Paris Olympic Games 2024

[Pliskin]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

What does it matter what they look like? Fatima Whitbread has masculine features, doesn’t mean she’s a bloke does it? 
 

Maybe the IOC screwed up and maybe the Italian just got beaten by a better boxer. They’re in the same weight category so it’s hardly like they’ve put a heavyweight in with a lightweight. 
 

People are just jumping on it because they’re raging transphobes. Yes it’s complicated but people are just plain rude.

It’s a sensitive topic however, I disagree that Khelif is simply the better boxer. 
 

There’s been a lot of mention about chromosomes, however, the anatomy of a male and a female are both completely different. From muscle characteristics and bone structure the physiological advantage a male anatomy has over a female anatomy is stark. 
 

For me, this is what it boils down to…. And it doesn’t make someone transphobic to think in this instance it is unfair. 
 

Not all sports are equal, each discipline commands different traits from the human anatomy and some are far more beneficial than others. Whereas the argument about chromosomes is valid, it for me isn’t enough of an compelling argument to justify in some sports biological males (and I’ll use this term for anyone who is born and registered as a male at birth) to compete against a biological female. 

Let’s take swimming for example, because it’s something I know a thing or two about. 
 

The world record for the female 100m freestyle is 51.71 seconds set by Sarah Sjostrom.

 

The world record for the males 100m freestyle is 46.40 seconds set by Pan Zanle. 
 

Whereas some people may not think that’s a lot, a second equates to about a mile, which would suggest those two times are worlds apart. 
 

When talking the male and female anatomy there are athletic traits that are just natural as a result the male anatomy of a top level swimmer (sprinter) will have a greater advantage when it comes to fast twitch fibres, and the way their muscles react, work and even recover. They’re likely to have a greater lung capacity, and physically they’re likely to be taller, have a longer wing span, bigger feet and larger muscles in terms of pushing and pulling. The one disadvantage is the male anatomy is likely to be heavier, but having said that can produce more power. 

When considering the female anatomy, the obvious point to raise is the female menstrual cycle, this will have an impact when considering elite female athletes, this is something only females experience, a person who is born as a biological male won’t experience this. 
 

There are examples within individual

sports where the gap between a male and female anatomy isn’t always that much of an advantage but for most sports a male anatomy definitely holds and advantage over a female anatomy. 
 

If you’re born a biological male and grow to have a biological males anatomy, this won’t change, regardless of chromosomes and any treatment used in transitional processes, and when you train your body will react appropriately, with the correct supplementation it will continue to react, muscle composition doesn’t change if you transition, it merely diminishes with age. 
 

My personal opinion is it’s a very sensitive subject….. no one have the right to tell a person who they are, if a person transitions from the gender they were born as, it should be respected by all and they should be allowed to live their lives as they please.

 

My only opinion is when it comes to sport there’s too many naturally contradicting traits that just make the playing field a potentially unfair one. Equality in sport is hugely important, and in swimming for example the male category is technically ‘open’ which allows female athletes to compete with and against their male athletes in a mixed environment, which means however a person chooses to identify they can complete freely.

 

The issue that’s been raised is in the sports where physiological and anatomical differences have a bearing on performance and results there has to be a level playing field to not compromise the integrity of competitive sports. 
 

Sports is a very difficult subject to really address, because unfortunately as I’ve said, the male anatomy has the capacity to be more productive than a female anatomy within the context of the whole sport. 
 

My closing argument is Lia Thomas, she is a transgender female swimmer her personal best (recorded) time for 200m freestyle is 1:41:93, Ariana Titmus is the current female world record holder in the same discipline her time is 1:52:23. Thomas prior to transitioning to a female was a fairly average male swimmer at her university team, yet, her best ever time is faster than the female world record. I think this highlights the physiological and anatomic differences between males and females, because Ariana is definitely a better swimmer than Thomas, however the time would suggest otherwise. 
 

I’m not remotely transphobic and I hope this post doesn’t come across as ignorant, I’m all for equality in sports, it’s integral for the development of humanity, but it can’t be to the detriment of something else, namely female sports, there’s been equality between male and female sport, and there still is if a fair system can be introduced that allows all to compete together than it should be, but until that’s the case, we have ensure that fairness is practiced across competitive sports. 

 

Edited 1 August by Pliskin

[Lionator]

12 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

It’s a sensitive topic however, I disagree that Khelif is simply the better boxer. 
 

There’s been a lot of mention about chromosomes, however, the anatomy of a male and a female are both completely different. From muscle characteristics and bone structure the physiological advantage a male anatomy has over a female anatomy is stark. 
 

