honeybradger Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July 14 hours ago, coolhandfox said: Even if that mean stifling their development? What happens to Skipp if Baybrooke goes out and proves himself on loan? If Skipp doesnt cut it then what's stopping us from spending £10m on a new midfielder even if Baybrooke does well? Dewsbury Hall went through the whole loan process and it still took Soumare not being good enough for him to get a chance. If we're willing to spend £10m on a backup midfielder then that means that there are minutes to spare for our own academy players, why fork out £10m on the academy player of another team that doesn't cut the mustard at PL level anyway? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July Pretty sure Alves and Braybrooke will go out on loan, hopefully with a Jan return clause. I'd keep Golding around and let him settle, maybe send him out in Jan if he's not ready. Will be interesting which Soumare came back from Sevilla, YouTube clips suggest he was a tidy Winks style player for them (puts on crash helmet for obvs and inevitable Soumare fall-out). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2607 Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July 4 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Are you sure? Barnes and KDH clearly benefited from the regular playing time they got from their loan moves. Compare that to Thomas who stayed around the first team. There’s certainly an argument to say that finding the right development moves for a player is better over the long term than focusing on short term squad needs. yes but loans don't automatically mean progress into the first team do they.... I suspect it's highly likely that Thomas doesn't / didn't have the same ceiling or ability that Barnes or KDH have. Iversen went on loan... does that mean we can sell him for £30m in the next year or so? Paul Appiah went on loan as well and has been released. correlation and causation are not the asme thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post coolhandfox Posted 18 July Popular Post Share Posted 18 July (edited) 48 minutes ago, honeybradger said: What happens to Skipp if Baybrooke goes out and proves himself on loan? If Skipp doesnt cut it then what's stopping us from spending £10m on a new midfielder even if Baybrooke does well? Dewsbury Hall went through the whole loan process and it still took Soumare not being good enough for him to get a chance. If we're willing to spend £10m on a backup midfielder then that means that there are minutes to spare for our own academy players, why fork out £10m on the academy player of another team that doesn't cut the mustard at PL level anyway? Comparing KDH and Braybrooke situation are like comparing apples and pears. KDH was nearly 23 when he made his debut, coming of the back of a season loan at Luton in the Championship, have played 39 games and winning Luton player of the season award, plus another 10 games at Blackpool in league 1. Braybrooke is 20 years old with 15 senior level minutes and has just recovered from a ACL. Skipp has 159 senior apps under his belt by the age of 23, he hardly a academy player. He's played 3792 PL minutes, KDH has 4421 PL minutes as a 25 year old. As it stand we have the following CM options Winks, Ndidi, Choudhury, Golding and Braybrooke, (if Soumare doesn't have a future here) So as it stands we are two injuries away from choose 2 of Choudhury, Golding and Braybrooke. We need a CM and an ACM for me. Edited 18 July by coolhandfox 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereBeFoxes Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July Only if we sign this guy too: https://www.northcarolinafc.com/roster/justin-malou/ I have long wanted to hear the commentary “Skipp… Skipp… Skipp to Malou… Goal!!!!” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeybradger Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July (edited) 26 minutes ago, coolhandfox said: Comparing KDH and Braybrooke situation are like comparing apples and pears. KDH was nearly 23 when he made his debut, coming of the back of a season loan at Luton in the Championship, have played 39 games and winning Luton player of the season award, plus another 10 games at Blackpool in league 1. Braybrooke is 20 years old with 15 senior level minutes and has just recovered from a ACL. Skipp has 159 senior apps under his belt by the age of 23, he hardly a academy player. He's played 3792 PL minutes, KDH has 4421 PL minutes as a 25 year old. As it stand we have the following CM options Winks, Ndidi, Choudhury, Golding and Braybrooke, (if Soumare doesn't have a future here) So as it stands we are two injuries away from choose 2 of Choudhury, Golding and Braybrooke. We need a CM and an ACM for me. He's an academy player in the way that you wouldn't trust him with regular PL minutes, the same way that we wouldn't trust Choudhury as a regular starter. If we do have injuries to Winks and Ndidi then we are guaranteed to go down with Skipp as a starter same with Choudhury, Golding and Baybrooke. At least with the likes of Golding and Baybrooke they might develop into PL level players and wont cost £10m. Edited 18 July by honeybradger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ClaphamFox Posted 18 July Popular Post Share Posted 18 July 26 minutes ago, HereBeFoxes said: Only if we sign this guy too: https://www.northcarolinafc.com/roster/justin-malou/ I have long wanted to hear the commentary “Skipp… Skipp… Skipp to Malou… Goal!!!!” It's a shame Martin Dahlin has retired. