Also in the news

[chapero82]

I was watching sky news2 days ago and the reporter said that yes there is problems both sides but it’s the far right who started it.. this actually disgusted me as both sides are wrong ! 
 

Violence is never going to bring peace and order, the only way to solve this is by listening to people. Which is why the riots have started.

 

 

 

[fox_up_north]

Once this is all over, can we actually have a grown up conversation about immigration, culture clashes and integration please? 

 

I really hope this doesn't give licence to just point the blame at the twats of the country and continue ignoring an issue that has been a concern for donkey's years. 

[HybridFox]

These riots are terrorism plain and simple. Spreading fear, call it what it is. It is NOT a protest 

Edited 6 August by HybridFox

[Benguin]

Has it stopped yet? 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

 

Do the Muslim community really believe that the EDL are in bed with zionists ?? 
Robinson likes to attach himself to the Jewish community and pro Israel groups but he is continually knocked back by organisers and told he isn’t welcome. He comes from a political space where Jews have been traditionally despised. 
 

if the Muslims think that the EDL protests are being manipulated by supporters of Israel (not to say that there aren’t isolated cases) then they’re as deluded as those on the right who have been protesting this week on the back of social media lies.  
 

 

[MPH]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Do the Muslim community really believe that the EDL are in bed with zionists ?? 
Robinson likes to attach himself to the Jewish community and pro Israel groups but he is continually knocked back by organisers and told he isn’t welcome. He comes from a political space where Jews have been traditionally despised. 
 

if the Muslims think that the EDL protests are being manipulated by supporters of Israel (not to say that there aren’t isolated cases) then they’re as deluded as those on the right who have been protesting this week on the back of social media lies.  
 

 

 

in so much that the right wing  conservative government are supporters of Israel and the war against Hamas, probably, yes. Admittedly, it’s possibly a tenuous link.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 August by MPH

[jgtuk]

5 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Do the Muslim community really believe that the EDL are in bed with zionists ?? 
Robinson likes to attach himself to the Jewish community and pro Israel groups but he is continually knocked back by organisers and told he isn’t welcome. He comes from a political space where Jews have been traditionally despised. 
 

if the Muslims think that the EDL protests are being manipulated by supporters of Israel (not to say that there aren’t isolated cases) then they’re as deluded as those on the right who have been protesting this week on the back of social media lies.  
 

 

Pretty sure that the EDL have received 10’s of thousands in funding from far right American pro Israel think tanks in the past and I’ve seen press photos from his visits to Israel, one standing on a tank…

[ARTY_FOX]

46 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Once this is all over, can we actually have a grown up conversation about immigration, culture clashes and integration please? 

 

I really hope this doesn't give licence to just point the blame at the twats of the country and continue ignoring an issue that has been a concern for donkey's years. 

I do think if the the pm put the suggestion of ok we'll have a proper talk about it on the table instead of just labelling everyone as right wing racist thugs it would rapidly de-esculate things. But i also don't think that they want that. I think they want the tension. 

[ealingfox]

6 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

I do think if the the pm put the suggestion of ok we'll have a proper talk about it on the table instead of just labelling everyone as right wing racist thugs it would rapidly de-esculate things. But i also don't think that they want that. I think they want the tension. 

 

We just had an election.

 

What kind of message does it send to immediately give a group that didn't win the election everything they want because they're causing violence and destruction and are threatening to keep doing it if we don't?

[Tommy Fresh]

15 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

I do think if the the pm put the suggestion of ok we'll have a proper talk about it on the table instead of just labelling everyone as right wing racist thugs it would rapidly de-esculate things. But i also don't think that they want that. I think they want the tension. 

Talk about what? Half of them don't even know what they're rioting about

[ARTY_FOX]

15 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

We just had an election.

 

What kind of message does it send to immediately give a group that didn't win the election everything they want because they're causing violence and destruction and are threatening to keep doing it if we don't?

Who said you have to give them everything they want? Just have open talks about it and it takes away the one thing they're running riot about. 

Edited 6 August by ARTY_FOX

[ARTY_FOX]

6 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Talk about what? Half of them don't even know what they're rioting about

Most of them don't care, there's just enough of them to keep it going. Just like the BLM protests, you get opportunists that are there to cause mayhem and aren't remotely bothered as to why. 

[st albans fox]

35 minutes ago, jgtuk said:

Pretty sure that the EDL have received 10’s of thousands in funding from far right American pro Israel think tanks in the past and I’ve seen press photos from his visits to Israel, one standing on a tank…

Yes the mess that is the American right. I had omitted to think about them. What a crazy state USA politics is in. And sadly they can afford to influence politics here directly. 
 

I don’t believe TR receives much support at all from Zionists and Jews in the U.K.  however, the problem comes if people are forced to choose. Do you choose those who overtly appear to wish you ill or those who seem to offer support?  Anyone thinking that the right in this country are friends of semites is merely delaying the inevitable. The facists will always revert to type in the end. 
 