For me, this is what it boils down to…. And it doesn’t make someone transphobic to think in this instance it is unfair. 
 

Not all sports are equal, each discipline commands different traits from the human anatomy and some are far more beneficial than others. Whereas the argument about chromosomes is valid, it for me isn’t enough of an compelling argument to justify in some sports biological males (and I’ll use this term for anyone who is born and registered as a male at birth) to compete against a biological female. 

Let’s take swimming for example, because it’s something I know a thing or two about. 
 

The world record for the female 100m freestyle is 51.71 seconds set by Sarah Sjostrom.

 

The world record for the males 100m freestyle is 46.40 seconds set by Pan Zanle. 
 

Whereas some people may not think that’s a lot, a second equates to about a mile, which would suggest those two times are worlds apart. 
 

When talking the male and female anatomy there are athletic traits that are just natural as a result the male anatomy of a top level swimmer (sprinter) will have a greater advantage when it comes to fast twitch fibres, and the way their muscles react, work and even recover. They’re likely to have a greater lung capacity, and physically they’re likely to be taller, have a longer wing span, bigger feet and larger muscles in terms of pushing and pulling. The one disadvantage is the male anatomy is likely to be heavier, but having said that can produce more power. 

When considering the female anatomy, the obvious point to raise is the female menstrual cycle, this will have an impact when considering elite female athletes, this is something only females experience, a person who is born as a biological male won’t experience this. 
 

There are examples within individual

sports where the gap between a male and female anatomy isn’t always that much of an advantage but for most sports a male anatomy definitely holds and advantage over a female anatomy. 
 

If you’re born a biological male and grow to have a biological males anatomy, this won’t change, regardless of chromosomes and any treatment used in transitional processes, and when you train your body will react appropriately, with the correct supplementation it will continue to react, muscle composition doesn’t change if you transition, it merely diminishes with age. 
 

My personal opinion is it’s a very sensitive subject….. no one have the right to tell a person who they are, if a person transitions from the gender they were born as, it should be respected by all and they should be allowed to live their lives as they please.

 

My only opinion is when it comes to sport there’s too many naturally contradicting traits that just make the playing field a potentially unfair one. Equality in sport is hugely important, and in swimming for example the male category is technically ‘open’ which allows female athletes to compete with and against their male athletes in a mixed environment, which means however a person chooses to identify they can complete freely.

 

The issue that’s been raised is in the sports where physiological and anatomical differences have a bearing on performance and results there has to be a level playing field to not compromise the integrity of competitive sports. 
 

Sports is a very difficult subject to really address, because unfortunately as I’ve said, the male anatomy has the capacity to be more productive than a female anatomy within the context of the whole sport. 
 

My closing argument is Lia Thomas, she is a transgender female swimmer her personal best (recorded) time for 200m freestyle is 1:41:93, Ariana Titmus is the current female world record holder in the same discipline her time is 1:52:23. Thomas prior to transitioning to a female Lia was a fairly average male swimmer at her university team, yet, her best ever time is faster than the female world record. I think this highlights the physiological and anatomic differences between males and females, because Ariana is definitely a better swimmer than Leah Thomas, however the time would suggest otherwise. 
 

I’m not remotely transphobic and I hope this post doesn’t come across as ignorant, I’m all for equality in sports, it’s integral for the development of humanity, but it can’t be to the detriment of something else, namely female sports, there’s been equality between male and female sport, and there still is if a fair system can be introduced that allows all to compete together than it should be, but until that’s the case, we have ensure that fairness is practiced across competitive sports. 

 

All I’ll say about Khelif is that her record is absolutely crap for somebody with such an apparent unfair advantage. 
 

You also don’t come across as transphobic at all. This is a legitimate and very complicated conversation that should be done on a case by case basis. I’m just annoyed at the people who will hijack this because they think trans people are sub human. 

Edited 1 August by Lionator

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

All I’ll say about Khelif is that her record is absolutely crap for somebody with such an apparent unfair advantage. 

Agreed it is! 

[trabuch]

Clarke is going well in the paddling.  Definite gold chance. Final at 4.30 apparently.

Edited 1 August by trabuch

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

I literally said the IOC screwed up. I’m talking about the horrible personal attacks that this poor Algerian woman has to go through, through no fault of her own. 

No fault of her own? Well yes she actually entered into women's Olympic boxing. How about compete against a Man in that same category?

 

It's an actual disgrace that this has been allowed to happen. 

