Cold Hard Truth

[MattFox]

 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Just now, Izzy said:

82 was also weird because Brazil never won it and that was possibly the best team I've ever seen.

Best team ever going forward definitely. Couldn't defend for shit though as evidenced by Rossi scoring the easiest hat-trick of his career.

[Mike Oxlong]

Southgate choked the life out of football as an entertaining spectacle for much of his tenure 

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Best team ever going forward definitely. Couldn't defend for shit though as evidenced by Rossi scoring the easiest hat-trick of his career.

Should have had Southgate managing them

[Foxmeister]

3 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Best team ever going forward definitely. Couldn't defend for shit though as evidenced by Rossi scoring the easiest hat-trick of his career.

The goalkeeper in that Brazil side made Ward look like Dino Zoff.

[FrankieADZ]

1 minute ago, MattFox said:

 

says it all really that, the FA dont want someone whos going to rock the boat, why southgate got the job in the first place

its like the issue when England had lampard, gerrard and Scholes, trying to fit them all in even if its not going to work

shown it this tournament with Foden, Kane, Trippier

 

just cos they are good players dont mean its the right fit, we need a team who work well together no a team of square pegs in round holes

 

[Paninistickers]

16 minutes ago, Izzy said:

82 was also weird because Brazil never won it and that was possibly the best team I've ever seen.

82 was the first tournament I managed to follow. 

 

It was a high water mark..an extraordinary tournament.

 

Argentina (Inc Maradona) v Brazil near war in that second group round. West Germany France semi. Northern Ireland beating Spain. 

 

2 or 3 thousand hard core hooligans following England. 

 

A banned Paolo Rossi making his comeback. The 'evil' communist Soviet Union..Poland protesting against communism with a solidarity flag. The West Germany v Austria scandal. Kuwait walking out of a game. Honduras losing 10-1

 

The best ever. 

 

Edited to add, all played only 30 days after the Falklands war for us, the jocks,.northern Ireland and the argies.

Edited 14 July by Paninistickers

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 minute ago, Foxmeister said:

The goalkeeper in that Brazil side made Ward look like Dino Zoff.

Waldir. The bald bloke. Yep, he was awful.

[grobyfox1990]

48 minutes ago, Matt said:

It was an awful tournament barr the first week, Spain and I think special credits to Georgia, Albania and Turkey.

 

But, that's where modern football is at.

 

You can’t have watched Spain v france semi final and thought that was awful. 
Ps see below clip of when ‘football was real’ - you cannot possibly have enjoyed this crap, the ball doesn’t tough the floor. Without rose tinted and heavily skewed glasses on, the standard of football and ability is miles better now.

 

 

[PhillippaT]

54 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Lineker, Ferdinand, Richards all right on BBC in that Southgate has always been far too defensive. He always changes once we’re 1 down. He has to go, Southgate. 

Not just defensive, but reactive, rather than proactive.  When it seems our best lineup is only on the pitch for 30mins at the end, rather than starting, then...

[foxfanazer]

Just now, PhillippaT said:

Not just defensive, but reactive, rather than proactive.  When it seems our best lineup is only on the pitch for 30mins at the end, rather than starting, then...

Spot on Phillipa. It's as clear as day

[Dan LCFC]

We were crap all tournament and it would've been a travesty if we'd gone all the way. It's time to look elsewhere, but I bet we don't.

[MattFox]

59 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Lineker, Ferdinand, Richards all right on BBC in that Southgate has always been far too defensive. He always changes once we’re 1 down. He has to go, Southgate. 

Same trio that have spent the past 8 years ignoring and defending any criticism of st Gareth

Edited 14 July by MattFox

[bovril]

35 minutes ago, EastAnglianFox said:

Bit Bizarre here tbf, I’ve much stated even though I’m Scottish I’d have very much liked England to win. 
 

Just seems to be a feeling of “meh” here out and about in Norwich right now, groans at full time but very much back to normal within 20 minutes. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah it's been more subdued than usual. Netherlands game was amazing but apart from that little enthusiasm.

 

Still, a Norwich lad won Wimbledon today...

[Foxmeister]

13 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

82 was weird. Knocked out without losing a game thanks to the weird 3 team group system FIFA adopted for the 2nd round.

There were 2 groups of death in that 2nd round us, Germany and Spain in 1 and Italy, Argentina and Brazil in another. If it hadn't been for the "disgrace of Gijon" there's a very good chance we'd have won it, for me it's the 1 that got away in my lifetime.

 

Packet of fruit pastilles for anyone who can name Argentina's no. 1 in 1982, a clue being he was very famous for playing in England. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 minute ago, Foxmeister said:

There were 2 groups of death in that 2nd round us, Germany and Spain in 1 and Italy, Argentina and Brazil in another. If it hadn't been for the "disgrace of Gijon" there's a very good chance we'd have won it, for me it's the 1 that got away in my lifetime.

 

Packet of fruit pastilles for anyone who can name Argentina's no. 1 in 1982, a clue being he was very famous for playing in England. 

Ossie wore no.1 didn't he?

[SheppyFox]

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, Foxmeister said:

There were 2 groups of death in that 2nd round us, Germany and Spain in 1 and Italy, Argentina and Brazil in another. If it hadn't been for the "disgrace of Gijon" there's a very good chance we'd have won it, for me it's the 1 that got away in my lifetime.

 

Packet of fruit pastilles for anyone who can name Argentina's no. 1 in 1982, a clue being he was very famous for playing in England. 

