Sampson Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 53 minutes ago, ealingfox said: Given we had a referendum on changing the electoral system in 2011 which was lost, it would be most interesting to see certain groups calling for a change to PR after this election, confirming that actually it is OK to vote on something again within a short period of time. 13 years isn’t a short space of time at all. The demographics of the voting people's as well as popular opinion, culture and technology changes dramatically in that time. We change laws and governments in way less time than that all the time, as public opinion changes, governments should change choice too. Giving a vote only once in a blue moon doesn’t sound very democratic to me. I remember polls showing public opinion completely changed from being against to overwhelming for on same sex marriage within the space of like 3 or 4 years during the late 00’s for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 32 minutes ago, Sampson said: 13 years isn’t a short space of time at all. The demographics of the voting people's as well as popular opinion, culture and technology changes dramatically in that time. We change laws and governments in way less time than that all the time, as public opinion changes, governments should change choice too. Giving a vote only once in a blue moon doesn’t sound very democratic to me. I remember polls showing public opinion completely changed from being against to overwhelming for on same sex marriage within the space of like 3 or 4 years during the late 00’s for example. It is a relatively short space of time in the context of British political history, but that's not the point, which was that I suspect there aren't many Leave voters who would have accepted a second referendum on Brexit within 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torquay Gunner Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July Labour to get our local smug Tory out (elected in 2005!), but prefer Green policies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebfromgrebland Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 8 minutes ago, ealingfox said: It is a relatively short space of time in the context of British political history, but that's not the point, which was that I suspect there aren't many Leave voters who would have accepted a second referendum on Brexit within 15 years. You're right - its hard to object from the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Col city fan Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July I’m finding this election campaign fascinating. Three observations from me: 1. After years of fookin so many things up, the Tories actually do seem to be doing ok at the moment. Eg the economy and hospital appts seem to be an improving picture. 2. I think a lot of people will vote REFORM for precisely the reason that they are being ‘told’ they can’t or shouldn’t. I see it on this thread. People are seemingly becoming sick of being told how to think and react. 3. This feeling appears to be even stronger in France, where I see LePen’s popularity gaining considerable ground. Personally, I’m still unsure which way to vote. It won’t be Tory, I know that much. However, with the ridiculous FPTP system, my vote wouldn’t count for much anyway in the constituency I’m in (Blaby). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July Nobody. Aint got any photo ID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboFox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 3 users on the wind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HighPeakFox Posted 1 July Popular Post Share Posted 1 July 3 minutes ago, Col city fan said: I’m finding this election campaign fascinating. Three observations from me: 1. After years of fookin so many things up, the Tories actually do seem to be doing ok at the moment. Eg the economy and hospital appts seem to be an improving picture. 2. I think a lot of people will vote REFORM for precisely the reason that they are being ‘told’ they can’t or shouldn’t. I see it on this thread. People are seemingly becoming sick of being told how to think and react. 3. This feeling appears to be even stronger in France, where I see LePen’s popularity gaining considerable ground. Personally, I’m still unsure which way to vote. It won’t be Tory, I know that much. However, with the ridiculous FPTP system, my vote wouldn’t count for much anyway in the constituency I’m in (Blaby). No Col. People will vote Reform for a variety of reasons. Some of it is anger, some of it gullibility, some of it 'patriotism', some of it xenophobia and there will be many other factors. My own personal take is that people like Farage because they, like him, want to gob off without consequences or responsibility, and don't want to be challenged on their prejudices. He sells a simplistic fantasy and it appeals to a certain demographic. Given the rise of the far right generally, and the known Russian interference in our processes which was quietly ignored by the Tories when it suited them, and is going on again now, I find it all terrifying. