EURO 2024 FINAL THREAD: SPAIN vs ENGLAND Sunday, July 14th, 8:00PM

[bovril]

17 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Scotland did beat Spain though... in qualifying...just sayin.

That officially makes them European champions to go with their world cup win of 1967

[purpleronnie]

7 minutes ago, bovril said:

That officially makes them European champions to go with their world cup win of 1967

I'll be surprised if that was the headline in 'the Scotsman'.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Tielemans63 said:

I was a bit nervous before the game when Southgate said we'd need to play 'over or around their press'. That sounded suspiciously like long ball tactics to me, and you're absolutely right, there were so many overhit passes.

 

I think it says a lot that he made the right gamble by taking off Mainoo and bringing on a more advanced midfielder in Palmer and it got us the equaliser. But then they flooded the space Mainoo had vacated by bringing on another midfielder....and he just left it. Declan Rice left with constant 2 v 1s. Spain brought on Oyarzabal, regained the initiative and he didn't react.

There was one passage of play that wound me up so much, we had a throwin in their final third, rather than moving for the ball, looking for space, and then backing up that player.... we threw it all the way back to a player in our own half, who then passed it back to pickford, he then just punted it the length of the pitch to their keeper or out for a goal kick. 

 

What was the point? Could you imagine Spain not trying to take advantage of a high pitch position. They might go back a little, but they aren't going from edge of penalty box to keeper. 

[Foxdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

There was one passage of play that wound me up so much, we had a throwin in their final third, rather than moving for the ball, looking for space, and then backing up that player.... we threw it all the way back to a player in our own half, who then passed it back to pickford, he then just punted it the length of the pitch to their keeper or out for a goal kick. 

 

What was the point? Could you imagine Spain not trying to take advantage of a high pitch position. They might go back a little, but they aren't going from edge of penalty box to keeper. 

There were a number of times when we had a throw in and there was no movement by our players and possession lost. 

[bovril]

9 hours ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

This is a very simplified approach/logic. Spurs had at times the quality to win a trophy. They didn't because this guy was nowhere to be found in all games that mattered most. It happened also with Bayern, it's happening all the time with England. It's not a coincidence. 

I don't think you can say my logic is simplistic but then also say Spurs didn't win a trophy because Kane didn't turn up in big games. 

[st albans fox]

Our formation simply screwed us over last night 

we shoehorned in two no 10’s as per last couple games but with a tactically excellent high press up against us, we were a man short in deep midfield where we needed options to create angles to play out or just another body to compete for the breaking ball.  This has become obvious to me in hindsight but the England coaching team need to deal with it in real time - as per 2021 they failed again 

[RowlattsFox]

TAA has his issues but Southgate not being able to utilise him is one of his biggest errors. Even when Walker went down it was Trippier who was warming up. 

 

Need to find a way of controlling the midfield without being defensive. Southgate as always been concerned about this, which understand, but he hasn't been able to successfully do it against anyone good. I like Rice, but he's too chaotic and got progressively worse as the pressure of the games heightened. If Harry Winks can have a good season, then who knows, maybe there is a place for him at international level again. 

 

Any new manager is going to have a tricky balancing act with Foden, Palmer, Bellingham, Saka and others in them attacking midfield positions. 

 

There is some top talent knocking around the squad, but it's going to need a good manager to get the best out of them. 

[Bert]

4 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

TAA has his issues but Southgate not being able to utilise him is one of his biggest errors. Even when Walker went down it was Trippier who was warming up. 

 

Need to find a way of controlling the midfield without being defensive. Southgate as always been concerned about this, which understand, but he hasn't been able to successfully do it against anyone good. I like Rice, but he's too chaotic and got progressively worse as the pressure of the games heightened. If Harry Winks can have a good season, then who knows, maybe there is a place for him at international level again. 

 

Any new manager is going to have a tricky balancing act with Foden, Palmer, Bellingham, Saka and others in them attacking midfield positions. 

 

There is some top talent knocking around the squad, but it's going to need a good manager to get the best out of them. 

And the last sentence I think is the problem. 
 

You look at the managers these lads have at club level, the managers/coaches these have are all elite who have done it domestically with different clubs over a sustained period of time. 
 

The players might love Southgate for his man management but what he offers after that is something you’d find at a lower prem level. 

[Aus Fox]

2 hours ago, ARTY_FOX said:

You could grab a random person off the street and got England to the finals he did. 

Yet no one before him has done it in almost 60 years! 

[tinpot_fox]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

It depends what levels you mean. Having him take up a starting spot has been a hindrance for the whole tournament and almost anybody else would've been a better alternative.

 

Southgate coming out after the final saying they struggled to get Kane up to speed is criminal 

 

He'll still be fine to stat pad in the qualifiers but surely he can't be considered our first choice striker for the next world cup

He was saying players weren’t up to speed in the group stages too. 

[StanSP]

 

 

[sm1]

5 minutes ago, tinpot_fox said:

He was saying players weren’t up to speed in the group stages too. 

Well he should've freshened the team up then. Kane's been a passenger for 99% of the tournament, yet Watkins and Toney have barely had a look in. Shaw hadn't played a game since Feb and was injured, yet was our only LB. Guys like Palmer and Gordon have hardly played. Southgate picked the team and the squad, the buck stops with him. I know its fantasy, but some people mentioned Klopp. If he took the England job we're winning major tournaments.

