Palermo Friendly

[Fox92]

I don’t particularly rate either, but Daka was annoying me last night as he very rarely controlled the ball and turned. Nearly every ball that went into him he laid back off.

 

Can’t really take much out of friendlies but we lack so much threat up top and desperately need quality.

[Matt]

26 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Do football clubs get audited because if they do, the findings from the signing of Tom Cannon to back up those of Patson Daka and Iheanacho should be enough to report major failings in our operations.

 

All three of them are forwards who excel in a front two and yet we seldom deploy such a system.

 

Patson Daka's entire impressive career at Salzburg was in a 4-2-2-2 with another striker and the flashes of brilliance for us came in a front two as well. No shit.

 

Tom Cannon was signed on the back of a solid half a season on loan at Preston where you guessed it, he played in a front two and got 9 goals in 20 games. His skill set / weaknesses are clear to see that they are boosted by playing with another striker to create space for him to come alive in the box, rather than do it himself.

 

Iheanacho, whilst his Man City form might not have shown him to have played in a front two, his good performances at Leicester almost exclusively were in a front two, both in 2019/20 and 2020/21 when he single handedly tried to keep us in the top 4 and fire us to Wembley.

 

Despite all of this we don't ever do the due diligence to see whether our managers favour such a system and yet we still sign strikers for that way of playing. Infuriating.

This has been my bug bear for a very long time.

 

So the club wanted to go down the route of possession, yet we continued to sign players suited for a fast counter attacking style.

 

Managers get appointed and/or instructed to play a certain way but get hamstrung by given players who are suited to the opposite.

 

I do believe Cooper is most likely to be able to adapt, work to strengths and get the best out of what he's given though rather than the previous few managers - not saying it'll be successful but he won't be as stubborn and he'll atleast try something different.

 

Edited 27 July by Matt

[Foxin_Mad]

To be honest we are really blunt. We had a lack of creativity last year, we have not only not solved that we got rid of the only bloke who was creative! We need a creative player and a decent striker. Neither and Derbys points record is in serious danger of bring broken I'm afraid. 

[rugbyblue]

9 hours ago, phoneticerror said:

There is no point arguing, you’re correct. Daka has got worse with every season he’s played for us. How anybody can back him sincerely is astonishing.

Agreed.  I would not even give him a sniff of the bench (waiting for the wisecracks) in a league game and it's rare I single out players.

[Dan LCFC]

8 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Do football clubs get audited because if they do, the findings from the signing of Tom Cannon to back up those of Patson Daka and Iheanacho should be enough to report major failings in our operations.

 

All three of them are forwards who excel in a front two and yet we seldom deploy such a system.

 

Patson Daka's entire impressive career at Salzburg was in a 4-2-2-2 with another striker and the flashes of brilliance for us came in a front two as well. No shit.

 

Tom Cannon was signed on the back of a solid half a season on loan at Preston where you guessed it, he played in a front two and got 9 goals in 20 games. His skill set / weaknesses are clear to see that they are boosted by playing with another striker to create space for him to come alive in the box, rather than do it himself.

 

Iheanacho, whilst his Man City form might not have shown him to have played in a front two, his good performances at Leicester almost exclusively were in a front two, both in 2019/20 and 2020/21 when he single handedly tried to keep us in the top 4 and fire us to Wembley.

 

Despite all of this we don't ever do the due diligence to see whether our managers favour such a system and yet we still sign strikers for that way of playing. Infuriating.

It's ****ing ridiculous. We create deadwood for ourselves by signing players who are ill fitted to a style of play that we want to play. The Souttar signing and situation around him is everything wrong with us.

[Stadt]

14 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Do football clubs get audited because if they do, the findings from the signing of Tom Cannon to back up those of Patson Daka and Iheanacho should be enough to report major failings in our operations.

 

All three of them are forwards who excel in a front two and yet we seldom deploy such a system.

 

Patson Daka's entire impressive career at Salzburg was in a 4-2-2-2 with another striker and the flashes of brilliance for us came in a front two as well. No shit.

 

Tom Cannon was signed on the back of a solid half a season on loan at Preston where you guessed it, he played in a front two and got 9 goals in 20 games. His skill set / weaknesses are clear to see that they are boosted by playing with another striker to create space for him to come alive in the box, rather than do it himself.

 

Iheanacho, whilst his Man City form might not have shown him to have played in a front two, his good performances at Leicester almost exclusively were in a front two, both in 2019/20 and 2020/21 when he single handedly tried to keep us in the top 4 and fire us to Wembley.