Haha. They numbered their squad based on the alphabet like we did I think 

[J. James]

27 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I’ve lived through about six ‘golden generations’ and none of them have won anything.

 

I dunno if it’s unrealistic expectations or if we’re just not as good as we think we are.

Serial international losers.

I strongly believe its the latter, the press build these players up and knock others down.

Morata a case in point, considered not good enough for the prem whereas Kane is only just short of a combination of Greaves, Lineker and Shearer at their best!

 

The reality at international level has proven entirely the opposite in Germany.

 

They have built these expectations for years.

Unfortunately the FA are so timid in their managerial appointments preferring a man who talks a good game and wont rock the boat to a proven winner who could pick and play a TEAM not a group of players loved by journos.

 

Honestly l dont think l will see the City win the prem again, l doubt I'll see us win the FA cup again, but l absolutely know l wont see England win a major trophy.

[filbertway]

4 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

You can’t have watched Spain v france semi final and thought that was awful. 
Ps see below clip of when ‘football was real’ - you cannot possibly have enjoyed this crap, the ball doesn’t tough the floor. Without rose tinted and heavily skewed glasses on, the standard of football and ability is miles better now.

 

 

England fans left baffled by corner routine that ends up back with Jordan Pickford as they brand it 'criminal' | The Sun

 

This was dead entertaining.

 

There's no correct way to play football, but people ultimately fall in love with the game because it's entertaining and passionate.

 

Too many coaches in the game trying to such both of those qualities out of the game in their pursuit of edging the percentages.

 

[FrankieADZ]

i do think the players are good enough, but its about picking the right team, not the individuals, look at us when we won the league, wasnt the best players but as a collective team they fit hand in glove

 

something England havent gone, the team he picked felt wrong anyway with Kane and Foden in there, kane cant press for all the tea in china, and foden just dont look right at all in that formation, 

the best players dont always make the best team, and this tournament has shown that for a number of teams

[Corky]

The next six games are against Ireland, Finland and Greece. After that it will be World Cup qualifying. A great chance to give Watkins a run, Palmer, Konsa, Toney, maybe even other keepers a go. Mix it up more.

[Foxmeister]

10 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Haha. They numbered their squad based on the alphabet like we did I think 

I never noticed we did it too, we at least had the decency to exclude the goalkeepers from that rule though.

[Guest Col city fan]

We could have exactly the same conversation as we’d had after the last two major tournaments.

There is a peculiarly British thing that almost suggests that winning isn’t acceptable.

I’ve written before about the pervasion of political correctness that IS a factor in the current UK (I think it’s beyond dispute personally) and how I think it influences lots of things we now do in this country.

I’ve been listening to the media over the past few weeks, regarding the England team, with real intent.

I can’t remember which game it was (possibly Slovakia) when the likes of Lineker and Shearer were just being honest when they were criticising the lack of intent from the team. We were all saying the same thing in here. We literally scraped through beating Slovakia and then, the Swiss, by the skin of our teeth.

Suddenly though, the negativity stopped. Almost as if the Beeb had had a word with the pundits and told them to tone it down.

The reality of the situation (that Southgate IS a defensively minded manager who is stifling the creativity of his teams) was hidden under comments that turned the reality into fantasy. Presumably because it accorded to this ‘what is correct to say and what isn’t’ mentality.

The nation changed too. Posters on here changed. Rather than being able to discuss what we knew was true (possibly the best example was that Kane shouldn’t start) we almost started to apologise for having ever been critical in the first place.

The reality is that, other than a few good halves of football and some flashes of individual brilliance, the England team have played bang average and, in some cases, quite appallingly, given their potential.

I was literally hearing Adrian Durham earlier today on Talk Sport stating that Southgate was pretty much out of this world, backed up by Stuart Pearce (who I think says ANYTHING the public want to hear) suggesting if he went into Politics, he’d vote for him!!

FFS…. Let’s be real. We’ll never win anything unless, like Spain did, we actually try to win.

Trying not to lose and actively seeking to win are poles apart. And Southgate unfortunately conforms to the former and always has.

Unless the FA back a real winner AND someone who ISNT as fookin PC as Southgate is (Christ, we’ve become soft as a nation) and who is a little bit ruthless, we’ll never win a tournament.

However, I know contemporary Britain and I know the FA. If he wants to stay, I’ve no doubt that the media will come out with the same old rhetoric ‘we were so close’ etc and the FA will be openly celebrating a further 4 year contract for a manager who seems a nice bloke but who has neither the bite nor the tactical prowess to win anything.

Brian Clough once said that all football management is 95% the same. It’s the final 5% that counts and makes the best, the best. I agree.

I think England have been really average this tournament, only made the final because of the lucky draw we had and have failed again when, again, we had a real chance to actually win something.

I bet you now that it’s swept under the carpet yet again and what people REALLY want to say in the media and ESPECIALLY at the BBC, is toned down to such an extent that Southgate is almost reified,

I betcha.

 

Edited 14 July by Col city fan

[Foxdiamond]

10 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

i do think the players are good enough, but its about picking the right team, not the individuals, look at us when we won the league, wasnt the best players but as a collective team they fit hand in glove

 

something England havent gone, the team he picked felt wrong anyway with Kane and Foden in there, kane cant press for all the tea in china, and foden just dont look right at all in that formation, 

the best players dont always make the best team, and this tournament has shown that for a number of teams

Alf Ramsey told Jack Charlton he wasn't the best player or even best centre half but he had a pattern of play that Jack fitted