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edingleyfox Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July (edited) Sky Sports reporting re Skipp that his club trained status makes it very unlikely that he will leave the club. Edited 18 July by Edingleyfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July 6 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Are you sure? Barnes and KDH clearly benefited from the regular playing time they got from their loan moves. Compare that to Thomas who stayed around the first team. There’s certainly an argument to say that finding the right development moves for a player is better over the long term than focusing on short term squad needs. If they aren't going to play then of course I'd rather they went out on loan but given our documented financial problems, I'd rather we didn't stretch ourselves on squad players and instead focus our funds on improvements to the starting XI and then use the likes of Alves and Braybrooke. Plenty of examples of not requiring a loan, there's an argument playing at the highest level with better players at better facilities with better coaches will be more beneficial than a loan move to the lower leagues. But plenty of examples to the contrary too. It's all about playing time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZ-LCFC Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July deal unlikely according to sky sports 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyCleary Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July 4 hours ago, coolhandfox said: Comparing KDH and Braybrooke situation are like comparing apples and pears. KDH was nearly 23 when he made his debut, coming of the back of a season loan at Luton in the Championship, have played 39 games and winning Luton player of the season award, plus another 10 games at Blackpool in league 1. Braybrooke is 20 years old with 15 senior level minutes and has just recovered from a ACL. Skipp has 159 senior apps under his belt by the age of 23, he hardly a academy player. He's played 3792 PL minutes, KDH has 4421 PL minutes as a 25 year old. As it stand we have the following CM options Winks, Ndidi, Choudhury, Golding and Braybrooke, (if Soumare doesn't have a future here) So as it stands we are two injuries away from choose 2 of Choudhury, Golding and Braybrooke. We need a CM and an ACM for me. Ricardo borderline a cm these days as well. Obviously depends on cooper but feels very well covered at CM imo, putting that money into a striker surely the priority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July 3 hours ago, Ric Flair said: It's all about playing time. I’m not sure that is the case anymore. Of course if you’re loaning players you want them to play - but I think a bigger part of the calculation for loans these days is how players react to a new environment, new voices, one that is likely less comfortable than the one they’re already in, one where they can potentially be a big fish in a small pool rather than a small one in a lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July 5 hours ago, Greg2607 said: yes but loans don't automatically mean progress into the first team do they.... correlation and causation are not the asme thing. No of course not - but I think clubs have realised loans provide much more than just the playing time as I’ve mentioned in the post above and that the mental aspects it develops can help decision makers decide how ready a player is going in from there. I highlighted Barnes, KDH and Thomas because I feel one of the areas Thomas lacked was a level of mental toughness and maybe application - areas that you could say Barnes and KDH are much better at - and could reasonably conclude that their loan spells helped that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2607 Posted 18 July Share Posted 18 July 38 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: No of course not - but I think clubs have realised loans provide much more than just the playing time as I’ve mentioned in the post above and that the mental aspects it develops can help decision makers decide how ready a player is going in from there. I highlighted Barnes, KDH and Thomas because I feel one of the areas Thomas lacked was a level of mental toughness and maybe application - areas that you could say Barnes and KDH are much better at - and could reasonably conclude that their loan spells helped that. Which is fine.... But KDH went on loan to Luton at 22. Thomas went on loan to sheff utd at 22.... They are going to have very different careers based on their ability. To me, Braybrooke looks like he has the ability to make it and I think he should be involved this year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurru991 Posted 19 July Share Posted 19 July 5 hours ago, Greg2607 said: Which is fine.... But KDH went on loan to Luton at 22. Thomas went on loan to sheff utd at 22.... They are going to have very different careers based on their ability. To me, Braybrooke looks like he has the ability to make it and I think he should be involved this year. It will be very interesting to see what Cooper decides to do with the abundance of young talent this season. It's a difficult position in that we will need to make up points but the young lads wont improve until they play at a higher level. Loans with provision to recall in January might work !