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: No Col. People will vote Reform for a variety of reasons. Some of it is anger, some of it gullibility, some of it 'patriotism', some of it xenophobia and there will be many other factors. My own personal take is that people like Farage because they, like him, want to gob off without consequences or responsibility, and don't want to be challenged on their prejudices. He sells a simplistic fantasy and it appeals to a certain demographic. Given the rise of the far right generally, and the known Russian interference in our processes which was quietly ignored by the Tories when it suited them, and is going on again now, I find it all terrifying. The stance on the future in general from such parties is absolutely terrifying, and should be to pretty much anyone who actually has any kind of investment in that future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Col city fan Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July (edited) 11 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: No Col. People will vote Reform for a variety of reasons. Some of it is anger, some of it gullibility, some of it 'patriotism', some of it xenophobia and there will be many other factors. My own personal take is that people like Farage because they, like him, want to gob off without consequences or responsibility, and don't want to be challenged on their prejudices. He sells a simplistic fantasy and it appeals to a certain demographic. Given the rise of the far right generally, and the known Russian interference in our processes which was quietly ignored by the Tories when it suited them, and is going on again now, I find it all terrifying. This is you telling me though isn’t it mate? Exactly the point I’m making… It could well be that some people vote REFORM because they don’t trust the Tory liars, they don’t want the country to become even more ‘woke’, and cancel culture, they want to control the borders better and agree that the BBC (possibly the most hypocritical organisation in British history) needs dissolving. Theres always two sides to every coin. What I think people are sick of is being ‘told’ what’s right and wrong. They can make their own minds up in exactly the same way you do. I may well abstain actually. I don’t trust any of them. Tbh as much as I wouldn’t want to be associated with any form of racism, neither would I want to be ‘in the trenches’ with you either. Genuinely no offence intended. Edited 1 July by Col city fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 16 minutes ago, Tinman said: Nobody. Aint got any photo ID You aint got a passport/ drivers license? Why didnt you get a postal vote then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 14 minutes ago, Col city fan said: 1. After years of fookin so many things up, the Tories actually do seem to be doing ok at the moment. Eg the economy and hospital appts seem to be an improving picture. 2. I think a lot of people will vote REFORM for precisely the reason that they are being ‘told’ they can’t or shouldn’t. I see it on this thread. People are seemingly becoming sick of being told how to think and react. 1. Eh? How are hospital appointments “improving”? 2. Don’t slam your dick in the door. “F.U. Libtard.” *slam* “Ow!” Pure genius. 1 hour ago, RumbleFox said: they’ve abandoned the working people… they’ve let us all down... What they’ve become is ToryLite. Given the breadth of genuinely exciting changes in the pipeline, and having spent a lifetime being a socialist member of the LP, I find these kinda statements genuinely insulting. Maybe you haven’t been visited, maybe you had a bad canvasser, maybe you haven’t read the manifesto…maybe I should’ve made more of an effort here instead of permanently rinsing the Tories and the Reform retards. Oh well. 1 hour ago, ealingfox said: Given we had a referendum on changing the electoral system in 2011 which was lost, it would be most interesting to see certain groups calling for a change to PR after this election, confirming that actually it is OK to vote on something again within a short period of time. An awful lot of them voted Leave and want us to respect the result of that referendum, so I’m guessing they’re happy we won’t have another for PR. And we won’t be having one for PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 22 minutes ago, Tinman said: Nobody. Aint got any photo ID Too late now, but get a free certificate here https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 7 minutes ago, Col city fan said: This is you telling me though isn’t it mate? Exactly the point I’m making… It could well be that some people vote REFORM because they don’t trust the Tory liars, they don’t want the country to become even more ‘woke’, and cancel culture, they want to control the borders better and agree that the BBC (possibly the most hypocritical organisation in British history) needs dissolving. Theres always two sides to every coin. What I think people are sick of is being ‘told’ what’s right and wrong. They can make their own minds up in exactly the same way you do. I may well abstain actually. I don’t trust any of them. Tbh as much as I wouldn’t want to be associated with any form of racism, neither would I want to be ‘in the trenches’ with you either. Genuinely no offence intended. Yep, people can vote their conscience as they wish, and long should it remain so. That's the essence of a free and fair vote, after all. However, that freedom comes hand in hand with the freedom to be held accountable for the consequences of that vote. And if there is enough of them, this time or next, to set policy, there likely will be consequences, ranging from relatively minor to (hopefully not) utterly catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 10 minutes ago, Col city fan said: This is you telling me though isn’t it mate? Exactly the point I’m making… It could well be that some people vote REFORM because they don’t trust the Tory liars, they don’t want the country to become even more ‘woke’, and cancel culture, they want to control the borders better and agree that the BBC (possibly the most hypocritical organisation in British history) needs dissolving. Theres always two sides to every coin. What I think people are sick of is being ‘told’ what’s right and wrong. They can make their own minds up in exactly the same way you do. I may well abstain actually. I don’t trust any of them. Tbh as much as I wouldn’t want to be associated with any form of racism, neither would I want to be ‘in the trenches’ with you either. Genuinely no offence intended. Terribly sorry for arguing my case. I'm sorry, but this is basically the kids I went to school with who had no respect for authority or rules. They want freedom when it suits them, and only them. I'm not offended by much Col, but I don't think very much of what you just said. It's just apologism for bad actors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July (edited) So depending on how you vote you're either racist or woke? Is that about right? I don't fall into either of these brackets so I'll probably give it a swerve Edited 1 July by foxfanazer 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleFox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 16 minutes ago, Daggers said: 1. Eh? How are hospital appointments “improving”? 