[Lionator]

29 minutes ago, Ashley said:

No fault of her own? Well yes she actually entered into women's Olympic boxing. How about compete against a Man in that same category?

 

It's an actual disgrace that this has been allowed to happen. 

Because then you’d have the same supposed problem, just the other way around?

[leicsmac]

55 minutes ago, Lionator said:

All I’ll say about Khelif is that her record is absolutely crap for somebody with such an apparent unfair advantage. 
 

You also don’t come across as transphobic at all. This is a legitimate and very complicated conversation that should be done on a case by case basis. I’m just annoyed at the people who will hijack this because they think trans people are sub human. 

And will vote for policy enforcing that effect.

 

In on topic news, could indeed be a canoeing gold coming GBs way!

[trabuch]

That French run in the canoeing shows how possible it is to make the time.

[trabuch]

Bad luck Clarke - tough sport that.

[MPH]

 

[whoareyaaa]

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

No fault of her own? Well yes she actually entered into women's Olympic boxing. How about compete against a Man in that same category?

 

It's an actual disgrace that this has been allowed to happen. 

Agreed It’s absolutely ridiculous.

[MPH]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

All I’ll say about Khelif is that her record is absolutely crap for somebody with such an apparent unfair advantage. 
 

You also don’t come across as transphobic at all. This is a legitimate and very complicated conversation that should be done on a case by case basis. I’m just annoyed at the people who will hijack this because they think trans people are sub human. 

it’s worth noting that they were both disqualified from the 2023 world Boxing championship after  testing indicated they had an unfair advantage over other  female competitors. Statement added above.

[ClaphamFox]

17 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

Wow. That statement is pretty damning. 

[Detroit Blues]

Maybe I am completely daft. But does it say how  the athletes were tested? It says they did not do the Testosterone test, which is basically the gold standard. I read that they did a "separate and confidential test." What was the methodology? Is the basis of testing supported by science?

 

Perhaps if the organization was trustworthy, we could just take them at their word, but as mentioned previously they had been stripped by the IOC based on issues governing the sport of boxing, and ethics complaints:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/65987324

 

"The IOC's executive board recommended the move earlier in June after the IBA failed to meet set reforms following its 2019 suspension over governance issues and alleged corruption. Of 70 valid votes on Thursday, 69 voted in favour of the recommendation."

 

"Before the vote, IOC president Thomas Bach said: "We do not have a problem with boxing. We do not have a problem with boxers.

"The boxers fully deserve to be governed by an international federation with integrity and transparency."

In response, the Russian-led IBA accused the IOC of making a "tremendous error" and compared the move to Germany's actions in the Second World War."

 

To me, this reads as a shady organization in the IBA trying to garner anti-trans outrage to lash out at the IOC, for stripping them of the right to govern Olympic boxing. 

[Trent Steel]

4 hours ago, Tommy G said:

I think I saw a bloke do the CR7 celebration when he won earlier, it was early this morning and my eyes might of been playing tricks on me but I'm pretty sure he did, really weird.

they look really weird while their walking too! like they have followed through and need to get to a kharsie quick....

[Trent Steel]

in fact thats probably the tactics that most countries take, feed them a chicken tikka phaal and then 1 hour later let em try and walk it off without messing your sen

 

no wonder he did the "Suuuuuuuuuuuuuu" when he won.  The judges have to check their undies afterwards if there is even a hint of a skiddy they are DQ

 

god im bored whens the footy back on ?

Edited 1 August by Trent Steel

[FoyleFox]

The gymnastics are mesmerizing. I remember doing front flips, backflips and airborne summersalts at school. It was enough to land upright, in one piece, on the floor. These are doing it and landing on a 10cm wide beam, 1.5m in the air.

[Tommy G]

all eyes on Biles again…

[Trent Steel]

seems to be a bit more competitive this year but she will probably nail it now

[Trent Steel]

she is tidy though

[Tommy G]

She’s incredible 

[Trent Steel]

absolutely nails it, what a star

[StanSP]

Absolutely superb by Biles. The Brazilian was insane too. 

[st albans fox]

4 hours ago, Ashley said:

No fault of her own? Well yes she actually entered into women's Olympic boxing. How about compete against a Man in that same category?

 

It's an actual disgrace that this has been allowed to happen. 

But she’s a biological woman 

 

it’s the same issue as with caster semegna - there needs to be a consistent policy across all sports in regard of what happens to biological women who have this testosterone problem. 

[leicsmac]

But "lacking in talent" and "lazy" and a "quitter", apparently.

 

Outstanding performance on the biggest stage.