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebangsthedrums Posted 20 July Share Posted 20 July Amazed he's 23, looks way older. Not for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindaloo FOX Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July Feel this will happen, but very late on in the transfer window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox42 Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July I’d rather get in Skipp than use Braybrooke - we need experience and can’t rely on raw talent. We simply cannot afford to do that this season. Have them both in the team, sure, but not just the latter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July 11 minutes ago, Fox42 said: I’d rather get in Skipp than use Braybrooke - we need experience and can’t rely on raw talent. We simply cannot afford to do that this season. Have them both in the team, sure, but not just the latter. Couldn't disagree more with this if I tried. Our squad has plenty of experience already and our financial problems should prioritise developing academy players as much as possible, not to mention our facilities and strategy as a club. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July Just now, Ric Flair said: Couldn't disagree more with this if I tried. Our squad has plenty of experience already and our financial problems should prioritise developing academy players as much as possible, not to mention our facilities and strategy as a club. Unless he is going to have some serious game time here, his development would surely be best served going on loan where he could week in week out action 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July 36 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: Unless he is going to have some serious game time here, his development would surely be best served going on loan where he could week in week out action It depends. If we're considering Skipp as rotation / back up to Winks but opted to use Braybrooke instead then he'd get game time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandfox Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July (edited) 2 hours ago, Ric Flair said: Couldn't disagree more with this if I tried. Our squad has plenty of experience already and our financial problems should prioritise developing academy players as much as possible, not to mention our facilities and strategy as a club. Think you are being a bit blinkered thinking the only way to develop players is to stick them in the first team. KDH and Barnes developed going on loan and working there way up the levels. Both Alves and Braybrooke need to build confidence in senior football. Do you think Alves would be benefit more from playing limited minutes in a struggling PL side or being the key player in a L1 side scoring goals and getting assists this season. I think the likeliness of Nelson, Alves and Braybrooke all get minutes this is unlikely. I've got a feeling Braybrooke and Nelson get loans and Alves stays. Edited 21 July by coolhandfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimJams Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July 40 minutes ago, coolhandfox said: Think you are being a bit blinkered thinking the only way to develop players is to stick me in the first team. I don't think sticking you in the first team is going to help anyone tbf. Though I wish you luck. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July 1 hour ago, coolhandfox said: Think you are being a bit blinkered thinking the only way to develop players is to stick them in the first team. KDH and Barnes developed going on loan and working there way up the levels. Both Alves and Braybrooke need to build confidence in senior football. Do you think Alves would be benefit more from playing limited minutes in a struggling PL side or being the key player in a L1 side scoring goals and getting assists this season. I think the likeliness of Nelson, Alves and Braybrooke all get minutes this is unlikely. I've got a feeling Braybrooke and Nelson get loans and Alves stays. I don't think that's the only way to develop players at all. If they aren't going to play here this season then I want them to get a loan move but I question why we shouldn't use them. I'm not interested in us spending £10-20m on players to use in their place. If we got 1-2 in on loan ourselves and sent them on loan so that in 12 months they come back PL or if we go down then top end Championship ready then so be it but we shouldn't kill ourselves financially trying to stay up either. We already have a good amount of experience in the squad. I'd rather focus funds on key 1st team starters and then use Alves and Braybrooke as rotation for Mavididi and Winks. I want a long term plan that our academy is at the core of. We need it to survive financially anyway IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran Posted 21 July Share Posted 21 July Waste of time and money. Rather we'd just invest in and take a chance on Sammy Braybrooke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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