2. Don’t slam your dick in the door. “F.U. Libtard.” *slam* “Ow!” Pure genius. Given the breadth of genuinely exciting changes in the pipeline, and having spent a lifetime being a socialist member of the LP, I find these kinda statements genuinely insulting. Maybe you haven’t been visited, maybe you had a bad canvasser, maybe you haven’t read the manifesto…maybe I should’ve made more of an effort here instead of permanently rinsing the Tories and the Reform retards. Oh well. An awful lot of them voted Leave and want us to respect the result of that referendum, so I’m guessing they’re happy we won’t have another for PR. And we won’t be having one for PR. I think, as a member of the party, if people who are desperate to vote Labour are telling you they feel abandoned then your role is probably to listen and look inwards rather than tell them they’re wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 1 hour ago, ealingfox said: It is a relatively short space of time in the context of British political history, but that's not the point, which was that I suspect there aren't many Leave voters who would have accepted a second referendum on Brexit within 15 years. It was to do with the voting style referendum not the EU referendum. 15 years seems an arbitrarily long time for a culture not to change course. We don’t keep the same party in power because well people voted for it 15 years ago when the world looked very different. If polls show public opinion changes on any issue though why wait for 15 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 55 minutes ago, Col city fan said: 2. I think a lot of people will vote REFORM for precisely the reason that they are being ‘told’ they can’t or shouldn’t. I see it on this thread. People are seemingly becoming sick of being told how to think and react. This feels very 2016. If people still want to vote for something because other people who exist mostly in their head are telling them that it's a bad idea, then cool go for it, but we have a pretty strong body of evidence that this isn't always the best strategy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 8 minutes ago, Sampson said: It was to do with the voting style referendum not the EU referendum. 15 years seems an arbitrarily long time for a culture not to change course. We don’t keep the same party in power because well people voted for it 15 years ago when the world looked very different. If polls show public opinion changes on any issue though why wait for 15 years? I don't think you've quite understood me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedX Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 23 hours ago, ithuriel said: Defend the flipflopping idiot all you want Reminded me of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedX Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said: One brave soul has said Reform is one of his choices. Given his religious/moral stance, the mind boggles. Currently 22% of this vote, but bar one other member I can think of that proudly wears his alt-right allegiance like a badge of honour, I suspect that these people are very coy about their voting preference and reluctant to post on this thread. It's a bit like the climate change poll. The usual suspects are vocal whilst the majority remain tacit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 29 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: I think, as a member of the party, if people who are desperate to vote Labour are telling you they feel abandoned then your role is probably to listen and look inwards rather than tell them they’re wrong. It’s not my job to educate on social media for reasons I’ve given multiple times. Someone calls me a Tory, I’m going to retort with a polite FU. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FoxesDeb Posted 1 July Popular Post Share Posted 1 July Can someone please explain to me why some people use the term 'woke' like it's an insult, or something to be avoided? 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Col city fan Posted 1 July Share Posted 1 July 4 minutes ago, SpacedX said: Currently 22% of this vote, but bar one other member I can think of that proudly wears his alt-right allegiance like a badge of honour, I suspect that these people are very coy about their voting preference and reluctant to post on this thread. It's a bit like the climate change poll. The usual suspects are vocal whilst the majority remain tacit. I think you’re right. Which again tells its own story. If people want to vote REFORM they should be able to say they want to vote REFORM. Your observation hits the nail on the head. You can only say certain thinks and think certain ways (in a supposedly democratic society) if it reproduces the status quo. I see it all the time in my own little window on the world. Any dissent is stamped upon and any disagreement treated with sarcasm (very often exactly by those who purport to hate that kinda stuff). Perhaps people are fed up of that? France seems to be? But your point remains. I suspect many voting REFORM won’t come out and openly say so, for fear of retribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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