 

Despite all of this we don't ever do the due diligence to see whether our managers favour such a system and yet we still sign strikers for that way of playing. Infuriating.

It’s almost like there should be a higher up role that aligns long term recruitment, squad planning and managerial recruitment

[Supergray22]

25 minutes ago, Stadt said:

It’s almost like there should be a higher up role that aligns long term recruitment, squad planning and managerial recruitment

Our strategy should have been clearly communicated understood and followed by everyone at the club. Any departures from this should have been analysed and understood before sign off. Surely?

[TheStig]

4 hours ago, Supergray22 said:

Our strategy should have been clearly communicated understood and followed by everyone at the club. Any departures from this should have been analysed and understood before sign off. Surely?

Communication is not a particular strength of the club...

[Dames]

5 hours ago, Stadt said:

It’s almost like there should be a higher up role that aligns long term recruitment, squad planning and managerial recruitment

There is but only when things go right.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

20 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I don’t particularly rate either, but Daka was annoying me last night as he very rarely controlled the ball and turned. Nearly every ball that went into him he laid back off.

 

Can’t really take much out of friendlies but we lack so much threat up top and desperately need quality.

I noticed the first part too. 

 

He's trying desperately hard to improve his general all round game and deserves credit for that but he's just not got the technical ability, balance etc to manage basics we should quite frankly take for granted in a pro player, and this isn't about to change.

 

we should have just cut our losses a couple of seasons ago 

[Dan LCFC]

The lone forward point is a big one. He's generally excelled in a two. He's not really got the game for a lone forward role, as much as he's trying to add it.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

8 hours ago, Stadt said:

It’s almost like there should be a higher up role that aligns long term recruitment, squad planning and managerial recruitment

How do you know that for sure though. We shouldn't speculate on this mystery role that we may or may not have at the club. Respect is a big thing in Thailand!

[Stadt]

14 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

How do you know that for sure though. We shouldn't speculate on this mystery role that we may or may not have at the club. Respect is a big thing in Thailand!

It’s not that easy. What other clubs have done what we have?

[jammie82uk]

23 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Do football clubs get audited because if they do, the findings from the signing of Tom Cannon to back up those of Patson Daka and Iheanacho should be enough to report major failings in our operations.

 

All three of them are forwards who excel in a front two and yet we seldom deploy such a system.

You can also include Vardy in this, played as part of a two before joining us and although could do it on his own arguably his better times was with a partner, Nugent, Okazaki, Mahrez, Iheanacho

[adejo92]

23 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I don’t particularly rate either, but Daka was annoying me last night as he very rarely controlled the ball and turned. Nearly every ball that went into him he laid back off.

 

Can’t really take much out of friendlies but we lack so much threat up top and desperately need quality.

Daka is absolute horse sh1t.

 

Keep hearing people making excuses for him.

 

He's been shit in every formation, alongside every team mate and under every manager.

 

He's absolutely honking.

Edited 28 July by adejo92

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, jammie82uk said:

You can also include Vardy in this, played as part of a two before joining us and although could do it on his own arguably his better times was with a partner, Nugent, Okazaki, Mahrez, Iheanacho

Vardy is actually the exception here. When he signed we played with a front two which made sense and he did well in 2013/14 with Nugent. The way his game developed though he became the perfect striker. Whilst Puel's style didn't necessarily suit him he still scored a lot but it was under Rodgers where he truly prospered in a 4-2-3-1. For 18 months he was sensational.

[coolhandfox]

31 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Vardy is actually the exception here. When he signed we played with a front two which made sense and he did well in 2013/14 with Nugent. The way his game developed though he became the perfect striker. Whilst Puel's style didn't necessarily suit him he still scored a lot but it was under Rodgers where he truly prospered in a 4-2-3-1. For 18 months he was sensational.

Bloke a was a phenomenon, somehow we stumble onto an elite level striker.

[Master Fox]

10 hours ago, adejo92 said:

Daka is absolute horse sh1t.

 

Keep hearing people making excuses for him.

 

He's been shit in every formation, alongside every team mate and under every manager.

 

He's absolutely honking.

100% agree 

 

We should really be looking to cash in on Daka while he we still can. We’ve got much better players in his position. 

 

Edited 29 July by Master Fox
I want to elaborate more on the point

[Raj]

10 hours ago, adejo92 said:

Daka is absolute horse sh1t.

 

Keep hearing people making excuses for him.

