How will you vote on Thursday?

[Guest Col city fan]

3 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Can someone please explain to me why some people use the term 'woke' like it's an insult, or something to be avoided?

Happy to. My view of ‘woke’ (whether right or wrong) implies that people are genuinely willing to be offended by just about everything ( or anything). When actually, I don’t think ‘individuals’ are always that offended, but society tells us to be so. It’s another media-driven thing by those who believe it’s the correct thing to do. In Marxian terms, it’s the ‘the superstructure’. The driving force behind how a culture is told to behave.
Cancel culture is related. The shutting-down of any dissenting voice because it doesn’t fit with society’s view on how something should be seen and because it makes people feel uneasy. 
You see it a lot on FT in my opinion. 
 

[Samilktray]

[RumbleFox]

14 minutes ago, Daggers said:

It’s not my job to educate on social media for reasons I’ve given multiple times. 
 

Someone calls me a Tory, I’m going to retort with a polite FU. 

Haha. Not sure I called you a Tory? Also a little criticism isn’t a bad thing. Labour have moved closer to the centre, thats just a fact. This for me is why the voting public are so bored with it all. It’s “us and them”. 
 

I have voted Labour in every general election since I was old enough to vote. I will vote for them this time also. But I’m allowed to criticise. Surely you want to engage with people? Especially your own voters? Being so tribal and so judgemental of any other viewpoint is what turns people off. “Labour are more like the Tories than they used to be”. “Fvck off”. That response may get some backslaps from those in your circle but it doesn’t help persuade people to vote for you which surely is the aim? Would you rather insult people that question you and push them further away or meet them with kindness and have them vote for you?

[Guest Col city fan]

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/woke-added-dictionary-really-mean/

[bovril]

24 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Can someone please explain to me why some people use the term 'woke' like it's an insult, or something to be avoided?

Because it's a very American way of looking at the world and should therefore be avoided. 

[Daggers]

6 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

Surely you want to engage with people? Especially your own voters? 

No. I don’t like most people. 
 

They’re not ‘my’ voters, they’re not voting for me.

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I think you’re right. Which again tells its own story. If people want to vote REFORM they should be able to say they want to vote REFORM.

Your observation hits the nail on the head. You can only say certain thinks and think certain ways (in a supposedly democratic society) if it reproduces the status quo. I see it all the time in my own little window on the world. Any dissent is stamped upon and any disagreement treated with sarcasm (very often exactly by those who purport to hate that kinda stuff). 
Perhaps people are fed up of that? France seems to be?

But your point remains. I suspect many voting REFORM won’t come out and openly say so, for fear of retribution.

... again, this is all absolutely agreeable so long as those who are few to come out and say they voted for Reform then likewise are OK with taking responsibility for the policy decisions such a party makes, if elected.

 

People shouldn't be shut down, but then they shouldn't absolve themselves ofthe results of their decisions should they go sideways, either.

[RumbleFox]

Just now, Daggers said:

No. I don’t like most people. 
 

They’re not ‘my’ voters, they’re not voting for me.

Thanks for being honest about your odd viewpoint. Takes all sorts I suppose. 

[HighPeakFox]

27 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I think you’re right. Which again tells its own story. If people want to vote REFORM they should be able to say they want to vote REFORM.

Your observation hits the nail on the head. You can only say certain thinks and think certain ways (in a supposedly democratic society) if it reproduces the status quo. I see it all the time in my own little window on the world. Any dissent is stamped upon and any disagreement treated with sarcasm (very often exactly by those who purport to hate that kinda stuff). 
Perhaps people are fed up of that? France seems to be?

But your point remains. I suspect many voting REFORM won’t come out and openly say so, for fear of retribution.

Absolutely they should. And I think they shouldn't be afraid of their opinions being held up to scrutiny. After all, if they're allowed to say it how it is, so are we all. 

[Zear0]

21 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Happy to. My view of ‘woke’ (whether right or wrong) implies that people are genuinely willing to be offended by just about everything ( or anything). When actually, I don’t think ‘individuals’ are always that offended, but society tells us to be so. It’s another media-driven thing by those who believe it’s the correct thing to do. In Marxian terms, it’s the ‘the superstructure’. The driving force behind how a culture is told to behave.
Cancel culture is related. The shutting-down of any dissenting voice because it doesn’t fit with society’s view on how something should be seen and because it makes people feel uneasy. 
You see it a lot on FT in my opinion. 
 