[ARTY_FOX]

39 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Yet no one before him has done it in almost 60 years! 

Nobody has had such an easy run or a squad this talented 

[Koke]

The players are fine and most are pretty likeable. Southgate is the problem.

[Aus Fox]

22 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Nobody has had such an easy run or a squad this talented 

This squad is nowhere near as talented as the squads from 1996 - 2010.

Look at the 2006 World Cup for example, how many of this squad get into the starting 11?

Pickford maybe? And look how that turned out? Scraped past Trinidad and Tobago and Ecuador before going out with a whimper.

No one is saying Southgate is a great manager, and I think it’s time for him to pass over the reigns, but it’s wrong to say this is the most talented squad we’ve had or the easiest run we’ve had.

Let’s face it, England beating top teams in major tournaments just doesn’t happen and never has under any manager. So to say anyone could have taken this team to back to back finals and a World Cup semi is just wrong - they couldn’t and they haven’t.

 

[RumbleFox]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

That officially makes them European champions to go with their world cup win of 1967

When I first moved to Scotland I went to a newsagent on Leith Walk and there was a DVD of that win on the counter. 😂 Which is fine. And I’m a very reasonable England fan and a complete Scotlandphile. I love it up here and I understand a lot of the anti England football stuff. But that made me laugh because the biggest thing they “claim” annoys them is that we always go on about 1966 but fvck me. I’d take that more seriously if they didn’t release DVDs for a glorified friendly win. 

Edited 15 July by RumbleFox

[RumbleFox]

1 hour ago, RowlattsFox said:

TAA has his issues but Southgate not being able to utilise him is one of his biggest errors. Even when Walker went down it was Trippier who was warming up. 

 

Need to find a way of controlling the midfield without being defensive. Southgate as always been concerned about this, which understand, but he hasn't been able to successfully do it against anyone good. I like Rice, but he's too chaotic and got progressively worse as the pressure of the games heightened. If Harry Winks can have a good season, then who knows, maybe there is a place for him at international level again. 

 

Any new manager is going to have a tricky balancing act with Foden, Palmer, Bellingham, Saka and others in them attacking midfield positions. 

 

There is some top talent knocking around the squad, but it's going to need a good manager to get the best out of them. 

I fully agree re. Trent. It’s a fair argument to make that he’s the best attacking fullback in the world when on form and he can’t get in the team? It’s criminal. 

[Foxdiamond]

3 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

When I first moved to Scotland I went to a newsagent on Leith Walk and there was a DVD of that win on the counter. 😂 Which is fine. And I’m a very reasonable England fan and a complete Scotlandphile. I love it up here and I understand a lot of the anti England football stuff. But that made me laugh because the biggest things they “claim” annoys them is that we always go on about 1966 but fvck me. I’d take that more seriously if they didn’t release DVDs for a glorified friendly win. 

I bet they don't mention the serious injuries England suffered in that match. For example Jack Charlton broke a toe etc

[ARTY_FOX]

39 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

This squad is nowhere near as talented as the squads from 1996 - 2010.

Look at the 2006 World Cup for example, how many of this squad get into the starting 11?

Pickford maybe? And look how that turned out? Scraped past Trinidad and Tobago and Ecuador before going out with a whimper.

No one is saying Southgate is a great manager, and I think it’s time for him to pass over the reigns, but it’s wrong to say this is the most talented squad we’ve had or the easiest run we’ve had.

Let’s face it, England beating top teams in major tournaments just doesn’t happen and never has under any manager. So to say anyone could have taken this team to back to back finals and a World Cup semi is just wrong - they couldn’t and they haven’t.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

[TheStig]

3 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

All our rivals taking pops at us but at least we reached a final and tend to always qualify.

 

Scotland were knocked out after just 15 minutes. Wales were one man team anyway apart from that decent period they gone back to being crap.

 

Rep of Ireland havent had a sniff of a major tournament since 2016. 

 

 

I would have thought that England compared themselves to better teams than NI, Scotland and Wales ?

[Chris_OGrady]

28 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

the "golden generation" only really had a top squad/team in 2004 and 2006. In the 2002 world cup vs Brazil we had Danny Mills, Trevor Sinclair, Nicky Butt and Heskey all starting...

 

In 2010 we had Upson starting at centre back...

[KFS]

1 minute ago, TheStig said:

I would have thought that England compared themselves to better teams than NI, Scotland and Wales ?

We do - we just can’t shake the kids in wheelchairs taking the piss out of the runner who came second 

[FrankieADZ]

what gets me is the amount of scousers wanting spain to win, 

cant we brick liverpool off and cut them off from the uk

 

also it felt like more liverpool fans compared to everton

Edited 15 July by FrankieADZ

[bovril]

6 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

what gets me is the amount of scousers wanting spain to win, 

cant we brick liverpool off and cut them off from the uk

It's a relatively recent phenomenon and it's related to their attempts to brand themselves as a kind of English Barcelona - left-leaning and with their own strong regional identity. I do think at the same time there has been a rise in regional identity in England, perhaps because of increasing inequality between areas but also because of the constant problematising of English national identity in the press, and the snobbishness that surrounds that. 

[phoneticerror]

10 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

what gets me is the amount of scousers wanting spain to win, 

cant we brick liverpool off and cut them off from the uk

 

also it felt like more liverpool fans compared to everton

Mate, I’d ****ing love to give those c^nts independence and watch the place rot from a distance.