England v Switzerland - Saturday 6 July

[whoareyaaa]

17 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Southgate's strength lies in building a tight knit squad where the players get on, but I think that's simply way too limited to win a tournament. His way works better without expectation. Tactically it's been an absolute car crash, he doesn't carry the strength to make tougher decisions on who should and shouldn't be playing. It's quite clear to me at this point you can't play all of Saka, Foden, Bellingham and Kane - but he's fallen into the shoehorning pitfall that England managers of old have done.

 

There's been little momentum here. It's a complete fluke he's in the semi final with this performance. I've never known luck like it and he's had enough in previous tournaments. 5 points in a weak group yet somehow ends up winning it because all three other games are draws landing us on the kind half of the draw, made even kinder by France blowing it against an already eliminated Poland. Somehow even dodges Holland in the round of 16 due to Georgia beating Portugal and ends up with Slovakia - who are seconds from knocking us out but for a genuinely iconic goal. Moment of magic saves him against Switzerland. I think most tournament winners have ups and downs, they survive their bad days and deliver on their good. England haven't turned in a performance better than 5/10 for me. Teams this bad don't win tournaments. We've got to drastically improve just to beat Holland, let alone France or Spain.

That's what I thought but then he has played pretty much the same players in the starting eleven and only using subs when going a goal down so I can't even give him that.

 

Shit manager, no idea how he got the job.

[ClaphamFox]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

This is what annoys me when people say these lot are better than the "golden generation". I hate that term btw but they came up against stronger opposition. In 2002 we were knocked out by Brazil (a team that included Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu etc).

Oh give over. Sven’s ‘golden generation’ couldn’t get past a quarter final in three tournaments. They then contrived to fail to qualify for Euro 2008 and stunk the place out in South Africa in 2010. The current lot have got to three semi-finals in four tournaments and have a good chance of reaching a second consecutive Euro final. By any sane rationale, our current team is objectively better than the one of the 2000s. 

[Dan LCFC]

11 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

Prior to playing us, Switzerland had been 1-0 up against Germany until injury time and had played Italy off the park. They’re a very good side. Although England weren’t very exciting to watch, I thought we were significantly better than in previous games. We looked a lot more comfortable with the new shape, which was a major positive.

 

And as for your assertion that teams that are very underwhelming in the early rounds never go on to win those tournaments, I suggest you brush up on your tournament history. It happens all the time. 

I would call France this time around underwhelming. I'd call England frankly awful. If England retained this level of performance and won the tournament I'd say it's the worst side I've ever seen win a Euros or a World Cup.

Edited 8 July by Dan LCFC

[filbertway]

23 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I would call France this time around underwhelming. I'd call England frankly awful. If England retained this level of performance and won the tournament I'd say it's the worst side I've ever seen win a Euros or a World Cup.

 

Aside from Serbia and Scotland no team has created less per 90 than us. Absolutely grim.

[Dan LCFC]

45 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

Aside from Serbia and Scotland no team has created less per 90 than us. Absolutely grim.

I heard a stat earlier that England have created less this tournament than Georgia and Poland. That's despite Georgia playing 4 games, Poland playing 3, and England playing 5 with two extra times, so actually 5.67 games, nearly double what Poland have played, against weaker opposition than Poland - who are consistently bad in tournaments themselves.

 

People are mistaking what we've been so far for pragmatism. I'd call what Southgate offered in 2018 and 2020 pragmatism. This tournament we've been frankly dire. I don't see what I said in that "England need to substantially improve to win this" was wrong at all.

 

As it happens I fancy France to win the tournament - despite the fact I think Spain have been far better than them so far.

[Fox92]

On 08/07/2024 at 17:06, ClaphamFox said:

Oh give over. Sven’s ‘golden generation’ couldn’t get past a quarter final in three tournaments. They then contrived to fail to qualify for Euro 2008 and stunk the place out in South Africa in 2010. The current lot have got to three semi-finals in four tournaments and have a good chance of reaching a second consecutive Euro final. By any sane rationale, our current team is objectively better than the one of the 2000s. 

Yeah the quarter final defeats to Portugal were frustrating, I would say our side then was better than them (albeit Figo, Rui Costa and then Ronaldo all walk into our side) but this set of players haven't beaten a side as good as the sides we were playing then. I don't underestimate getting to semi finals and finals but the difference in opposition is big for me. The Italian team we lost to was the worse Italian side in how many years? 

 

I wasn't talking about 2008 and 2010 as I don't count them years as the "golden generation", even though some players were still in the team then. I was referring to 2002, 2004 and 2006.