So you dislike "woke" because you can't speak freely, but you also want the BBC shut down as you don't like their output?

[Guest Col city fan]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

... again, this is all absolutely agreeable so long as those who are few to come out and say they voted for Reform then likewise are OK with taking responsibility for the policy decisions such a party makes, if elected.

 

People shouldn't be shut down, but then they shouldn't absolve themselves ofthe results of their decisions should they go sideways, either.

Spot on mate. And this is one of the main reasons I won’t vote REFORM. I have no idea how they would actually go about change, if elected, and I am suspicious that they will go very right, very quickly.

As I said, it’s likely I’ll abstain this time for exactly reasons like this.

[FoxesDeb]

18 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Happy to. My view of ‘woke’ (whether right or wrong) implies that people are genuinely willing to be offended by just about everything ( or anything). When actually, I don’t think ‘individuals’ are always that offended, but society tells us to be so. It’s another media-driven thing by those who believe it’s the correct thing to do. In Marxian terms, it’s the ‘the superstructure’. The driving force behind how a culture is told to behave.
Cancel culture is related. The shutting-down of any dissenting voice because it doesn’t fit with society’s view on how something should be seen and because it makes people feel uneasy. 
You see it a lot on FT in my opinion. 
 

I don't think what you have described there is anything to do with woke, though, is it?

 

 

 

[FoxesDeb]

24 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Thanks, so nothing like what Col said then, and no reason for it to be an insult

 

 

[Guest Col city fan]

1 minute ago, Zear0 said:

So you dislike "woke" because you can't speak freely, but you also want the BBC shut down as you don't like their output?

I’d be happy to see the Beeb shut down for exactly the reason that you can’t speak your mind. Programmes are tailored, fashioned and reproduced to indoctrinate people to a certain mind-set. 
The BBC epitomises Marx’s ‘superstructure’

[Guest Col city fan]

4 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I don't think what you have described there is anything to do with woke, though, is it?

 

 

 

Read the link I posted above.

Sami’s posted definition has moved on 

Possibly the most important sentence in the article is that how ‘woke’ is defined will depend on the persons’ ideology.

Edited 1 July by Col city fan

[ealingfox]

Arise, Sir Beer Korma

 

 

 

[Lako42]

9 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I am suspicious that they will go very right, very quickly.

 

Wow, what gives you that impression

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, Col city fan said:

Read the link I posted above.

Sami’s posted definition has moved on 

I skim read it, I particulary liked this bit 

 

If 'woke' feels like a loaded term, then other similar terms include 'politically correct', 'right on', 'enlightened', 'culturally sensitive' and 'conscious'. However, if you have any Piers Morgan-esque relatives, other synonyms for 'woke' might include 'snowflake' or 'tofu-eating wokerati'.

 

Otherwise it pretty much says what I thought, and as the post above confirms.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Col city fan]

6 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I skim read it, I particulary liked this bit 

 

If 'woke' feels like a loaded term, then other similar terms include 'politically correct', 'right on', 'enlightened', 'culturally sensitive' and 'conscious'. However, if you have any Piers Morgan-esque relatives, other synonyms for 'woke' might include 'snowflake' or 'tofu-eating wokerati'.

 

Otherwise it pretty much says what I thought, and as the post above confirms.

 

 

 

 

Of course you do. Because that’s your world-view isn’t it?

White is black and black is white if you want it to be. 
What you’ve done is to basically state that you disagree with the negative connotations of the term, but couched it in asking what it means.
Just state you don’t agree.. would have been quicker!

😂

Edited 1 July by Col city fan

[bovril]

17 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

Arise, Sir Beer Korma

 

 

 

I'm sure @uptheleaguefox is thrilled at the progress Kieth has made in the last 2 years

[FoxesDeb]

4 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Of course you do. Because that’s your world-view isn’t it?

White is black and black is white if you want it to be. 

It's taken from an article you posted to back up your claims of what 'woke' means?!

 

More from your article:

 

Woke definition: what does woke mean?
In its modern-day, politicised context, ‘woke’ is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as ‘originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice’. The Urban Dictionary, meanwhile, explains that ‘being woke means being aware… knowing what’s going on in the community (related to racism and social injustice)’.