 

He's been shit in every formation, alongside every team mate and under every manager.

 

He's absolutely honking.

 If people are sticking up for Daka they need to have a word.

He IS sh1t as you have stated.

Has always been Sh1t and Will always be sh1t for us.

You could make a world class compilation of his misses which would make kids cry out with laughter.

 

He's still not as bad as Danny Ward though, who is laughing all the ay to the bank for doing f1ck all.

[Tielemans63]

20 hours ago, Stadt said:

It’s almost like there should be a higher up role that aligns long term recruitment, squad planning and managerial recruitment

Maybe we could give it to one of the academy coaches? There must be someone who is completely unqualified for the role, who would be absolutely ideal.

[CrazyKopCorner]

56 minutes ago, Raj said:

 If people are sticking up for Daka they need to have a word.

He IS sh1t as you have stated.

Has always been Sh1t and Will always be sh1t for us.

You could make a world class compilation of his misses which would make kids cry out with laughter.

 

He's still not as bad as Danny Ward though, who is laughing all the ay to the bank for doing f1ck all.

Yes, that Danny Ward takes the fuching biscuit - costs us a relegation and yet still trots round like he owns the fuching joint. 

 

Appreciate we shouldn't barrack our own players but for him it's difficult not to make him the exception - super shite 

 

If he plays at any point I'll have to walk out and yes I was there at Brighton, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea at home etc when honestly I'd have been better in goal for us 

[CrazyKopCorner]

I watched on a stream on Friday night and I thought we were absolutely dreadful - We played like England.

 

Appreciate it's only a friendly but where are our goals going to come from is my concern. 

[Finnegan]

On 27/07/2024 at 21:25, Fox92 said:

Nearly every ball that went into him he laid back off.

 

... that's what's supposed to happen?

 

You can dislike the tactic all you want but that's just a footballer carrying out instructions. 

 

Our strikers did it all last year. It's a three man move designed to move the ball vertically, quickly. A deeper lying player - Vestergaard or Hermansen ideally but sometimes Winks, slots it forward to someone with their back to goal, usually the striker. That player then lays it back first time to a midfielder. You can even then have the midfielder immediately play a second vertical pass to a forward running in behind, say Mavididi. 

 

Some of our best goals last year came from these patterns of play. 

 

Go watch any Guardiola or Arteta team. See how many times a player receives the ball with back to goal and actually turns on it, especially under any kind of pressure. They just don't. You'll frequently see the likes of Bernardo Silva get the ball from a Stones or Rodri in a wide area and just play the ball back first time instead of turning. 

 

[Jack1993]

1 hour ago, Raj said:

 If people are sticking up for Daka they need to have a word.

He IS sh1t as you have stated.

Has always been Sh1t and Will always be sh1t for us.

You could make a world class compilation of his misses which would make kids cry out with laughter.

 

He's still not as bad as Danny Ward though, who is laughing all the ay to the bank for doing f1ck all.

I take your points on Daka but no need to bring his wife into it mate, unnecessary & unhelpful.

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

... that's what's supposed to happen?

 

You can dislike the tactic all you want but that's just a footballer carrying out instructions. 

 

Our strikers did it all last year. It's a three man move designed to move the ball vertically, quickly. A deeper lying player - Vestergaard or Hermansen ideally but sometimes Winks, slots it forward to someone with their back to goal, usually the striker. That player then lays it back first time to a midfielder. You can even then have the midfielder immediately play a second vertical pass to a forward running in behind, say Mavididi. 

 

Some of our best goals last year came from these patterns of play. 

 

Go watch any Guardiola or Arteta team. See how many times a player receives the ball with back to goal and actually turns on it, especially under any kind of pressure. They just don't. You'll frequently see the likes of Bernardo Silva get the ball from a Stones or Rodri in a wide area and just play the ball back first time instead of turning. 

 

I understand a striker laying it back off if a defender is on him, and generally a Guardiola/Arteta player has an opposition player (sometimes two) straight on him, but it's frustrating to see a striker not turn when he has time and on Friday night Daka had time to control and turn but every ball into him went back again. There was even a time where he played an awful ball back to Mavididi and they had words about it like players do. You're not telling me that it is supposed to happen like this. I didn't really understand what we were playing on Friday but I appreciate it's a new manager with new ideas.

 

But whatever is supposed to happen we offered no threat. Perhaps aside from Fatawu but once he was off nothing. My biggest worry going into this season is scoring goals.