@MPH - I don’t count the Tory govt of the past decade as being ‘right wing’ when it comes to this particular conversation. i think their support for Israel is not based in a disdain for Islam but of Islamism.  There is a huge difference. 
 

 

[ealingfox]

7 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Who said you have to give them everything they want? Just have open talks about it and it takes away the one thing they're running riot about. 

 

Talks saying what though? As I've said we've just had an election, that was the talk. The party that won said they would reduce immigration - you have to give them a chance to implement their democratic mandate.

[ARTY_FOX]

1 minute ago, ealingfox said:

 

Talks saying what though? As I've said we've just had an election, that was the talk. The party that won said they would reduce immigration - you have to give them a chance to implement their democratic mandate.

Talks about the issues at hand. Instead of pouring gasoline on the fire, starve it of oxygen. He's refused to call parliament to discuss it. Why? 

 

They want the divide. 

[st albans fox]

Note that sinwar has taken full control of Hamas now with the the announcement that he has assumed (taken?)  political control as leader of the movement. 
 

this will likely make any ceasefire in Gaza nigh on impossible - the hostages are pretty much the only thing keeping him from   death via Israeli flooding of the tunnels. Any agreement where he has to give them up without guarantees that Israel withdraws and does not renew its attacks won’t be agreed upon. Netenyahu won’t go for that either. 

[ealingfox]

1 minute ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Talks about the issues at hand. Instead of pouring gasoline on the fire, starve it of oxygen. He's refused to call parliament to discuss it. Why? 

 

They want the divide. 

 

What is being said in these talks? Be more specific.

 

Again, why should he or anyone else pander to this violence and intimidation?

 

Do you think what these people have been doing is justified?

[ARTY_FOX]

Just now, ealingfox said:

 

What is being said in these talks? Be more specific.

 

Again, why should he or anyone else pander to this violence and intimidation?

 

Do you think what these people have been doing is justified?

Nothing at the moment they're not having them? Just discuss immigration. If its something they are going to address anyway why not do it now and help stop whats going on? 

 

Obviously not. Do you? 

[ealingfox]

1 minute ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Nothing at the moment they're not having them? Just discuss immigration. If its something they are going to address anyway why not do it now and help stop whats going on? 

 

Obviously not. Do you? 

 

I'm not the one making excuses for it?

[Wymsey]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

Once this is all over, can we actually have a grown up conversation about immigration, culture clashes and integration please? 

 

I really hope this doesn't give licence to just point the blame at the twats of the country and continue ignoring an issue that has been a concern for donkey's years. 

That can happen on here, at least, now..

Edited 6 August by Wymsey

[ARTY_FOX]

Just now, ealingfox said:

 

I'm not the one making excuses for it?

What excuse have I made? 

[ealingfox]

1 minute ago, ARTY_FOX said:

What excuse have I made? 

 

That because the Government hasn't opened what would be entirely unjustified and democratically illegitimate 'talks' with them they can and will keep going.

 

You agree then that they should stop immediately without any concessions being made to them?

[ARTY_FOX]

Just now, ealingfox said:

 

That because the Government hasn't opened what would be entirely unjustified and democratically illegitimate 'talks' with them they can and will keep going.

 

You agree then that they should stop immediately without any concessions being made to them?

At what point did I say they should talk to them and if they don't they should keep going?

 

I think parliament should be called and parliament should discuss things. Its quite simple. 

 

The idiots running around battering a Greggs window havent got anything to give up bar free gingerbread men and yes I think they should give them up like any sane person. 

[Lionator]

In my daily life, I see British Muslims far more ‘integrated’ (whatever that means) these days compared to 10 to 20 years ago. I have Muslim colleagues in the office that are sound, I see Muslims on my countryside walks, I see them watching cricket and supporting football teams. In fact my biggest gripe is that most Muslim lads I know support the rich teams rather than their local teams. Disgusting. 
 

Immigration levels are unsustainable (we all know that) and we need to develop our economic model in a way that doesn’t have to rely on migration from abroad, but the integration question is a red herring. We are far better than at any point in the past. 

[ealingfox]

9 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

At what point did I say they should talk to them and if they don't they should keep going?

 

I think parliament should be called and parliament should discuss things. Its quite simple. 

 

The idiots running around battering a Greggs window havent got anything to give up bar free gingerbread men and yes I think they should give them up like any sane person. 

 

You brought up talks several times, mentioning first that it would rapidly de-escalate things, the obvious implication being that it won't de-escalate if they don't do talks. So if it's not justified either way why couldn't you just say they have to stop?

 

And this is far more serious than idiots battering a Greggs, and you know it.

Edited 6 August by ealingfox