Today, 'woke' is now best known as a negative political buzzword used to describe anything deemed too liberal or progressive. Again, in simple terms, woke means you are 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination'. In today's world, it embodies a broader awareness of social inequalities.

 

This is also taken from your article:

 

The Guardian refer to anti-woke as an ideology in itself i.e. ' an attempt for the right to rebrand bigotry as a resistance movement'.

 

My question was how it can be seen as a negative trait to be 'well-informed, up-to-date, alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice and so on.

 

I guess if people aren't those things they would see them as negatives, but I don't see any of them as insults.

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

It's taken from an article you posted to back up your claims of what 'woke' means?!

 

More from your article:

 

Woke definition: what does woke mean?
In its modern-day, politicised context, ‘woke’ is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as ‘originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice’. The Urban Dictionary, meanwhile, explains that ‘being woke means being aware… knowing what’s going on in the community (related to racism and social injustice)’.

Today, 'woke' is now best known as a negative political buzzword used to describe anything deemed too liberal or progressive. Again, in simple terms, woke means you are 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination'. In today's world, it embodies a broader awareness of social inequalities.

 

This is also taken from your article:

 

The Guardian refer to anti-woke as an ideology in itself i.e. ' an attempt for the right to rebrand bigotry as a resistance movement'.

 

My question was how it can be seen as a negative trait to be 'well-informed, up-to-date, alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice and so on.

 

I guess if people aren't those things they would see them as negatives, but I don't see any of them as insults.

wokeness for me refers to hyper-sensitivity to language, acts and beliefs that can be seen as 'problematic' (literally anything). It's pretty exhausting imo and since (correct me if I'm wrong) you live in Spain I'm sure you've noticed that that policing of language and views doesn't exist as much there, which for me is quite liberating when I'm abroad. 

[Guest Col city fan]

8 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

It's taken from an article you posted to back up your claims of what 'woke' means?!

 

More from your article:

 

Woke definition: what does woke mean?
In its modern-day, politicised context, ‘woke’ is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as ‘originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice’. The Urban Dictionary, meanwhile, explains that ‘being woke means being aware… knowing what’s going on in the community (related to racism and social injustice)’.

Today, 'woke' is now best known as a negative political buzzword used to describe anything deemed too liberal or progressive. Again, in simple terms, woke means you are 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination'. In today's world, it embodies a broader awareness of social inequalities.

 

This is also taken from your article:

 

The Guardian refer to anti-woke as an ideology in itself i.e. ' an attempt for the right to rebrand bigotry as a resistance movement'.

 

My question was how it can be seen as a negative trait to be 'well-informed, up-to-date, alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice and so on.

 

I guess if people aren't those things they would see them as negatives, but I don't see any of them as insults.

I posted the link as one of amongst many many links on the subject. It wasn’t to ‘back-up’ my definition of woke. And if you read up, you’ll see I wrote that’s how I see it (rightly or wrongly). I posted the link because a. You asked the question and b. Sami posted a single definition, pretty much the original, which has moved on.

Like most things, woke is good and bad. Awareness is good. Taking it too far to indoctrinate is bad. I love awareness and gaining knowledge. But I detest being ‘told’ that something is wrong to say, purely because the state (in all its forms) says it is.

Im not sure what you saying (or asking) tbh?

In political terms, one of my concerns about Labour being elected is because ‘woke’ in all its forms, will expand, I think. I’ll be told even more what is ‘right and wrong’ and will be vilified if I question this.

One of the things that REFORM purports (whether you believe Farage or not) is to try to stop some of this. Ie being ‘told’ what to say and think.

 

 

Edited 1 July by Col city fan

[CosbehFox]

56 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Happy to. My view of ‘woke’ (whether right or wrong) implies that people are genuinely willing to be offended by just about everything ( or anything). When actually, I don’t think ‘individuals’ are always that offended, but society tells us to be so. It’s another media-driven thing by those who believe it’s the correct thing to do. In Marxian terms, it’s the ‘the superstructure’. The driving force behind how a culture is told to behave.
Cancel culture is related. The shutting-down of any dissenting voice because it doesn’t fit with society’s view on how something should be seen and because it makes people feel uneasy. 
You see it a lot on FT in my opinion. 
 

Makes you think Col Le Tiss

[SpacedX]