited 1 July by ozleicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 1 July Author Share Posted 1 July (edited) four times... wasnt that funny the first Edited 1 July by ozleicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 1 July Author Share Posted 1 July 4 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said: You missed, "None of your business, nark!" from the options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHawk Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July I will not be complacent that Labour are piling into a massive victory and I'll be voting labour, same as 2019, very good local labour candidate who deserved my support in 2019 even if Corbyn didn't. She's standing again, so was always likely to be labour. I bit like Alf, I actually think Starmer is going to do a good job under the circumstances. I'm alot more hopeful that if they can steady the ship and build the foundations in term 1, a second term could be a bit more radical and make more of the changes they would like to make, but know they cannot afford at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebfromgrebland Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July (edited) 22 hours ago, Nalis said: We should probably do another one of these on Thursday anonymised, I'd genuinely be interested in seeing how many people are voting the likes of Reform. Probably best not to know. Edit. Sorry just noticed you said anonymous. But it looks like about a fifth of people on the reform side which is terrifying for me and my children. These people must look at Russia and think that's the life I want. Edited 1 July by Grebfromgrebland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HighPeakFox Posted 1 July Popular Post Share Posted 1 July 1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said: Probably best not to know. Edit. Sorry just noticed you said anonymous. But it looks like about a fifth of people on the reform side which is terrifying for me and my children. These people must look at Russia and think that's the life I want. One brave soul has said Reform is one of his choices. Given his religious/moral stance, the mind boggles. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July Given we had a referendum on changing the electoral system in 2011 which was lost, it would be most interesting to see certain groups calling for a change to PR after this election, confirming that actually it is OK to vote on something again within a short period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVFox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July Anybody still waiting to receive a postal vote? My wife applied for one this year and we still haven't had it through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleFox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July (edited) Voting Labour but can’t stand their current incarnation. It’s a “get the Tories out” vote. Would vote Green if purely on policies but (and I know this may not be the best mindset) no one other than Labour can challenge the Conservatives so I’d rather have an awful Labour Party that I hate in charge than the Tories. Just about. Jeez how depressing is that. Edited 1 July by RumbleFox 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lako42 Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July (edited) 14 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: Voting Labour but can’t stand their current incarnation. It’s a “get the Tories out” vote. Would vote Green if purely on policies but (and I know this may not be the best mindset) no one other than Labour can challenge the Conservatives so I’d rather have an awful Labour Party that I hate in charge than the Tories. Just about. Jeez how depressing is that. It is depressing but it's also not Labours fault that this election has become a 'get the Tories out' exercise. That is purely down to the fact that the Tories have ****ed everything up beyond levels even the most pessimistic of people could imagine. Not only have they presided over the worst government I can remember they have also destroyed any meaningful narrative that this election could have had. Edited 1 July by Lako42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleFox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 3 minutes ago, Lako42 said: It is depressing but it's also not Labours fault that this election has become a 'get the Tories out' exercise. That is purely down to the fact that the Tories have ****ed everything up beyond levels even the most pessimistic of people could imagine. Not only have they presided over the worst government I can remember they have also destroyed any meaningful narrative that this election could have had. It’s their fault they’ve abandoned the working people though. I LOVE the Labour Party. But I LOVE the idea of them. At their core, their roots, the idea of the Labour Party is beautiful. But they’ve let us all down. What they’ve become is ToryLite. Having said all that though, I’d would 100% want them in over the Conservatives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 51 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: One brave soul has said Reform is one of his choices. Given his religious/moral stance, the mind boggles. Was tempted to ask him directly, but didn't want to derail the thread. But yeah figures doesn't it voting Reform/Tories. Ain't no love like Christian love. I always thought the values encompassed caring for the poor and needy, something neither party has any interest in doing. To get the thread back on track, I'll be voting Labour. I'm not totally happy with them, but they stand the best chance of outing the Tories here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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