England post match

[fazzyfox]

I can take some of the things, the tiredness, the problems at LB, the chance that elite opposition flair players may hurt you, that Spain could be better than us, but our own sloppiness, poor passing, poor movement, poor positioning and recovery and the general weirdness of Kanes contribution, not making the necessary forward runs but coming deep to get in the way of Bellingham and Foden (and at times even deeper) are harder to take.  Southgates stubborn belief in Kane, Palmer not getting more of Fodens minutes and a reaction of surprise from the camp that we were complaining at a lack of cohesion and momentum make it even worse, we could be so much better. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 minute ago, Lesta2014 said:

Way to go is rice holding, saka Bellingham Foden palmer infront and then Watkins up top 

Not convinced Bellingham and Foden can play together effectively after watching this tournament. Needs to be one or the other.

[Lesta2014]

1 minute ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Not convinced Bellingham and Foden can play together effectively after watching this tournament. Needs to be one or the other.

Possibly, just want to see us try and utilise attacking talent, don’t need two holding though, although maino has a bright future. Nice problem to have. 

[foxes_rule1978]

3 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Not convinced Bellingham and Foden can play together effectively after watching this tournament. Needs to be one or the other.

One 1️⃣ agree with, just sometimes you can’t just play the best 11 players you have to compromise, we don’t do this… and it is an age old problem 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Just now, foxes_rule1978 said:

One 1️⃣ agree with, just sometimes you can’t just play the best 11 players you have to compromise, we don’t do this… and it is an age old problem 

It's like the Lampard/Gerrard situation all over again. Both wanting to play the same role, and take up the same positions. Ended up with Bellingham dominating through sheer personality and Foden shrinking away looking completely neutered.

[Flynny]

8 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Not convinced Bellingham and Foden can play together effectively after watching this tournament. Needs to be one or the other.

On top of that, I couldn’t really see what Rice was doing the whole tournament, and he seemed to lose possession quite a lot. Midfield really does need sorting.

 

Much as Jude looks great at 10 for Real, I suspect England need him at 8 in harness with Rice and to leave Foden some actual room to do his stuff. Will also work better if we stop automatically starting Kane. 

[grth2004]

Goodbye Southgate 

you gave us some great memories 

but it’s time to move on

We need a manager to take us to the next level. 

[Super_horns]

If Southgate  goes what sort of  manager would people want?

1. Fancy name
2. Young or more experienced manager
3. A well qualified coach/one working at the FA like Southgate has been 

4. Do they have to be English ?

[foxes_rule1978]

4 minutes ago, grth2004 said:

Goodbye Southgate 

you gave us some great memories 

but it’s time to move on

We need a manager to take us to the next level. 

He was the right man at that time. Good with young players and reshaped the England team.  Now the job is beyond him, he has world class superstars that he doesn’t have a clue how to handle… aka Martinez at Belgium, and now Portugal. Both sides have better players than Spain and Italy 

Edited 14 July by foxes_rule1978

[Flynny]

Just now, Super_horns said:

If Southgate  goes what sort of  manager would people want?

1. Fancy name
2. Young or more experienced manager
3. A well qualified coach/one working at the FA like Southgate has been 

4. Do they have to be English ?

I think it’s important to be aware we aren’t going to get someone proven at elite level to be a national coach. The most important thing we can go for with this squad is someone who we think can properly coach attacking patterns of play. Even if they’re not a big name, which they probably won’t be, I’ll think the FA have it right if that’s what they gamble on, even if the gamble doesn’t pan out.

 

Do also think Southgate has made me think there is something intangibly much better about an English coach.

[Happy Fox]

England had the piss easiest selection to the final no excuses to not reach this stage. If they had played the likes of France / Germany they would have been knocked out earlier.

 

 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

4 minutes ago, grth2004 said:

Goodbye Southgate 

you gave us some great memories 

but it’s time to move on

We need a manager to take us to the next level. 

That's a beautiful poem. Very poignant.

[trabuch]

58 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

Good: Pickford, Shaw (til he ran out of gas), Saka (who had a good tournament), Guehi, Stones, the subs.

 

Meh: Rice, Mainoo, whoever else I haven't mentioned.

 

Not good: Bellingham (who, over the whole tournament, played one great half and scored a worldie then took July fortnight off, and today tried some disgraceful chucking himself to the floor in agony ), Foden (who had half a good game against the Dutch but not much more), Walker.

 

Awful:  Kane - Retire right now you hoss faced trophyphobic flat track bully.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't like Pickford - but he kept us in it. I hate Harry Kane - I despise him - he's a selfish useless **** who has contributed the square root of **** all to any team he has ever been in. But he's scored a lot of goals (from where? against who?) so he has to be picked first. Aaaaaand relax....

[foxes_rule1978]

6 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

England had the piss easiest selection to the final no excuses to not reach this stage. If they had played the likes of France / Germany they would have been knocked out earlier.

 

 

Well we can make assumptions and get gratification because England were finally beaten… statements like this are frustrating. Yeah I agree southgate is useless but random rubbish especially when the French are mentioned is boring. I don’t deal in ifs, buts and maybes that is for sure

Edited 14 July by foxes_rule1978

[Guest Col city fan]

We could have exactly the same conversation as we’d had after the last two major tournaments.

