EURO 2024 FINAL THREAD: SPAIN vs ENGLAND Sunday, July 14th, 8:00PM

[Leicesterpool]

Reading the press Potter is firm favourite for the England job. That the best we can do?

 

Hes okay manager, but can you honestly tell me Potter is type of manager that can win England the world cup.

 

Eddie Howe better choice at least hes achieved things. But im not sure hes manager can England to greatestness.

[Super_horns]

I  think Howe might be better than Potter but not saying much .

We’d be good at winning penalties and the dark arts though .

[Guest Col city fan]

9 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Reallly?  They are a much better team than England.

 

This 'its all the managers fault' will never end will it?.

 

How many had heard of the spanish manager before the tournament?

Nah I just don’t agree.

I wouldn’t swap Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Stones, Walker, Pickford, Palmer for their equivalent players.

Rodri is their only truly world class player at the moment. Williams is up and coming with great potential, same with Yamal. 
Morata is a journeyman striker who has never really excelled anywhere he’s played (I wouldn’t have swapped Kane for Morata pre tournament) and Fabian (who was excellent throughout the tournament), rarely makes the PSG first team.

You are making the usual error of excusing our squad for not being as good as people make out. 
How they’ve been asked to play has been the problem. I concur, as a ‘team’ they’ve been round pegs in square holes and that’s down to the manager.

[Leicesterpool]

Pochettino would be perfect candidate, seems to do well with English players.

[Guest Col city fan]

56 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

You have to be in the penalty area to score inside the penalty area.

 

The amount of times Kane was absent when crossing opportunities came was a telling sign.

But the biggest sign that Kane wasn’t fit - I don’t recall seeing him make a high intensity sprint throughout the tournament.

Again, he doesn’t do that with Bayern Munich does he? Because he doesn’t have to, he doesn’t feel compelled to in terms of how Bayern play. 
I agree that he didn’t look fit. But the supply to Kane was criminal really and when it did come, due to our tactical set-up, he was standing somewhere in the centre circle.

The reality is we were pretty crap all tournament and Kane suffered for this big time imo.

This isn’t defending him btw. He was as poor as any of em. But he would have looked better in a team playing quicker attacking football.

[CWC1983]

4 hours ago, Lionator said:

Seems like Bellingham is the fall guy. Sources from within the squad and pundits seem to be going hard on him and his supposed ego.

It was obvious to anyone that watched Madrid in May that he was done physically. 

 

He should have been given less minutes in the group stages but the draw with Denmark meant Southgate was too scared to rest him for the 3rd game.

Then going behind in every game after that meant he had to stay on in the hope of a moment of brilliance from him. 

 

It was the same with John McGinn, it was clear he was absolutely knackered in the warm up games and he struggled on in vain for the 3 games in the tournament, albeit he was subbed a few times. 

 

 

 

 

[RowlattsFox]

1 hour ago, Dr Marco said:

Kane should have been dropped, Bellingham should have played deeper along Rice, and Palmer should have started instead of Mainoo

 

Like the last 10 minutes when our midfield was non-existent, and Rice was completely overrun?  

 

I understand the calls but there is no evidence Bellingham can play in a deeper role, I've never seen it anyway. 

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I don’t think Spain were actually a great team. But you’re right, they set out to play exactly to their strengths (high press, getting forward quickly, using width) and absolutely stuck to it.

They played with adventure and took risks, thinking they could out score their opponents.

Hats off to them. The complete antithesis to how Southgate set up England 

Part of the reason why they looked so good is that all the other teams didn’t look particularly good. I think probably the next best team were Germany but for German standards, that’s a poor team. In terms of overall quality of the top teams, I think it was a very weak tournament but I thought the non elite teams actually looked quite good (Türkiye, Austria, Romania, Slovenia etc) albeit not enough quality to go far. 

[Dr Marco]

46 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Like the last 10 minutes when our midfield was non-existent, and Rice was completely overrun?  

 

I understand the calls but there is no evidence Bellingham can play in a deeper role, I've never seen it anyway. 

he gave Watkins a good pass when he was deeper but Watkins missed his touch

he played a few games with Madrid where he was a bit deeper and he was good imho

[Tielemans63]

10 hours ago, Babylon said:

There was one passage of play that wound me up so much, we had a throwin in their final third, rather than moving for the ball, looking for space, and then backing up that player.... we threw it all the way back to a player in our own half, who then passed it back to pickford, he then just punted it the length of the pitch to their keeper or out for a goal kick. 

 

What was the point? Could you imagine Spain not trying to take advantage of a high pitch position. They might go back a little, but they aren't going from edge of penalty box to keeper. 

Was it you who wrote this, Babs?!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/15/turning-point-england-kyle-walker-throw-in-euro-2024-final-spain?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

 

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, Tielemans63 said:

Was it you who wrote this, Babs?!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/15/turning-point-england-kyle-walker-throw-in-euro-2024-final-spain?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

 

Ha ha ha unreal, I’d not seen that or the replay of it. God it’s worse than I even remembered it to be. 

[Foxdiamond]

14 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Ha ha ha unreal, I’d not seen that or the replay of it. God it’s worse than I even remembered it to be. 

Criminal waste 

[Dr Marco]

I have little doubt Walker (vice captain) and Kane (captain) won't retire

with Southgate in charge it's gonna be the same shite in two years

[RoboFox]

The Athletic - Shock, fear, euphoria and heartbreak: The story of England's Euro 2024

 

Summary: 

- Defeat had been coming, England had stumbled their way through the tournament

 

- Kane and Southgate went for a walk together just before final friendly match before tournament, Kane expressed his concern that Maguire had been left out after already leaving out Henderson, Rashford and Grealish. Maguire was set to be fit for the 3rd group game, but Southgate decided to leave him out anyway as he felt he couldn’t risk it, Maguire was shocked. Kane wanted to understand reasoning and discuss with Southgate, to help relay it to the team. 

 

- Grealish was ‘stunned’ that he was left out as he’d made positive impact off the bench against Bosnia, some players visited Grealish in his bedroom to express their shock at his exclusion; they felt he had the big game experience needed. He wished the team good luck but was not in the mood to exchange pleasantries with Southgate. This made for an unhappy camp on squad call up evening.

 

- Frequent suggestions that Kane was experiencing a back injury, Kane insisted he was fit. There was concerns about his ability to press.

 

- Players felt they were under attack from former England players, particularly Gary Lineker. Inside the camp, it was thought that maybe Southgate had faltered by not bringing Henderson, Maguire etc for their experience and personality as it may have helped calm the group. 

 

- One player told Southgate’s staff that he’d never seen criticism like the criticism England got after the Denmark draw. 

 

- Unrest due to player marriages; drama surrounding Walker’s former mistress attending a game and another players marriage under speculation

 

- Southgate showed players footage of them after Denmark game where he questioned their body language: “They (Denmark) are on two points, we’re on four. They’re celebrating with their fans, we’re on our knees.” Felt it showed unusual environment.

 

- Southgate took Trent (cast aside after two games in midfield) and Gallagher (really disappointed to have been subbed at half time against Slovenia) aside to reassure them and insist on their importance. They reacted well.

 

- Player most aware of criticism against them: Jude Bellingham. According to those close to team environment, he was ‘aware of every word said or written about him in the media’

 

- Bellingham’s demeanour was subject of conversation too. Some in camp didn’t like his ‘Hey Jude’ advert, where he was painted at England’s saviour, felt it didn’t align with Southgate’s ethos, which is about the importance of the whole group and collective. Other than Trent, Bellingham doesn’t have close connections with many of the squad, unlike most other players

 

- Bellingham promoted to leadership group just before tournament alongside Kane, Walker and Rice. But he did not attend daily outside media duties; sometimes this left other young inexperienced players on the fringes of the squad such as Palmer, Gordon etc to answer difficult questions. 

 

- Wayne Rooney noticed this; he wrote in his newspaper column about Bellingham that he felt he needed to step up and take responsibility to speak out. 

 

- Felt like a weight lifted after Bellingham’s bicycle kick against Slovakia, knew they got away with poor performance but it lifted spirits, allowed for better team bonding

 

- Southgate and Holland livid at the media for leaking change to three man central defence; journalists had conference call with the FA who expressed anger on Southgate’s behalf

 

-  Game changing moments against Switzerland and Netherlands, but ultimately, England were riding their luck for most of the tournament and it was unsurprising when they met a much more coherent team in Spain, that they couldn’t prevail.

 

 

[Guest Col city fan]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/SrjaPZgWjSjzLwej/?mibextid=UalRPS

[Phenom]

6 hours ago, RoboFox said:

The Athletic - Shock, fear, euphoria and heartbreak: The story of England's Euro 2024

 

Summary: 

- Defeat had been coming, England had stumbled their way through the tournament

 

- Kane and Southgate went for a walk together just before final friendly match before tournament, Kane expressed his concern that Maguire had been left out after already leaving out Henderson, Rashford and Grealish. Maguire was set to be fit for the 3rd group game, but Southgate decided to leave him out anyway as he felt he couldn’t risk it, Maguire was shocked. Kane wanted to understand reasoning and discuss with Southgate, to help relay it to the team. 