There is a peculiarly British thing that almost suggests that winning isn’t acceptable.

I’ve written before about the pervasion of political correctness that IS a factor in the current UK (I think it’s beyond dispute personally) and how I think it influences lots of things we now do in this country.

I’ve been listening to the media over the past few weeks, regarding the England team, with real intent.

I can’t remember which game it was (possibly Slovakia) when the likes of Lineker and Shearer were just being honest when they were criticising the lack of intent from the team. We were all saying the same thing in here. We literally scraped through beating Slovakia and then, the Swiss, by the skin of our teeth.

Suddenly though, the negativity stopped. Almost as if the Beeb had had a word with the pundits and told them to tone it down.

The reality of the situation (that Southgate IS a defensively minded manager who is stifling the creativity of his teams) was hidden under comments that turned the reality into fantasy. Presumably because it accorded to this ‘what is correct to say and what isn’t’ mentality.

The nation changed too. Posters on here changed. Rather than being able to discuss what we knew was true (possibly the best example was that Kane shouldn’t start) we almost started to apologise for having ever been critical in the first place.

The reality is that, other than a few good halves of football and some flashes of individual brilliance, the England team have played bang average and, in some cases, quite appallingly, given their potential.

I was literally hearing Adrian Durham earlier today on Talk Sport stating that Southgate was pretty much out of this world, backed up by Stuart Pearce (who I think says ANYTHING the public want to hear) suggesting if he went into Politics, he’d vote for him!!

FFS…. Let’s be real. We’ll never win anything unless, like Spain did, we actually try to win.

Trying not to lose and actively seeking to win are poles apart. And Southgate unfortunately conforms to the former and always has.

Unless the FA back a real winner AND someone who ISNT as fookin PC as Southgate is (Christ, we’ve become soft as a nation) and who is a little bit ruthless, we’ll never win a tournament.

However, I know contemporary Britain and I know the FA. If he wants to stay, I’ve no doubt that the media will come out with the same old rhetoric ‘we were so close’ etc and the FA will be openly celebrating a further 4 year contract for a manager who seems a nice bloke but who has neither the bite nor the tactical prowess to win anything.

Brian Clough once said that all football management is 95% the same. It’s the final 5% that counts and makes the best, the best. I agree.

I think England have been really average this tournament, only made the final because of the lucky draw we had and have failed again when, again, we had a real chance to actually win something.

I bet you now that it’s swept under the carpet yet again and what people REALLY want to say in the media and ESPECIALLY at the BBC, is toned down to such an extent that Southgate is almost reified,

I betcha.

[Happy Fox]

1 minute ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Well we can make assumptions and get gratification because England were finally beaten… statements like this are frustrating. Yeah I agree southgate is useless but random rubbish especially when the French are mentioned is boring 

Truth hurts mate, England cannot Beat the big boys, get a competitive decent manager and they would.

[trabuch]

France were very much worse than expected. Mbappe was pants.  He was poor and should have been left out - but he's a "star" - and their manager is a negative bore bag - and if they have any sense they'll sack him, rather than offering him a four year contract as the highest paid international manager in football..

[foxes_rule1978]

2 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Truth hurts mate, England cannot Beat the big boys, get a competitive decent manager and they would.

Well I agree, southgate is useless… but I’ll never go and prove that by not using facts. I’ll use the fact he was beaten by Croatia. France, Spain and Italy. Croatia I give him because back then we were truly on our knees… now we have some of the best players in the world the excuses need to stop 

[kristianity77]

I thought that even though we got to the final which in itself is great to see, everything that is wrong with England was laid out for all to see in that game.

 

We fluked our way there, has an easy passage again to the latter stages and got massively found out once we come up against a decent nation. 
 

Papering over the cracks, Southgate is a dinosaur

[trabuch]

1 minute ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Well I agree, southgate is useless… but I’ll never go and prove that by not using facts. I’ll use the fact he was beaten by Croatia. France, Spain and Italy. Croatia I give him because back then we were truly on our knees… now we have some of the best players in the world the excuses need to stop 

We were 1-0 up with Vardy on the bench.

[Muzzy_no7]

Lower XG than Croatia who played 3 games against tougher opponents.

 

We played 7 games…

 

He HAS to go.

 

Klopp or Potter.

 

Carsley would be exactly the same. 

[foxes_rule1978]

Just now, trabuch said:

We were 1-0 up with Vardy on the bench.

Well that is southgate  but I meant from the iceland shock so he got credit and he was new to the job. The thing is he hasn’t improved at all, just the players have outgrown him now 

[foxes_rule1978]

I have a feeling klopp would actually jump at the job 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

If Southgate does go I'd rather the FA go all out for Howe rather than give it to Potter. Potter is dull, dull, dull. Howe, for all his flaws, at least sends his teams out with some intent.

[trabuch]

Just now, foxes_rule1978 said:

Well that is southgate  but I meant from the iceland shock so he got credit and he was new to the job. The thing is he hasn’t improved at all, just the players have outgrown him now 

Because I'm a bit pissed and a contrary type. I think Southgate has done something psychologically to the England team spirit that is positive. But I think his lack of understanding of tactics is incredibly frustrating from a fans viewpoint. I'd like a manager that has both skills - or one that knows he needs assistance.