 

- Grealish was ‘stunned’ that he was left out as he’d made positive impact off the bench against Bosnia, some players visited Grealish in his bedroom to express their shock at his exclusion; they felt he had the big game experience needed. He wished the team good luck but was not in the mood to exchange pleasantries with Southgate. This made for an unhappy camp on squad call up evening.

 

- Frequent suggestions that Kane was experiencing a back injury, Kane insisted he was fit. There was concerns about his ability to press.

 

- Players felt they were under attack from former England players, particularly Gary Lineker. Inside the camp, it was thought that maybe Southgate had faltered by not bringing Henderson, Maguire etc for their experience and personality as it may have helped calm the group. 

 

- One player told Southgate’s staff that he’d never seen criticism like the criticism England got after the Denmark draw. 

 

- Unrest due to player marriages; drama surrounding Walker’s former mistress attending a game and another players marriage under speculation

 

- Southgate showed players footage of them after Denmark game where he questioned their body language: “They (Denmark) are on two points, we’re on four. They’re celebrating with their fans, we’re on our knees.” Felt it showed unusual environment.

 

- Southgate took Trent (cast aside after two games in midfield) and Gallagher (really disappointed to have been subbed at half time against Slovenia) aside to reassure them and insist on their importance. They reacted well.

 

- Player most aware of criticism against them: Jude Bellingham. According to those close to team environment, he was ‘aware of every word said or written about him in the media’

 

- Bellingham’s demeanour was subject of conversation too. Some in camp didn’t like his ‘Hey Jude’ advert, where he was painted at England’s saviour, felt it didn’t align with Southgate’s ethos, which is about the importance of the whole group and collective. Other than Trent, Bellingham doesn’t have close connections with many of the squad, unlike most other players

 

- Bellingham promoted to leadership group just before tournament alongside Kane, Walker and Rice. But he did not attend daily outside media duties; sometimes this left other young inexperienced players on the fringes of the squad such as Palmer, Gordon etc to answer difficult questions. 

 

- Wayne Rooney noticed this; he wrote in his newspaper column about Bellingham that he felt he needed to step up and take responsibility to speak out. 

 

- Felt like a weight lifted after Bellingham’s bicycle kick against Slovakia, knew they got away with poor performance but it lifted spirits, allowed for better team bonding

 

- Southgate and Holland livid at the media for leaking change to three man central defence; journalists had conference call with the FA who expressed anger on Southgate’s behalf

 

-  Game changing moments against Switzerland and Netherlands, but ultimately, England were riding their luck for most of the tournament and it was unsurprising when they met a much more coherent team in Spain, that they couldn’t prevail.

 

 

Those players left out would not have changed a thing. 

[Vacamion]

10 hours ago, RoboFox said:

Henderson, Rashford and Grealish. Maguire

 

If he's picking on form, or level they are playing at, or condition, these guys were correctly excluded.

 

 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Players turning out for Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal need their hand holding by a semi-retired Jordan Henderson?

 

Not devaluing the merit of experience, but that is an easy cop out.

[Finnegan]

22 hours ago, RumbleFox said:

he’s the best attacking fullback in the world when on form and he can’t get in the team?

 

Not even the best in the Prem mate.

 

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Players turning out for Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal need their hand holding by a semi-retired Jordan Henderson?

 

Not devaluing the merit of experience, but that is an easy cop out.

 

It just isn't rocket science. You don't need all the soul searching, head scratching and navel staring. All the various excuses and scapegoating aren't necessary, it's not like you're in a terrible disastrous position. Just get a competent coach that understands modern tactics. That's it. This one simple trick and you'll be amongst the favourites, legitimately, for the World Cup.

 

The sport has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Actually, even in just the 15 years since Southgate finished his actual managerial career.

 

The sport we grew up with was one in which individual brilliance, flair and skill really could win games, in which Brazil were dominant and the likes of Ronaldinho were great entertainers. Like it or not, the game now is all about systems, patterns of play and pre-rehearsed routines. People can bemoan that and wish for the olden days and I'm right there with them but when even Georgia, Slovenia, Austria et all can turn up at a major tournament and make nuisances of themselves by just being disciplined and organised at the back then you're going to need more than just individual ability to break that down.

[Ricey]

I still can't believe that after equalising we didn't carry on in the same vein as the minutes leading up to the goal. I know Spain pinned us back, but all of the pressing and progressive passing just instantly stopped. Tiredness was a factor, in particular for Bellingham and Rice who were far too deep, but I still think it's born out of Southgate's overall cautiousness.

 

I don't think Southgate is telling the players to drop deep or Pickford to lump it long, but also think he's not not telling them to do it. A more tactically astute manager would be coming down hard on those things and the players would feel less comfortable slipping into it.

[RumbleFox]

27 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Not even the best in the Prem mate.

 

Nicely edited.